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The Truth about Bio/Chem Agents (long but very impressive)

dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
Words of Wisdom from an Armor MasterSince the media has decided to scare everyone with predictions of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf, I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert. My name is Red Thomas, and I live in Mesa, Arizona.Lesson number one: In the middle 1990's, there were a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. The television news show, 60 Minutes, once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people, well he didn't tell you the thousand deaths per drop were theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerated how terrible this stuff was to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too).Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (read this sentence again out loud!). These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die. This is far less scary than the media and their "Experts," make it sound. Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and Incapacitating agents. Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians they are not weapons of mass destruction; they are "Area denial," and terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area, you almost always leave the risk. That's the difference. You can leave the area and the risk. Soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it, and that's why they need all that spiffy gear.These are not gasses; they are vapors and/or air borne particles. The agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill or injure, and that defines when and how it's used. Every day we have a morning and evening inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day. Therefore, a chemical attack will have its best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise or sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles they are heavier than air, so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, nor will it last long when it's hot or the wind spreads it too thin, too fast. They've got to get this stuff on you, or get you to inhale it for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or wound you. Too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to do with military grade agents and equipment. Therefore, you can imagine how hard it will be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff the more you realize how hard it is to use. That being said, lets look at the hazards in detail.Nerve Agents. You have these in your house; plain old bug killer (like Raid) is nerve agent. All nerve agents work the same way; they are cholinesterase inhibitors that mess up the signals your nervous system uses to make your body function. It can harm you if you get it on your skin but it works best if they can get you to inhale it. If you don't die in the first minute and you can leave the area you're probably going to live.The military's antidote for all nerve agents is Atropine and Pralidoxime Chloride. Neither one of these does anything to cure the nerve agent, they send your body into overdrive to keep you alive for five minutes, after that the agent is used up. Your best protection is fresh air and staying calm.Some of the symptoms for nerve agent poisoning are, sudden headache, dimness of vision (someone you're looking at will have pinpointed pupils), runny nose, excessive saliva or drooling, difficulty breathing, tightness in chest, nausea, stomach cramps and twitching of exposed skin where a liquid came in contact with it.If you are in public and you start experiencing these symptoms, first ask yourself, did anything out of the ordinary just happen, a loud pop, did someone spray something on the crowd? Are other people getting sick too? Is there an odor of new mown hay, green corn, something fruity or camphor where it shouldn't be? If the answer is yes, then calmly (if you panic you breathe faster and inhale more air and poison) leave the area and head up wind or outside.Fresh air is the best, "right now antidote." If you have a blob of liquid that looks like molasses or Karo Syrup on you, blot or scrape it off and away from yourself with anything disposable. This stuff works based on your body weight, what a crop duster uses to kill bugs won't hurt you unless you stand there and breathe it in real deep, then lick the residue off the ground for while. Remember they have to do all the work, they have to get the concentration up and keep it up for several minutes while all you have to do is quit getting it on you and quit breathing it. The best way to achieve this is by putting space between you and the attack.Blood Agents. These agents are cyanide or arsine, which effect your blood's ability to provide oxygen to your tissue. The scenario for attack would be the same as nerve agent. Look for a pop or someone splashing or spraying something, and folks around there getting woozy or falling down. The telltale smells are bitter almonds or garlic where it shouldn't be. The symptoms are blue lips, blue under the fingernails rapid breathing. The military's antidote is Amyl Nitride, and just like nerve agent antidote it just keeps your body working for five minutes until the toxins are used up. Fresh air is the your best individual chance.Blister Agents. Blister agents, such as distilled mustard, are so nasty that nobody wants to even handle it, let alone use it. It's almost impossible to handle safely and may have delayed effect of up to 12 hours. The attack scenario is also limited to the things you'd see from other chemicals. If you do get large, painful blisters for no apparent reason, don't pop them. If you must, don't let the liquid from the blister get on any other area because the stuff just keeps on spreading. It's just as likely to harm the user as the target. Soap, water, sunshine, and fresh air are blister agents enemy.Bottom line on chemical weapons (it's the same if they use industrial chemical spills) they are intended to make you panic, to terrorize you, to herd you like sheep to the wolves. If there is an attack, leave the area and go upwind or to the sides of the wind stream. They have to get the stuff to you, and on you. You're more likely to be hurt by a drunk driver on any given day than be hurt by one of these attacks. Your odds get better if you leave the area. Soap, water, time, and fresh air really deal this stuff a knock-out-punch. Don't let fear of an isolated attack rule your life. The odds are really on your side.Nuclear Bombs. These are the only weapons of mass destruction on earth. The effects of a nuclear bomb are heat, blast, EMP and radiation. If you see a bright flash of light like the sun, where the sun isn't, fall to the ground immediately! The heat will be over in a second. Then there will be two blast waves, one going out, and one on