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Zero Tolerance

niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
Local PD's in AZ are considering adopting a "zero-tolerance" for speeding... This means that if you go ONE mile over the limit, they have a right to pull you over and give you a ticket. Currently, most motor officers I know from MD to AZ allow a 9-10 mph leeway, but no more in AZ.

They hope this will curb people from running red lights.

Honest approach to curb red light running, or just another way to get money from tickets? What do you think?

My gun is prettier than yours, and it's a Glock!

Comments

  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seems the good people of Delaware are fighting back for the little kid who is being forced to an alternative school for 45 days. I can tell you, people in Delaware are pretty good normal folks. I knew this wouldnt go over without some one saying something.

    http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091013/NEWS03/910130342&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

    When I lived in Delaware, Newark was only about 15-20 minutes from my town.
  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At least it ooks like west point still has some common sense they annouced that they will not hold the knife against the 16 year old eagle scout
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    sounds like another one of those "toll booth" type suggestions to me. Quit worrying about speeders and pull over the agressive drivers instead, and see what happens to the fatality numbers. But that wouldn't get the state any more money now would it......hmmmmm.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why JustC, you wouldn't be suggesting that they ticket just for revenue, not public safety would you? I know a fellow that got stopped and ticketed and never bothered to send in the fine. Three years later he was stopped in a routine insurance/registration check and they found an outstanding warrent for him. He was detained and then picked up and hauled back across the state. The traffic court judge had his bench set up in the door of the city vault! After he paid his fine, he had to take a bus home. I think tickets are all that keeps some little burgs afloat!
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    X-ring Hedog. Southern Ohio is infamous for this.

    PC=BS
  • austin247austin247 Member Posts: 375
    edited November -1
    To each his own, I suppose, but I know I wouldn't write a citation for one mile an hour over the limit. Radar units are required to be accurate to WITHIN one mph, so if you get written for one mph over I would think you have a pretty good case. I'm much more worried about the DWHUA driver who is driving 90 mph while talking on a cell phone, eating extra-crispy KFC, and trying to find that George Strait CD that fell in the floorboard.

    I'm usually pretty generous, and will allow 10 to 15 mph over the limit, depending on traffic conditions and the posted speed limit. Even with those guidelines I could write as many citations as I have ink in my pen for.

    Legally, you can be pulled over for one mph over the limit, and legally you can be cited for it. There is a whole level of common sense for the officer's part, however. It's gonna be a lot harder to tell the JP that you were "accidentally" running 85 or 90 mph than to tell him you were accidentally *gasp* running at the ungodly speed of 71 in a 70.
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't stop unless you t-bone my patrol car and even then, depending on the weather, I sit tight. We got too many politicians straining on gnats and swallowing camels. For instance they attack smokers and gun owners (here's where some will disagree with venomous displeasure) but don't seem to get the big picture that alcohol destroys more families and kills more people that the first two.
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Austin, since it appears you are a cop in a wonderful state we all love can you answer a question for me? I know after the other thread about the chase you guys had this is a touchy subject, but why are the CHP and politians there so hell bent on nailing trucks and why with all the nice wide open spaces is the speed limit still 55? There are states with far worse roads and the same amount of traffic that refuse to lower the speed for trucks and there are a few states that act like trucks are a cancer and Nazi style control over them is thought of as necassary. There are some poeple on here that do not like the idea of trucks moving with the flow of traffic and I think take it personal when they get passed, these people remind me alot of the anti gunners, we have the PROOF that they are wrong but we cannot convince them otherwise. It has been proven time and time again that non uniform speed limits are dangerous and DO NOT prevent accidents. California and Ohio have the highest numbers of truck accidents and guess what, they have the most barbaric means of truck enforcement in the country. Nunn of Dano can probably back me up on this, when Texas raised the speed limit for trucks to 70mph a couple years ago their truck accident rate went down. truck safety needs alot of focus on the everyday commuter who has no idea what to do around trucks, alot of people see trucks as an obstacle that needs to be overcome. It is agravating and even though we truckers are supposed to be big boys and professionals, these type of laws and the actions of others cause road rage. Whats your opinions on this? And I know of 3 people who will reply to this with negatives, I know your opinions and I know you want trucks in the right lane doing 55 mph because you feel we have no rights to the road as you do and that you have the right away over trucks, so there is no need for you to flame this subject like you have done in the past.
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I once had one of our locals pull me over for + 1 MPH; he was as green a rookie as they come at the time. When I stopped laughing, I suggested he call the chief (who knows me well) and verify this was in keeping with department policy. He was a little huffy about it at the time (more so when I noted that laughter was not a felony), but he's mellowed out in time. Seems to me someone in AZ is looking for revenue. Did I really say "time" in three places there?!
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    7mm it seems to me it would be hard to separate the accidents caused by haveing truck regulated to slower speeds from the accidents caused by trucks going much faster than the limit.

