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Just for the Bushwhackers
dheffley
Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
Some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One person recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history.
Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember. It was started by terrorists on 9/11, and more than one country supported those who engineered it. But still, some want to claim that it wasn't Iraq that attacked us on 9/11, so they should be exempt. Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.
FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman finished that war and starte d one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked u s.
Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent . Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions .
In the two years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 ! a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terr orist attack at home.
Worst president in history? Come on!
How you doin'!
Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember. It was started by terrorists on 9/11, and more than one country supported those who engineered it. But still, some want to claim that it wasn't Iraq that attacked us on 9/11, so they should be exempt. Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.
FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.
Truman finished that war and starte d one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year.
John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked u s.
Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.
Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent . Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions .
In the two years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 ! a year. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terr orist attack at home.
Worst president in history? Come on!
How you doin'!
Comments
When you wrestle a 'gator, there ain't no good end!!
"Molon Labe!" Spartan General-King Leonidas
I think they're all liars and crooks.
We can agree on that, but the real whackers give him no credit even where it's due. Makes it tough to weigh him against a very liberal gun grabbing Massachusetts Kennedy clone. I'm yet to be convinced that Kerry is a better man for the Whitehouse.[;)]
How you doin'!
It's funny that you only name Democratic presidents starting wars.The only other conflict I can think of right now that you didn't mention is Grenada,if that counts(which was Reagan I think).It seems to me that Bush MAY be a closet democrat.[:p]
Muggster
He Dog
Well.....that's a good observation dheffly.It's seems that WWII was nessesary though.....I mean if Hitler had developed the atomic bomb before us........[xx(]
I think that was the point Bush made. Did you want to wait until Saddam developed an atomic bomb?
quote:Originally posted by muggster
It's funny that you only name Democratic presidents starting wars.The only other conflict I can think of right now that you didn't mention is Grenada,if that counts(which was Reagan I think).It seems to me that Bush MAY be a closet democrat.[:p]
Neither Grenada or Panama were mentioned. I don't consider those wars. Do you? And, I think Bush is too much like a democrat. That's one of the things I have against him. I didn't say he was the greatest, I said he wasn't the worst. Don't twist my words the way the whackers twist Bush's![;)]
How you doin'!
I remain at a loss to understand what major threat to the US Iraq posed that warranted our invasion. If one accepts the argument Our Leader puts forth: Saddam could have sold WMD to terrorits (note he did not have WMD, BTW), then, by the same token, we should be invading Pakistan for its sale of WMD technology; we should invade Israel for its possession of over 200 nukes; we should invade Iran because it "may" be building nukes, etc., etc.
C'mon, remember that Our Leader said he would have a "humble" foreign policy--and yet we end up with our military forces occupying 2 countries where we are now "nation building."
Further, why on earth are the American citizens paying to rebuild Iraq? If the Bush admin claims our bombing was "selective", why is it OUR responsibility and MONEY going there instead of being spent HERE?
Our Leader gives many of you a nice warm, fuzzy feeling when he dresses up in a military flight suit and rants about "peace" but please notice he ends up doing the exact opposite. Don't any of you have eyes that see and ears that hear? [}:)]
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
No I don't consider Grenada a war....or Panama.
Don't get me wrong,I don't like donkeys or elephants(bahaahaahaa)
Muggster
Hey Hairy - We bombed Germany, France, & Japan, then rebuilt them. They were our best buddies, until we did not ask them to come & play.
Besides who is qualified at rebuilding other than Brown & Root? Maybe PETA,HCI,CalTrans, dont think so..
Walte
Don't assume malice for what stupidity can explain.
Germany never attacked us? Tell that to the several hundred merchant marine that German U-boats sank or to the US Navy ships sunk in the Atlantic prior to December 1941.
Kennedy and Johnson did indeed lead us into Vietnam. Are you now saying that it was a bad idea to have been there in the first place, Dheff?
Clinton went into Bosnia with a NATO mandate if I'm not mistaken and at the request of the Bosnian government. The only Bosnians who didn't want us there were rapists and murderers.
"Clinton was offered Osama Bin Laden's head on a silver platter three times..." Proof please?
"Keep turnin to the RIGHT"
I'm donating my guns to Israel before I let the democrats have them![}:)]
How you doin'!
If they get in give your guns a big Kiss GOODBYE! Both are advid
Gun Control Nuts.
