Another Peal Habor?

Robin

Save the newspaper announcing today's terrorist attack, it mirrors Japan's cowardly act of December 7, 1941 . I submit to you that this will be remembered with equal distain for generations to come.This is another wake up call, I hope the "sleeping giant" can wake up with plenty of moral fortitude and resolve.We need to get our heads out of the sand and fight fire with overwelming fire. More innocent people will certainly be adversely affected in many parts of the world but the head of this terrorist snake must be cut off ASAP. We must control our own destiny.Some of the bleeding heart, liberal civil servants may call on patriotic gun owners before this chapter is closed. Robin

Josey1

This was absolutely a "Pearl Harbor attack which requires a definitive and absolute military response by the US government.The time to talk is over,there may be more casulties in this ACT OF WAR than in Pearl Harbor,possibly even Vietnam in which 55000 americans died.

luger01

Damn right Robin. This was a total and undeniable act of war.The US MUST use any and all of its resources to exterminate the yellow-bellied cowards who both perpitrate and support such acts.Anyone who is involved with these hideous events, whether by actual deed, financial, or even moral support deserves death!The perps have no idea what they are awakening. They are condemning thier brothers - the Palestinians, the Iraquis, etc. - to anhilation. The US and it's strong citizens WILL overcome the acts of pissants.Every one of us needs to make ready to answer the call for freedom and be prepared to suffer while we once again eradicate the dregs of the world from existance.

mudge

Here's my simple solution.....Find out who the scum is.....Bomb 'em back to the stone age.Mudge

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Anyone who CAN carry, SHOULD carry!

hacker

"I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resove." -Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, Dec. 7, 1941

rsnyder55

This was not like Pearl Harbor.Pearl Harbor was against a military installation, not a civilian city.Pearl Harbor was the result of an embargo placed around Japan by the United States.Pearl Harbor was in response to the US Military buildup at Pearl Harbor.Pearl Harbor was decried to be an act of infamy because it was done before a declaration of war was officially submitted.How does the attack on civilians at a non-military target compare to this?Do not equate this to anything other than a cowardly terrorist act!![This message has been edited by rsnyder55 (edited 09-11-2001).]

Josey1

This was an act of WAR,true it is not comparible to Pearl Harbor,IT'S WORSE.This was perpetuated on our mainland againt civilians as we as our military(The Pentagon).Is this the equal of Pearl Harbor no,It is ten times worse.

Robin

Dear rsyder55,Not that it really matters, but there are a lot of similarities and differences between todays terrorist attack and the Japanese attack 60 years ago. I'll try to point out a few. Correct me if I'm wrong.Similarities:1. Both were a surprise attack. Both were cowardly acts. I see no difference in attacking a military presence that you are not at war with or attacking a defenseless, unsupecting civilian presence. 2. Many of today's terrorist don't make a distiction between the U. S. Military, U.S. business interests or U. S. civilians. In the past ten years, all of the above have been targets of acts of war by several groups. The pick of a particular target appears to be a target that is accessable, available and high profile. Therefore the targets were similar to our respective enemies.3. I'll bet many groups feel as though an embargo has been placed around them as a result of our treaties and arms sales to Israel. We have isolated, rightfully so, many extremists that hate our way of life and way of governing. That is a constuctive embargo in my book. Iraq, Iran, Cuba, and Lybia deal with more structured embargos and a no fly zone.4. Our country's position on the arms build up during the current Palistinian/Israel conflict must certainly be an element in the thought process leading to this terrorist act. If you live in Palistine this would be perceived as a military build up right in their back yard.5. Both incidents were allowed to happen because our intellegence gathering community did not do their job. Tools were and are in place to avoid both the Peal Harbor bombing and the World Towers attack. I hear the figure of $30 billion spent on antiterrorist intellegence gathering since the last World Towers bombing. How much is wasted on watching honest, law abiding gun owners? We aren't getting our money's worth!Differences:1. There was approximately 2,700 deaths at Pearl Harbor. Initial reports indicate today's terrorist attacks will result in a greater loss of life. Causualties? Monetary, indexed for inflation, will result in a higher dollar loss when all things are considered.2. Some of the 28 groups listed on the State Department's "terrorist list" have declared war on all U. S. interests. We just don't listen. We don't declare war on the groups because it legitimizes their causes. How many groups will take credit for today's attack is yet to be seen.3. The war against terrorists is one against groups or cells of individuals opposed to our way of life. Some of these groups may be State sponsored but most have no official ties. Global guerrilla warfare, waged by unorganized groups with the same goal, is much different than Japan's dream of conquering countries rich in natural resources.4. At Pearl, Japanese planes bombed us. Today in New York, the enemy used U.S. planes to bomb our country.5. Japan used suicide pilots near the end of WWII, this enemy started a war with suicide bombers. Let us not forget that in former desperate times, we purposely attacked large civilian targets. Many times in Europe and Japan, with conventional weapons, and twice in Japan with nuclear weapons. History indicates the use of the nuclear weapons in 1945 saved countless lives because an invasion of Japan was avoided and toned down Stalin's interest in challenging the U.S. presence in Europe.Everything should be viewed from the perspective of the interested party. I'm interested in the well being of my country no matter what it takes.If there was ever a case to consider use of tactical nuclear weapons, this may be it. We, as U. S. citizens, need to get every thing in one sack and wind this anti U. S. hate crap once and for all. Then let's get elected officials in office that are in touch with what is going on in the real world.God help us all to deal with this and what will follow. Robin

