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Body armor question
ElMuertoMonkey
Member Posts: 12,898
I figure y'all will get a laugh out of this.
So I was having a discussion about firearms and some dude basically says that some body armor is better than none. I say if it's a Level II vest against .308, you might as well be wearing a T-shirt.
His response?
The body armor will slow it down enough to make a difference and that all you have to do is be far away enough from it to have the .308's speed drop down to a manageable level because if it is travelling as fast as a 9mm, it will be just as easily stopped as a 9mm. And even if you're not, the fibers in the vest will prevent the bullet from expanding as much, resulting in less damage.
This is what I have to deal with out in California...[xx(]
So I was having a discussion about firearms and some dude basically says that some body armor is better than none. I say if it's a Level II vest against .308, you might as well be wearing a T-shirt.
His response?
The body armor will slow it down enough to make a difference and that all you have to do is be far away enough from it to have the .308's speed drop down to a manageable level because if it is travelling as fast as a 9mm, it will be just as easily stopped as a 9mm. And even if you're not, the fibers in the vest will prevent the bullet from expanding as much, resulting in less damage.
This is what I have to deal with out in California...[xx(]
Comments
If a body armor plate is rated at .308 WIN, then it will theoretically stop a .308 at less than 10 feet.
while this is true in the abstract, in this situation its not. the discussion was regarding the effectiveness of a level II vest stopping a .308. not a III or IIIa.
No brain; no pain I guess.....
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y280/SFC_Hall/soldiers.jpg
Hell, I'd try to put the planet Earth between me and that bullet if at all possible![:p]
No, this guy's assertion was that even a vest rated for pistol rounds would slow a rifle round sufficiently to make a difference.
What vehicle is that? An LAV series?
SFC,
What vehicle is that? An LAV series?
Looks to me like a Stryker.
Zulu7,
Hell, I'd try to put the planet Earth between me and that bullet if at all possible![:p]
No, this guy's assertion was that even a vest rated for pistol rounds would slow a rifle round sufficiently to make a difference.
Next time you see him, call him an f-ing retard, because if a vest isn't rated for a certain caliber, then the vest won't stop said caliber. You might as well be wearing, like you said, a t-shirt. Tell him that a combat vet agrees with you.
Will do![;)][:D]
Except you have no muscles. Sometime you'll have to meet my buddy Nick. He'll show you what muscles are...puny.
There's muscles for show and then there's muscles for work. I'm a finely tuned Air Force fighting and killing machine.
I think the guy makes a good point actually; while you are right about the T-shirt analogy, there's more to it than that. You're arguing apples and oranges.
Obviously light armor isn't going to stop direct hits by heavy ammunition, but that certainly doesn't make it worthless.
As a simple counter-example, most military forces aren't fielding .308s anymore, and as Nunn says, low level armor CAN help with smaller rounds like .223. Most police officers don't get shot with .308 rifles, they got shot with handguns. (And probably more of them get shot with .22LR rifles than with .308 rifles).
Apart from stopping pistol rounds, light armor will reduce or prevent stab injuries, shotgun injuries, and stop shrapnel (which not incidentally can be generated from near miss rifle rounds). It can reduce blast or impact injury (eg from a car crash).
As the guy says, it may also stop rifle rounds that have slowed down due to distance. More important, it can help with rounds that have ricocheted or passed through an intermediate target before striking you (eg your car door.
The point is, if you are expecting trouble light armor probably *is* better than no armor.
- Well, yea, that should be true
"the fibers in the vest will prevent the bullet from expanding as much, resulting in less damage"
- I don't know about this one.
If I were to know I'd be in a gunfight soon, and someone offered me a IIa vest, I'd take it.
Now if I were to know I'd be in a gunfight soon against a guy with a Socom II with a holo sight, I'd forget the vest, it will just weigh me down.
Realistically, the range you will need to have in between you and the rifle, way to far to make a difference, especially if the enemy's weapon isn't scoped.
If he is putting rounds on target at that distance, the rounds are still going to go right through your vest.
It might help when hiding behind an obstical that a .308 can only marginally penetrate.
Additionally, there is bullet expansion, but also the hydrostatic shock wave that forms a temporary cavity (leaving shredded flesh when it closes). The vest may slow the bullet down and reduce the size of this cavity, but would it do so any more than say, a bed matress?
It may be better, but insignificantly so. Just like in theory a T-shirt will slightly reduce the bullet velocity.
Realistically, it won't make a difference.
I say you are both right
quote:Originally posted by Zulu7
Except you have no muscles. Sometime you'll have to meet my buddy Nick. He'll show you what muscles are...puny.
There's muscles for show and then there's muscles for work. I'm a finely tuned Air Force fighting and killing machine.
I did not know it was possible to use those words in the same sentance!
You are definatly funny Cat![:o)][:D]
Check out Future weapons on TV
Moose
Now, that WAS a while ago, and vests may have changed, but non-rotating slender pointy things went thru a lot of vest material. Bullets, having a high rate of spin, tend to grab the vest and pull on the layers of material. A stilleto, poinard, or icepick, on the other hand....They definitely decrease the odds of injury from knives. I know an officer who was shanked multiple times in the stomach while wearing a IIA. He thought the guy was just punching him.