Greg
Former
USMC
ANGLICO
I am a firm beliver that, if a politician send us to war and we have not been attacked, and there was a political means to avoid the war and the politicians chose to ignore it then we fire the politicians. The Military never chooses to go to war. The Military should always and I mean always be the last choice. Then again who am I to say what should or should not be. Just an American.
Greg
Former
USMC
ANGLICO
Sooooooooo? Bush and all of the presidents listed above are bad presidents? Interesting![}:)]
How you doin'!
Greg
Former
USMC
ANGLICO
Still waiting for a response to my questions... I'll ask 'em again.
Did or did not North Korea kill Americans when they crossed the 38th parallel?
Are you now stating that the Vietnam war was a mistake?
And
What proof do you have that the Sudan offered Osama Bin Laden to Clinton not once, not twice, but THREE times?
I say we elect Pa Booger to the white house. He is not afraid to speak his mind and air his dirty underwear in public. It would be (except for the underwear) a breath of fresh air and a needed change form the horse hockey that flows out of "East Tinsle Town" D.C.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I
advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives
boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the
ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no
character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of
your walks." Thomas Jefferson
David Kay, our esteemed inspector, has stated he believes there were WMD in Iraq prior to the coalition (not just the US) invasion of Iraq. He has also stated that he believes these same weapons were secreted across the border into Syria and he pinpointed the areas to which they were taken.
Osama "been forgotten" has according to many sources attempted to mount attacks against the US and her Allies, but our aggressive (read military actions in Afghanistan and other countires) tactics have held him at bay so that the best he and his Al-Queada operatives have been able to accomplish is suicide bombings of their own peoples in an attempt to stir anger and retaliatory actions.
Hell, the una-bomber escaped detention for a decade until his own brother turned him into authorities. Finding a needle in a haystack built of needles will not be an easy task and will probably be an act of serendipity.
I for one, am not a Bush supporter, not because of his stance on the global war on terrorism, but because of his inability to utter the word "Veto" on any and every spending bill to have crossed his desk. If he wants to win the support of this Libertarian he must reign in his zealous spending habits. I prefer to not have my hard earned dollars set aside to study the mating habits of the red breasted googoonaut and the state support of inept artists whose paintings are not worthy of the walls of the local *-n-Go!
***KATN!***
He stated something to the effect that " The election will go to the man able to do the most good for the world with American power "....
What an ignorant statement.America is supposed to be the focus of an American President.
Pax America,people...will 90 % taxation please you..to pay for their foreign adventures ? Or would you prefer to give your ENTIRE output of cash to the government so they can ever increase the largesse to various corporations and foreign countries..and you get a 'feeding station'...?
Will there EVER come a time when you say..."ENOUGH..I WILL SUPPORT YOU NEVER MORE..?????"
Plains Scout: I am with you. Pabooger, you just captured the North Dakota vote.[:D]
I actually considered voting for Bush this time until I heard him say shipping american jobs overseas is good for our economy. YIKES!!! Let the Mexicans in the USA and ship the jobs out of the USA. Who honestly thinks this will help anyone other than the big business buddies of his who will make a ton off of cheap 3rd world labor?[V][:(][B)]
Mad Dog
Some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war.
I am one of those. Being that the constitution says that congress declares war, and not the president, I dont know how ANYONE can agree with Bush "starting this war".
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
Salzo, what presidents started the Korean War, Vietnam War, and Bosnian War? All democrats.
"
Whats your point? Does that mean that Bush is justified in assuming unconstitutional powers, because Democrats have done so?
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
[/quote]
Salzo, unfortunately the Democrats set the precedent. Also I remember Congress authorized Bush to go to war againjst Iraq. Also your beloved John Kerry signed the document also. Just another case of the Kerry shuffle or "flip-flop" along with many other 180 degree turn abouts including the Vietnam War, national defense, taxes, wifes,now he is a hunter even though he supported the Brady bill, etc. etc.
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
I agree, but I still would not have voted for him.[;)]
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
Salzo, unfortunately the Democrats set the precedent. Also I remember Congress authorized Bush to go to war againjst Iraq.
So if the Democrats set a precednt, then it is OK for Republicans to follow suit.
So if George Bush dipped his wick in the oval office, it would be OK because Bill Clinton did so.
Congress may have aithorized George Bush to go to war, but there is a huge difference between congress giving the president the authority to decide to go to war, and congress DECLARING WAR, and directing the president to go to war. Take a look at the war declarations of the past-not the resolutions, the declarations. The declarations are congress declaring that we are going to war, and congress DIRECTING the president to fulfill his duty as commander in chief.