    Having said that, I frequently run with trucks, because they are so well connected for the most part they know when they can run 80-85. I find they are courtous and helpful if you return the courtesy.
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes hedog, truckers speed, but so do the cars. The thing that ticks me off also is the biased way of reporting the accidents. this happened last year in Philly.

    A car ran a traffic light and drove under a tractor trailer and was killed. There is no way the driver of the truck could have avoided the accident and at forst it was ruled unavoidable. The insurance companiy investigated the driver and found "mistakes" in his log book that was used against him. The mistakes if I remember right was a 1/2 hour over hours of service and missreported miles for the day. The "violations" accured earlier in the week and had no direct impact on the day of the accident. However thatnks to the "hatred" of trucks by the media and the missinformed that trucker is now in federal prison for Manslaughter while in a comercial vehicle, his company paid out a multimillion dollar settlment.

    This crap happens everday, just like guns, the stats are way way over exaggerated to support a cause. Unfortunatly lke the anti gunners, most of the motoring public has bought that. I will find the link and the story and post it for you. between the years of 1995 and 1999, 87% of all fatal car/truck accidents was caused by the driver of the car. That is proven and the study was done by the FMCSA but has been buried in political crap to support further Nazi style CONTROL over trucks. I would love to start taking people in the truck with me for a week at a time, then all of these "get that truck in the right lane and slow down" idiots would wake up and see the gross violations and extortions being placed against the truckers.

    Trucking is fun and has its good points but the legal aspect of it and the rights of truck drivers are pure HELL! here is one for you, why is there no minimum wage or fair labor laws for truckers? Mceedees has to pay a minimum wage and has to provide certain benifits but trucking companies do not. Truckers have no rights, and the people love it, so they do not have to follow a truck.
  • austin247austin247 Member Posts: 375
    edited November -1
    7mm, I agree with you about the accident rate decreasing after the speed limits were raised. Common sense tells you that a steady flow of traffic will decrease accidents, and a traffic flow where different sized vehicles are told to run different speeds can only lead to a circle jerk on the highway.

    As far as our speed limits go, in my part of the state the rural highways are all speed limited at 65 mph or 70 mph. TXDOT determines the speed limits based on traffic flow, road conditions, yada yada yada. But in my opinion it seems as if sometimes the choice is made by throwing darts at a map. US77 is a good road, well paved, straight as an arrow, and the speed limit is 65 mph. By contrast, US290, which is narrow and curved, and on which we've had countless fatalities and major injuries, is 70 mph.

    From what I've seen, people in general are a little frightened of big rigs. They're gargantuan compared to your run-of-the-mill Hondas and Nissans and Geos that are all over the roadways, and they dwarf the Expeditions and Excursions and Pathfinders. In a way, truckers deal with the same biases peace officers do, it seems. There are a majority of good ones out there, but the few who go on a rampage (as in my earlier post) get all the attention. Truckers are like any other drivers on the roads - some of them drive recklessly and aggresively. It just seems to piss people off when the rude driver is driving a vehicle that would equal 10 or 20 of theirs combined.

    I don't have a problem with truck drivers in general. Have I written citations to any? Sure I have. I've also written citations to people driving cars and motorcycles and pickups. The bias against truck drivers is a funny thing. If you guys went on a general strike and people found out that consumer goods don't reach the store shelves by magic, people might suddenly realize the necessity of big rigs on our highways, just like being unarmed in a life threatening situation has made at least a few people realize that a gun in the hand of an honest citizen isn't an evil against society.

    I can only speak for myself, as I don't know why some officers and politicians seem to have a hard on for big rigs. There are people who don't like truckers, just as there are people who don't like hispanics, blacks, asians, caucasians, Zimbabweans, etc., etc. Maybe a course of instruction in what to do around big rigs wouldn't be a bad idea. I've always said that no one should be able to get a driver's license unless they demonstrate their proficiency in checking the oil, checking the coolant, and changing a tire. All the calls we get from helpless types who want someone to change a tire or fix their car on the side of the road take us away from being able to do our REAL jobs. And I can't tell you how many people I see tailgating 18-wheelers, or cutting them off. If there were an arrest title for DWHUA, it seems sometimes that half the drivers would be in jail with the other half waiting their turns.

    Even after my recent adventures I don't have any biases toward truckers. Just as I don't believe that one person committing a crime with a gun means that all gun owners are criminals.

    The only citations I've written to truckers are for speeding. I don't worry about GVWR's and logs. And I've written very few speeding citations to truckers. 999 times out of a thousand, it's the Peterbilt that's running the speed limit or a little under and the other traffic passing him doing 85 or 90. In the majority of my experiences, truckers are the ones obeying the limits. Most of the 18-wheeler accidents we have are late night/early morning and involve the driver falling asleep, running off the road, and flipping the rig onto the side. We've had a couple fatalities involving big rigs. I can't count the accidents I've worked involving speeders and drunks in passenger cars.

    I think a lot of the bias comes from the fact that when there is a wreck involving a big rig and a passenger car it's usually spectacular, to say the least. One of the truck fatalities I mentioned involved a truck driver who fell asleep, crossed the center line, and hit an Oldsmobile head on. We didn't need a body bag for the Oldsmobile driver, we needed a bucket and a mop.