duster68

Agreed. Thanks Josie and Snyder for your intelligent, lucid responses. Let's not forget that finding those responsible will be extremely difficult. It's far easier to rush to judgement. Can't tell you how many times I heard Bin-Ladin's name come up while listening to the news this morning. Seems reasonable to me that he had something to do with this, but can we go in and flatten Afganistan in response? No. What about the Palestinian connection? Anyone see footage of jubilant Palestinians dancing in the streets of West Bank towns celebrating? Lately we've sure had lots of crazies blowing themselves up along with innocent civilians all over Israel. If it turned out to be HAMAS or the PFLP, how do we retaliate against them? Flatten Nabulus, Hebron, East Jerusalem, or any neighborhood mosque in sight? No. It kind of reminds me of how Israel has been responding to terrorist attacks on it's soil. Guys blows himself up in crowded restaurant without warning killing women and children. Israel responds with a precise hit on a terrorist office or person, often with advance warning to spare the lives of innocent civilians. Who gets criticized for being too harsh in their response. Israel. Of couse they'd flatten a few towns if they could, but they can't. If the best Israel can do (given it's superior intelligence) is a surgical strike on a few "known" perpetrators, can you imagine how hard it will be for the U.S. to find out who is responsible for this? Iraq, Iran, Syria, Bin Ladin, Libya, any of a thousand extremist groups that have proclaimed death to Americans???? Could be any one of these groups, or several working together. Man, like all of you, I hope we do find those resonsible. Let's just be patient and let them find the right ones.

mlincoln

This whole thing just makes my stomach turn. I can't look at the TV anymore, seeing all that death and destruction. The US must act and act severly. We must do something that the rest of the world will remember forever. Quite honestly, if the President started talking about a limited nuclear strike, I'd have no problems with it. The people who carried out this attack are dead, but the people who planned it are not. We know who the players are. It's time to take off the kid gloves and turn the CIA loose again. America can turn out some good killers, and it's time to let them make this country safe again.

Iconoclast

Hey Duster -"Iraq, Iran, Syria, Bin Ladin, Libya, any of a thousand extremist groups that have proclaimed death to Americans????" My answer, although admittedly simplistic, to your question: "Kill 'em all & let Allah sort them out." If they proclaim death to Americans, enough of this Carteresque "love thine enemy" BS - it didn't work, but we tried, now we give them exactly what they asked for.

thesupermonkey

I've take then liberty of converting this thread to many common dialects... choose the one that's best for you Red NecksJive TurkeysPiglatin

cbxjeff

Guys,I pretty new to the board. I served in the army in the mid 60's. I'm no hero. It pisses me off by what this country is going to. What will Bush do? Will we go to a peace table, like we have for the last 20 years? Or will we finaly say enough is enough. If I was younger, I would re-up.Jeff

in2b8u

I thought that I was furious when I saw the photo's of the USS Cole returning home with a gaping hole in her side. That was nothing compared to what I felt today. I am tired of hearing the media call this a TERRORIST attack. This was a collective, strategic act of war. This was an act of mass destruction, and they did not have to spend a dime of their own money except to train a few pilots(do you know why they chose 757 767's? exact same cocpit, clever huh?). Even with all the media coverage of NY and DC the thing that enraged me most was the exuberant celebration of the Palastanian nation (sp?). If I would have had my hand on an aircraft carrier I would have leveled that country, and never thought twice about it! The only reason that country is not an Isreali nation is that we are the ones that have kept the reigns on Isreal. My thought now is to release the hounds. The enemy of my friends is an enemy of mine. I'll bet there are more than a few bedwetting libs tonight that wish they were sleeping with a firearm. God Bless those who lost their lives today, my prayers and thoughts go to those who lost their lives going into harms way to save those who had already perished at the hands of cowards.

