In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
Video of 70 year old disabled Vet with cane shot
capgun
Member Posts: 1,848 ✭
The department said the shooting was justified as the officer feared for his life. Kinda looks like the officer was still behind the cover of his vehicle, and the old guy had the cane on the ground in walking position when shot. There were no commands to drop the weapon to the driver before the shooting. http://www.kfiam640.com/onair/gary-hoffmann-11314/police-shoot-70year-old-man-with-12151350
Comments
But i could see mistaking it for a gun.
I don't think they told him get out of the truck either, that didn't work in his favor or help reasure he was not looking to get hostile.
We can all sit looking at our computers and criticize the ofcrs action after viewing the video 10 times. The cop only got one chance to see it unfold. I suspect there are several people here who would have reacted the same way.
The cop clearly made a mistake when he saw the cane and thought it was a rifle. When he realized his mistake, he was very emotionally upset and went to render aid to the man. I suspect he may not want to continue in police work.
We can all sit looking at our computers and criticize the ofcrs action after viewing the video 10 times. The cop only got one chance to see it unfold. I suspect there are several people here who would have reacted the same way.
Hopefully those people who would have reacted the same way are not police officers. I had no trouble seeing what was occurring the first time I viewed the video.
I came scarily close once, through a combination of bad circumstances on an occasion when I was pulled over for minor speeding. The Cop had a ride-along. When our cars had stopped, the Cop gave me instructions through his PA system, but I couldn't make them out because I am functionally deaf. So I pulled my keys and exited my vehicle, holding my hands well away from my body, and approached his car. But as I did this, the Cop had been distracted by his ride-along, and when he looked up, I was no longer in my vehicle, but I was approaching his car, with something shiny in my right hand. He drew down on me.
We got things straightened out, but I think I ruined his day. He was still nervous as we talked.
For Cops, it's life on a damned tightrope. In any face-to-face with a Cop, we need to think of ways to meet him halfway on that.
We have to pragmatically admit, even though we absolutely hate it, that shiiite is sometimes going to happen.
I hope the $100 the state was going to get for a traffic infraction was worth all of this.
WOW. That Police office was really upset. He knew he had made a grave error in judgement and will have to live with it the rest of his life.That was an accident in my judgement on both parties.I really feel for the officer as well as the man shot.
he just needs to become a member here, a few resident leo's will be by shortly and make excuses that will justify it, and convince him his life was in danger, it was SOP, he was uninformed etc etc
Police shoot 70 yo reaching for cane
http://forums.GunBroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=626707
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I can use the PA to direct the driver to a side street, parking lot, or other safe location if traffic is heavy. I want the driver and passengers to remain seated in the car, hands visible.
No one ever offered to whip my butt or run away while sitting in a car.
I have known officers who would have the violator come back to the police car and sit in the front seat, unfrisked, while the citation was being written. I ain't doing that one either.
quote:Originally posted by Alpine
quote:Originally posted by Flying Clay Disk
Is that a law? "never get out of your vehicle?"
Punishable by death or deadly force without a trail and/or a jury???
Is that printed in BIG RED letters on your Drivers License application?
Where does it say any of this?
"Common Sense" would seem to dictate that people are required to be informed...and that would include being informed about the subject one is shooting at!
It has been taught to patrol for as long as I was working. All the studies show it is safer for the officer to have the people stay in the car. Not only for officer safety but for the driver also (so traffic does not run them over at the other drivers attention is riveted on the lights and steers into them). The only time you would remove occupants of a car is to identify them of if you plan to search the vehicle.
Above all make sure your hands are visible to the officer at all times. If you have to reach for something let them know. Last time I was stopped (over 10 years ago) I put both hands out the window with palms showing to the officer. We had a great conversation and parted without any paperwork.
The old guy hobbled out of the car, and took the cane in one hand, not in any manner like you would hold a rifle. Even in the video, that cane did not look like any kind of rifle. The officer kept shooting him as he stood with the cane on the ground, like you would use a cane. The officer yelled drop the gun as he ran up to the guy who was still holding "the gun", and it was clear it was a cane. Do you buy that? At that point I think the officer was trying to build his case for shooting the guy. The department said the the officer operated within the guidelines for the use of deadly force. What happened to identify "identify your target"? In other words, according to this department an officer with poor judgement can fear for his life at the least perception of a threat and use deadly force against innocent citizens.
It has been proven many times that when in what one perceives as a life threatning event military, cops etc people will continue to pull the trigger almost involuntarily. heck even people shoot dang dear 68 times without noticing. Ever told a hunter why did you shoot 3 times, "I did." So I dont think he was trying to build a case by doing that.
Now IMO i think the officer made an error he definitely did. But by his reaction whichw as undelayed it seemed to be an error without malice. Now as far punishment I dont know.
The old guy hobbled out of the car, and took the cane in one hand, not in any manner like you would hold a rifle. Even in the video, that cane did not look like any kind of rifle. The officer kept shooting him as he stood with the cane on the ground, like you would use a cane. The officer yelled drop the gun as he ran up to the guy who was still holding "the gun", and it was clear it was a cane. Do you buy that? At that point I think the officer was trying to build his case for shooting the guy. The department said the the officer operated within the guidelines for the use of deadly force. What happened to identify "identify your target"? In other words, according to this department an officer with poor judgement can fear for his life at the least perception of a threat and use deadly force against innocent citizens.
If this is within their department guidelines, then I think they really need to re-look at their department guidelines and training and quickly before tis happens again.
As for the officer, i don't think he should be put back in the field as this may cost him his life in a future incident where he may be second guessing himself.
As for the LEO on this board defending this, please know that I have had the privilege of working with may fine officers and agents over my many years as a technical adviser to the the drug task force, I know they would not in any way defend this shooting. I think this all comes to inadequate training that this officer had.
With the lighting that the camera had. It didn't look like the man did anything threatening. Maybe the officer did not get as good a vantage point as the camera did. I give the cop props for being genuinely upset about the incident.
I hope the $100 the state was going to get for a traffic infraction was worth all of this.
The more I think about it. The more I realize he saw everything just fine.