    Rest assured...if you're driving through my little part of this great state, and you see my red and blues behind you, I'm not stopping you because of a bias or a hatred. I'm simply gonna tell you that you were exceeding the speed limit by a great deal, or that that the lights on the rear of your trailer aren't working, or something of that nature. We'll talk a bit and you'll probably be on your way very soon.

    I'll only shoot at ya if......

    Well, you've read my earlier thread
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Austin, what state you in? I may have made a mistake because I thought you was in Cal. Last Thursday on US 101 there was a chase headed out of LA that ended just like the one you described and I thought that was the one you was talking about.

    Thanks for the response and I agree with what you said. I am by no means trying to say truckers are perfect, we are human and yes there are some bad ones out there. I get carried away sometimes and drive faster than I should but I feel there is a time and a place for it. Truckers comunicate back and forth all the time, we know the road conditions ahead and what the traffic is doing and most of the times those convoys are very well coordinated. I've had some rides across I40 in Texas that was , well lets say if I was caught I woulda been locked up!

    The falling asleep part, I wish I had an answer for that. Guys need to know their limitations, they need to quit pushing themselves. I say that is a 50-50 deal betweeen the drivers and the dispatchers. If these companies would quit treating us like robots and if the drivers would pull over when they was tired maybe the accidents would come way down. There is currently a big rukus in DC over this as some b$@#! named Julie Cirrilo is on a one person quest to wreck the trucking industry. The other truckers on here can vouch for this, if this goofy broad gets her Hours OF Service Rules passed anything like the way she wants, this country will go into depression.

    You are right also about the strike. A ful blown nation wide strike would be devastating to this country. I know many people who say, yeah yeah, let them strike, nothing will happen. Those people are naive. They say the natl guard could rescue the country,haha yeah right! Yes I feel truckers share the same boat with cops, nobody wants to deal with us, but they need us. If the cops in this country didnt come to work it would be utter turmoil, if we truckers decided not to open the trailer doors, this country is in big big trouble.

    This is a discussion that I can ramble on forever but I will be nice and cut this short. I will say this, I have very strong feelings about the way we are treated but I aint quittin, I'll be a big boy and take it but I will not be quiet about it. Call me a truckers activist, this is my life and there is not going to be some truck hatin dimwit thats going to take my pride from me. And like I have said many times before to the cops out there, thanks for being there. It's not the cops I have a problem with, its the politicians and the media that makes us out to be criminals.
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    7MM - I agree with you to a certain extent, it depends on the situation. For instance, rush hour traffic around Charlotte NC. Not a good Idea for a complletely loaded semi to be barreling along at 70+ in bumper to bumper traffic. On open interstate it would be ok as long as the traffic wasnt congested. I know on hills and mountains trucks have their own lanes, maybe it needs to be that way everywhere.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • kimberkidkimberkid Member Posts: 8,858 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I beleive the speedometers, even in new cars are "plus or minus" 3-5 mph of actual speed ... heck, even tire wear between a new tire and an worn tire will effect "actual" speed, as tire size is viewed as a gear when designers devlope speedometers for each modle of car or truck.


    =================================
    I used to know everything, then I grew up!...(kinda)

    kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
    If you really desire something, you'll find a way ?
    ? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
  • cowboy62cowboy62 Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    7MM,

    You hit the nail on the head about multiple speed limits.

    I am the track announcer at a small speedway in Virginia. Every time we let two different classes practice with each other, we have terrible crashes. The bigger the difference in speed the more devastating the crashes.

    It seems to be a no brainer.......

    Cowboy

    When first a job has begun, see it through till' it's done. Whether the labor is great or small, do it right, or not at all! gshutes@aol.com What I d
  • austin247austin247 Member Posts: 375
    edited November -1
    Saxon, I'm in the great state of Texas. Shoot, if I lived in Cali I couldn't own half of what I own.

    In response to Kimberkid, tire size, outside temperature, tire wear, and tire inflation all affect speedometer readings and can do so by several miles an hour. That's why I feel pretty safe giving a 10-15 mph buffer zone. You'd have to drive a Honda Civic with tractor tires mounted on it to get the speedometer to be that inaccurate.
  • RickstirRickstir Member Posts: 574
    edited November -1
    In 1988, I got a warning ticket from a Nebraska State Trooper. It reads 57 in a 55. He had to make a U-turn on a two lane state highway to come back and get me. I wanted to tell him that the U-turn was much more dangerous than 57 in a 55, but my daddy raised me to be respectful to the law. I have that warning ticket safely stored in the scrap book of that vacation.

    Like in the NFL, defense is the key.
  • loan sharkloan shark Member Posts: 130 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Austin, you're the kind of cop I like. I also live in the Great State of Texas (College Station) and agree with all you said. I know when I'm driving 10+ over the limit you're a' gonna be lookin for me. I also agree with you about being glad I'm not living in Calif. Beautiful place to visit, but got no plans to move there.
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