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If guns cause crime, all mine are defective.

cbxjeff

in2b82,I have always thought that if any of those scudd's had ever hit downtown Tel Aviv that we would had not ever fired a shot in the Gulf War. We are so obsessed with diplomocy that we are inept. Sorry for the spelling - I'm too mad to spell!Jeff

luger01

Friends,As satisfying as massive bombing or using tacticle nukes would be, none of that would solve anything.There is only one way to stop all of this madness and terrorism. It's part of the logic of football - the best defense is a good offense.The U.S. has got to start eliminating terrorists by assisination and sactioning hits and paying well for them.Only by eliminating the radicals can the back of terrorism be broken. We need to begin acting like this is war and everything be damned. Kill the enemy by all means possible, but cause the minimal amount of collateral death and destruction. Civilians may or may not be participants in terrorist organizatiopns, just like civilians may or may not have been V.C. in 'Nam. Nevertheless, eliminating the main terrorists will cause the lessor one to hide like beaten dogs under their rocks. Take away the blood and energy, and the rest is nothing but pathetic pond scum.Our President needs to get a strong anti-terrorist organization started that works around the world and wrecks havoc in all places where the perps are. Americans MUST support out government in this, as well.

Lowrider

For God's sake, let's get some security back on our borders.We've let so many so-called political refugees into this country, given them a date for a hearing, only to never see them again, we don't know who's here, where they are, what they're up to...If our military can't secure the borders of this nation, we may as well give up right now.

Evil ATF

I believe they already exist.They're refered to as SEALs, and all we have to do is open the door of their cage.

driver_hole

luger's right , put people inside these organizations and use a few well placed slugs . for the right price , one of their own will turn . you cannot defend against this type of warfare , all flights originated in the U.S. we will prevail , God bless & help U.S.

luger01

Evil,On target, as usual.I'd like to see whatever group designated to do the assasinations be NOT answerable to Congress and the many bleeders (bleeding heart liberals) there. Only by functioning as a semi-autonomous group could they be really effective.They would need to be funded in a manner that Congress couldn't stop (like several other organizations and projects are).

bradf111

Be MAD! Be ANGRY! But let's all do something constructive RIGHT NOW!Get off our duffs and go out and donate blood!Then come home and punch some more keys.

in2b8u

Does anybody know todays date?????????Thats right 911

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If guns cause crime, all mine are defective.

Patrick Odle

If david can end a war with a sling and a simple stone I say we can rid the world of militant arabs and after today defineatly should. my spelling is not so good either when im as pi--#%&d as I am. MAY THE HEAVENLY FATHER SHOW MERCY TO ALL WHO DIED IN THE COWARDLY MURDERS TODAY. THE GUILTLESSTHAT IS .And may the devil twist his fork when he sticks those that planned and carried out this senseless attact on innocentpeople.

5db

in2b8u, I agree with the celebrating Palestinians causing me much grief. Arafat says one thing yet his people act and say another. Bush said this was a national tragedy, that is reflective of all Americans. I wonder why the difference? Maybe Arafat is not the leader we accept him as.luger01, as you might well know, there is some law (maybe a US law) that prohibits the assassinations of leaders of organizations we are at odds with. It was recently (Klintons era) tossed around as too restrictive, yet was left intact. I believe it should be amended. Then we should let our boys go to work!

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If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website

Robin

I believe all patroits realize the terrorist acts of September 11,2001 must and will be avenged. Our country as a whole will demand it. We must also think ahead about unleashing forces unaccountable to civil authority as some suggest.After this mess is some what straightened out, it could be that same uncontrolled force that knocks on your door to confiscate your guns in the name of preserving democracy. Our nation is more than strong enough to answer this threat. Hopefully it can be done without sacrificing American's contitutional rights. After all our constitutional rights are the true source of our strength. We should all renew our dedication to elect the best people we can to run this great country. Most of us, me included, don't work hard enough to do this. Fact is we are to a great extent, complacent. The framework is in place, we can take control.To be an American citizen is truely a previledge we often allow ourselves to overlook. We routinely grant most of these rights to most anyone that shows up at our borders. A good start on rooting out terrorists in America would be restrict access to those who shouldn't be here in the first place. Sure, some innocent people will be denied the opportunity our immigrant forefathers enjoyed, but preserving our country seems paramount.Like most Americans my inclination is to identify all areas that have offered support to this or other anti U. S. groups and reduce their homeland to a gravel pit, but that simply won't work.

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Worry is the interest humans pay on the debt of miscalculation.