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Good News/Bad News

ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
As of the 12:00 news, Ivan's projected path is going to miss the west coast of Florida,,(Providing it doesnt change between now and Monday" the bad news is that our friend to the north in the Florida Panhandle will catch it[:(][:(]

Lets hope and pray it just hangs in the gulf and peters out before it goes anywhere.. they have been known to do that..[:)]

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    ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Forgive me, but I gotta vent a little bit.I was at the local gun shop today. This is in a N. IL 'burb and this guy is the only game in town(s) for about 12-15 miles in any direction. Consequently, he is busy in the slowest of times. Since September 11, it's been like the Oklahoma Land Rush in there. Good news is that a bunch of people who were on the fence about becoming gun owners have jumped to our side. Bad news is that, IMO, a whole lot of them don't know what they're doing and the firearms they've purchased are accidents waiting to happen. Case in point:Guy ahead of me had just picked up a .38 Spcl. and was going to shoot at the indoor range. He asked for a box of "...low velocity..." loads. OK, he didn't want +P ammo. The clerk was clueless and kept repeating that he only had what the guy could see on the shelf. Then the customer spies the first two numbers of the caliber of the ammunition he needs on a much smaller box of cartridges. "Hey", he asked, "Would those .380's work in this gun?"Alright, Elmer Keith he ain't, but I have disturbing thoughts of this guy blowing himself up or, worse, throwing this weapon, loaded, into the nightstand or under his boxers and having some curious six year old find it one day when mom and dad are down in the basement.I guess my question is how do we get the message out that this right to own has a corresponding responsibility to understand what it is you're acquiring and that you can't say "Sorry, won't happen again." when someone is dead from an "accidental discharge." Any thoughts?
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    ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good news: You are going Home
    Bad News: Home will be Abu Ghraib
    (Guess Gitmo isn't that bad after all)

    Tortured screams ring out as Iraqis take over Abu Ghraib
    By Ali Saber in Baghdad and Gethin Chamberlain

    (Filed: 10/09/2006)
    The notorious Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad is at the centre of fresh abuse allegations just a week after it was handed over to Iraqi authorities, with claims that inmates are being tortured by their new captors.
    US soldier Lynndie England was convicted on six charges of abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib
    Staff at the jail say the Iraqi authorities have moved dozens of terrorist suspects into Abu Ghraib from the controversial Interior Ministry detention centre in Jadriyah, where United States troops last year discovered 169 prisoners who had been tortured and starved.

    An independent witness who went into Abu Ghraib this week told The Sunday Telegraph that screams were coming from the cell blocks housing the terrorist suspects. Prisoners released from the jail this week spoke of routine torture of terrorism suspects and on Wednesday, 27 prisoners were hanged in the first mass execution since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime.

    Conditions in the rest of the jail were grim, with an overwhelming stench of excrement, prisoners crammed into cells for all but 20 minutes a day, food rations cut to just rice and water and no air conditioning.

    Some of the small number of prisoners who remained in the jail after the Americans left said they had pleaded to go with their departing captors, rather than be left in the hands of Iraqi guards.

    "The Americans were better than the Iraqis. They treated us better," said Khalid Alaani, who was held on suspicion of involvement in Sunni terrorism.

    Abu Ghraib became synonymous with abuse after shocking pictures were published in 2004 showing prisoners being tortured and humiliated, galvanising opposition to the US presence in Iraq.

    The witness gained access to the prison just days after the Americans formally handed over control to the Iraqi authorities on Sept 1.

    Inside the 100-yard long cell block the smell of excrement was overpowering. Four to six prisoners shared each of the 12ft by 15ft cells along either side and the walls were smeared with filth. The cell block was patrolled by guards who carried long batons and shouted angrily at the prisoners to stand up.

    Access to the part of the prison containing terrorism suspects was denied, but from that block came the sound of screaming. The screaming continued for a long time.

    "I am sure someone was being beaten, they were screaming like they were being hit," the witness reported. "I felt scared, I was asking what was happening in the terrorist section.

    "I heard shouting, like someone had a hot iron on their body, screams. The officer said they were just screaming by themselves. I was hearing the screams throughout the visit."