coming back. Don't stand up to see what happened after the first wave; anything that's going to happen will have happened in two full minutes.These will be low yield devices and will not level whole cities. If you live through the heat, blast and initial burst of radiation, you'll probably live for a very long time. Radiation will not create fifty-foot tall women or giant ants and grasshoppers the size of tanks. These will be at the most 1-kiloton bombs; that's the equivalent of 1,000 tons of TNT. Here's the real deal: flying debris and radiation will kill a lot of exposed (though not all!) people within a half mile of the blast. Under perfect conditions this is about a half-mile circle of death and destruction, but when it's done it's done.EMP stands for Electro Magnetic Pulse and it will fry every electronic device for a good distance, it's impossible to say what and how far, but probably not over a couple of miles from ground zero is a good guess. Cars, cell phones, computers, ATMs, you name it; all will be out of order. There are lots of kinds of radiation, none of which are worth the problems connected with worrying about anything. You only need to concern yourself with three, the others you have lived with for years.You need to concern yourself about "ionizing radiation." These are little sub atomic particles that go whizzing along at the speed of light. They hit individual cells in your body, kill the nucleus and keep on going. That's how you get radiation poisoning, you have so many dead cells in your body that the decaying cells poison you. It's the same as people getting radiation treatments for cancer, only a bigger area gets radiated. The good news is you don't have to just sit there and take it. There are a lot of things you can do rather than panic.First, your skin will stop alpha particles, a page of a newspaper or your clothing will stop beta particles, you must try to avoid inhaling dust that's contaminated with atoms that are emitting these things, and you'll be generally safe from them.Gamma rays are particles that travel like rays (quantum physics makes my brain hurt) and create the same damage as alpha and beta particles. The difference is, they keep going and kill even more cells as they travel completely through your body. It takes a lot to stop these things. Lots of dense material. On the other hand, it takes a lot of them to kill you. Your defense is as always to not panic.Basic hygiene and normal preparation are your friends. All canned or frozen food is safe to eat. The radiation poisoning will not effect plants so fruits and vegetables are OK as long as there's no dust on them (if there is, rinse them off). If you don't have running water and you need to collect rainwater or use water from some other source. Just let it stand for thirty minutes, then skim the water gently from the top. The dust with the bad stuff in it will settle and the remaining water can be used for the toilet, which will still work if you have a bucket of water to pour in the tank.Biological Warfare. This is the last one, and there's not much to cover here. Basic personal hygiene and sanitation will take you farther than a million doctors will. Wash your hands often, don't share drinks, food, sloppy kisses, etc., ... with strangers. Keep a tight lid on your garbage can and don't have standing water (like old buckets, ditches, or kiddy pools) lying around to allow mosquitoes breeding room. A vector, which is a bug, a rodent or contaminated material, carries this stuff. If biological warfare is as easy as the TV makes it sound, why has Saddam Hussein spent twenty years and millions upon millions of dollars trying to get it right?If you're clean of person and home, you eat well, and you are active, you're gonna live. Overall preparation for any terrorist attack needs to be the same you would take for a big storm. If you want a gas mask, fine, go get one. I know this stuff and I'm not getting one. I've also told my Mom not to bother with one (how's that for confidence). We have a week's worth of cash, several days' worth of canned goods and plenty of soap and water. We don't leave stuff out to attract bugs or rodents, so we don't have them.Those terrorists can't conceive a nation this big with this many resources. These weapons are made to cause panic, terror, and to demoralize. If we don't run around like sheep, they won't use this stuff. Especially after they find out that it's no fun.The government is going nuts over these concerns, because they have to protect every inch of America. You only have to protect yourself. By doing that, you help the country. Finally, there are millions of caveats to everything that I've written here, and you can probably think up specific scenarios where my advice isn't the best. This letter is supposed to help the greatest number of people under the greatest number of situations. If you don't like my work, don't nit pick, just sit down and explain chemical, nuclear, and biological warfare in a document around three pages long yourself. This is how we, the people of the United States, can rob these people of their most desired goal, your terror.SFC Red Thomas (Ret) Armor Master Gunner Mesa, AZReproduction and distribution is authorized and encouraged. Just give me credit for my work.COURAGE:Courage isn't the absence of fear. It's seeing the possibility of your demise and doing your work anyway.
Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!

Comments

  • Matt45Matt45 Member Posts: 3,185
    edited November -1
    Outstanding Sarge! I feel like I just went through another 10 weeks of NBC School! There were a couple of things in there I had forgotten about.
    Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
  • spclarkspclark Member Posts: 408
    edited November -1
    Thankyou Sir; if the media would post this kind of material - instead of the $()^&% about isolated incidents of purported contamination or hints of threats - we'd ALL be better off & less likely to panic.IMHO our mainstream Media is as much a terrorist threat as any other organized, self-interested group of misguided individuals.
  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Deheffley, and cp clark, (I hope I got the titles right) I will forward a copy of this to our local news papers, and I hope to God they print it. I am very greatful for the insight, The terrorist have not succeded with me! I was a little worried, but know I understand. It would be very prudent on everyone's behalf to get this duplicated and forwarded to every post board you frequent and every news media available. As a civilian, I can say that this is the most informitive document that I have had the opportunity to read about this subject. I am currious as to why our government hasn't made this info available to the public before now. If they have, can someone please point me in the right direction, so I don't form the wrong opinion?