THis RESOLUTION THING DIRECTS THE PRESIDENT TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO GO TO WAR-a SUBTLE DIFFERENCE? aBSOLUTELY NOT, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WAR DECLARATION AND a war resolution is night and day.
A war declaration has the people decide when to go to war. A resolution has a president decide when to go to war.
And the Democrats did not set the precedent that the president decides when to go to war, and not congress-that was your buddy Lincoln.
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
Stephen Douglas and all the other Congressional Democrats immediately supported the Republicans and Lincoln.
"support" is not a declaration of war. I must have missed the declaration of war against the confederacy in my studies. Could you perhaps tell me or show me a link to this declaration of war?
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
I believe Bush was speaking to a group of schoolchildren in FL and soon left to be taken to an "undisclosed location".
Speak up. Conspiracy theories involving thousands of people are always interesting.
So why won't Our Leader complete his promise about the real threats facing the US: 1: Osama Bin Forgotton; 2: North Korea?
I remain at a loss to understand what major threat to the US Iraq posed that warranted our invasion. If one accepts the argument Our Leader puts forth: Saddam could have sold WMD to terrorits (note he did not have WMD, BTW), then, by the same token, we should be invading Pakistan for its sale of WMD technology; we should invade Israel for its possession of over 200 nukes; we should invade Iran because it "may" be building nukes, etc., etc.
HAIRY, you don't take care of countries by invading them. It is a corruption of the truth to say that Pakistan, North Korea, and Israel should be invaded because of Iraq. You know as well as anyone else that Saddam had intentions against the US, he kicked out inspectors (defying how many resolutions??). He was a threat. Don't pollute the truth by making it seem that we jumped into Iraq because we didn't like them; NEGOTIATIONS FAILED.
If you ask me, the reason North Korea, Libya, and pakistan are cooperating is because of the example of Iraq. Maybe now they know we mean business when speaking of WMD and threats to our security. Thanks to Bush we have that respect and leverage. No thanks to the alternative that suggested we continue begging Saddam to be nice and play fair.
As far as Osama, what do you want us to do?? Do you think no one is looking for him?? Say hes "Osama bin fogotten" to one of the young SF soldiers or SEALs on the ground looking for him [:(!]-- I don't think you would enjoy the response.
I enjoy debating with you HAIRY. Bush isn't all he could be and you have many good points. But you overstep the boundaries sometimes IMO. You forget what will come with the alternative. I think you allow your intelligence to fog your perceptions sometimes. You don't have to like Bush to know he is better than the alternative. I am not trying to offend you BTW.
Frog
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY
I actually considered voting for Bush this time until I heard him say shipping american jobs overseas is good for our economy. YIKES!!! Let the Mexicans in the USA and ship the jobs out of the USA. Who honestly thinks this will help anyone other than the big business buddies of his who will make a ton off of cheap 3rd world labor?[V][:(][B)]
Mad Dog
Who are you going to vote for then?? Kerry?? Be careful what you wish for.
Frog
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY
quote:Originally posted by BlackieBooger
Stephen Douglas and all the other Congressional Democrats immediately supported the Republicans and Lincoln.
"support" is not a declaration of war. I must have missed the declaration of war against the confederacy in my studies. Could you perhaps tell me or show me a link to this declaration of war?
"Waiting tables is what you know, making cheese is what I know-lets stick with what we know!"
-Jimmy the cheese man
Salzo, are you certain that there was no Declaration of War. Did the south have a Declaration of War since the they were first to attack. Also do you know if there was a Declaration of War for the War Of 1812?
"Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, not liberty to purchase power."
Benjamin Franklin, 1785
My only wish is for a honest politician who truly cares about our country and not just special interest groups. The problem is money buys elections and the special interest groups have the money. Corruption in rampant in politics. So my wish is probably better spent on the tooth fairy.[:(]
Mad Dog
My only wish is for a honest politician who truly cares about our country and not just special interest groups. The problem is money buys elections and the special interest groups have the money. Corruption in rampant in politics. So my wish is probably better spent on the tooth fairy.[:(]
Mad Dog
I cannot agree with you more mad dog. We want the same thing. But if you think Kerry is the lesser of the two evils, I suspect you may, in fact, believe in that tooth fairy.[;)] Just look at what Kerry stands for. It is no wonder that Kerry's only platform is anti-Bush; he has no better ideas.
Frog
GO NAVY, BEAT ARMY