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Spclark and Travelor:The socialist media is only interested in sensationalism. They would make a mountain out of a mole hill.The giveamint encourages this so that they can increase their powers, which means less freedom for us all.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.
  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good post. Lots of good, solid info. Basically what I have been telling my family, stay calm and we WILL get through this.Also, while on the subject, have you heard the "official" line on how to protect yourself from the possibility of anthrax on/in your mail? Wash your hands after handling your mail. I'm assuming that they mean this to try to eliminate any stray spores on your mail from a cross contamination type scenario. Only trouble is, you get your mail and bring it in the house. Wash your hands. Open it and pay some bills. Wash your hands. Toss the mail on the counter. Wash your hands. Toss it in the trash. Wash your hands. Take out the trash. Wash your hands. See the problem here?
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Timely and informative to say the least - thanks for posting this.
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    People are grasping for something to be comforted in their fear--out steps Mr. Red Thomas, former Drill Sergent, to tell them they have little to be afraid of.I just hope the FBI has grabbed enough of the right people so that they have foiled any CHLORINE gas (yes Mr. Thomas, I said "GAS"!) attack which the terrorists were planning.And I hope Bin Laden did not aquire any nerve agents (sorry Mr. Thomas, it is NOT quite the same as insect spray!)...I don't mean to jump all over this guy; and some of his arguments make sense, but some of what he's saying is just plain nonsense.There are a whole lot of people who have become overly "suburbanized"--they think the whole world is like their little safe subdivision (these are the same ones who want to take your guns claiming that "people don't need guns, you're just paranoid if you think you need a gun in America"). There are thousands of people out there in this world, thinking, planning, and working toward the goal of killing hundreds, thousands and even millions of Americans. Some of us knew that fact before the events of Sept. 11th; and some people STILL don't get it..."Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."--Sir Winston Churchill
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    competentone,I think what the sarge is saying is much closer to the facts than what the media is saying. I have been checking these facts since I posted the letter, and so far they all check out. My company's (a fortune 500) security office is currently verifing these facts to publish to our over 100,000 work force. Many of whom work in the middle east. Also, much of what he's saying is more or less what we were taught in the USMC. I appreciate your post, but I think it is attitudes like yours that are overboard. It is true that you can die from exposure to any of these agents, and I noticed that VX Gas was not covered here. That's really bad stuff and deadly. The common agents that the terrorist can get ahold of is very hard to use. I think the media has over sold the danger. It's real, but not as big of a threat as they have implied.Thanks for your reply,
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE![This message has been edited by dheffley (edited 10-26-2001).][This message has been edited by dheffley (edited 10-26-2001).]
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dheffley,Yes, I'll plead guilty to being a little "on the paranoid side".But the hypocrisy of our government is really getting to me--I don't know if Drill Sergent Thomas is still "on the payroll" (he's ret., so I'm sure he likes his pension), but to hear more "government types" telling people "to just remain calm" is REALLY worrying me.They've got their gas masks, their potassium iodide tablets, their small pox vaccines, and in some cases, their fallout shelters, armed guards and escape aircraft ready to wisk them away at a moments notice. But the rest of us are to be considered foolish and reactionary if we attempt to take similiar precautions. And I don't see the media encouraging hysteria--infact some seem to be reporting with a clear slant toward the government "experts" calling for "calm".Of course what really is annoying me is thinking about the billions of dollars which have been fed into the bureaucracies which are supposed to provide the citizens with emergency help in a wartime like crisis--and knowing that these agencies ARE NOT READY to deal with the citizens needs if the occasion arises.We're on our own--and the media is NOT telling us that! And I don't think Mr. Red Thomas is helping the general state of "unpreparedness".
  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    in responce to competentone, I think you're right, why is it that there are no government subsidized gas masks made available to the general public? why such a shortage of that type of item, when they have known about the potential risk for quite some time? I still havn't heard about any government sponcered information sources for public education in regaurds to this type of risk????
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well to add something positive ,to rid your mail from Antrax "microwave" it for 40 seconds in your microwave oven (as long thereare no metal clips in mail) will do OK (Paper ONLY) no CDs Tapes Electronics or metal ,may start a fire and render the item useless.
    I judge Thee!, Not for what you are , but for what you say !
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    competentone and travelor,I agree with you guys that our government body has not prepared for this, and has squandered money that should have been spent on these civil defense matters. I grew up when we had civil defense shelters designated in our areas, and the children practiced civil defense drills in school.I don't think Sgt. Red Thomas was addressing those matters. I think he was trying to tell people not to panic. You can still be killed, but the chances are very, very remote.I do, however, think we as the public should hold the government responsible for there lack of preparedness in this matter. They should have seen it coming. Most of us did.Let's just not let the sensationalizing media drive us over the edge. Thanks for your replies. I do appreciate them!
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE![This message has been edited by dheffley (edited 10-27-2001).]
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