    The witness said that even in the thieves' section prisoners were being treated badly. "Someone was shouting 'Please help us, we want the human rights officers, we want the Americans to come back'," he said.

    Prisoners interviewed in the presence of their jailers said they were frightened for their safety. They complained that chicken and milk had been cut from their rations, leaving them on rice and water. They also complained about the oppressive heat.

    Outside the prison, relatives of some of the inmates said they were being tortured by their captors. One woman, who gave her name as Omsaad, said: "My son Saad [who was arrested in Fallujah as a suspected insurgent] said he is being tortured by the Iraqis to confess the name of his leader. I met my son and he told me they were being treated badly by the Iraqis."

    Haleem Aleulami, who was released from the jail last week, three weeks after being arrested in Ramadi for carrying a pistol in his car, said the Americans had treated him better when they ran the jail. He claimed that visits from the International Red Cross staff had dried up and accused local human rights workers of being members of Shia groups who turned a blind eye to problems in the jail.

    "The people are Iraqis and they are members of the Sciri and al Dawa parties. They have a good relationship with the leaders of the jail and they keep quiet," he said. The guards swore at the ordinary prisoners, he said, but those in the terrorist section were treated more brutally.

    "The guards were swearing at us, but in the terrorist section they were beating them. I heard it all the time. Everyone knows what is happening."

    And Khalid Alaani, who was also picked up in Ramadi suspected of involvement in Sunni terrorism, said: "We preferred the Americans. We asked to move with them to Baghdad airport because we knew the treatment would be changed because we know what the Iraqis are. When the Americans left everything changed."

    Staff at the jail said that the prisoners were allowed out from their cells for only 15 to 20 minutes a day because of the danger from the regular mortar attacks. They are no longer allowed access to the main hall where the Americans had allowed them to watch television and the room is now reserved for the use of officers and guards. Staff explained that the air conditioning in the cell blocks had broken, although it was working in their quarters.

    One officer, Capt Ali Abdelzaher, said: "We have a problem with the financing for the food, not like the Americans, and there is a technical problem with the air conditioning."

    Capt Abdelzaher also confirmed that a number of inmates had been transferred from the Jadriyah detention centre, along with their guards and interrogators.

    Graphic stories of abuse at that previously secret facility emerged after US soldiers found 169 prisoners showing signs of torture last November.

    Most of the prisoners held by the Americans at Abu Ghraib were either released in recent months or transferred to a new ?32 million detention centre at Camp Cropper near Baghdad International Airport.

    Yesterday, the International Red Cross confirmed that its visits to the prison had been suspended since January 2005 on security grounds.
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    badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My belief exactly. Would it be a good thing if the gun dealers offered a gun safety course to newbies at a reasonable price?
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    wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They let these people vote, drive cars, and operate heavy machinery. I have noticed that you can not legislate common sense or make the world idiot proof. My advice is to just (watch your six).
    " Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects" Will Rogers
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    ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    badboybob - I think that would be great if it were geared for people who know next to nothing about firearms. I've been fascinated by them, reading about them, shooting them, taking them apart, loading ammunition for them, etc. for forty years and I come to a board like this one and realize how much I don't know. I think that a lot of these folks don't even know what question to ask.wundudnee - yeah, you're right. I'm not sugegesting yet another law. It's just that when this current crisis passes the pressure from the left will return and incidents/accidents resulting from ignorance will be used as fodder against us. Just frustrated, I guess.
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    stanmanstanman Member Posts: 3,052
    edited November -1
    Afraid it's the price we have to pay for what little freedom we have left!I'm sure not going to advocate for mandatory registration and competency training a la Fiendstein.I know it'd be tough to do but maybe it's up to us to invite these guys out for a little one on one firearms safety training!
    My wife?.........Sure!My dog?..........Maybe!MY GUNS??........NEVER!!!
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    .250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    No easy answer on this one. If compromise was possible with the gun hating crowd, I would say a law mandating proficiency was the answer, but of course the socialist scum would tack on registration, a $1,000/year tax, mandatory gun safe, etc., etc., ad nausem. Probably former poster was right, invite them out to learn the basics, .38 Special ain't so hard to become proficient with...
    I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltare
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    drachdrach Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Picked up my CCW today and was talking to one of the local sheriffs, he said that the state police had registered a 34% increase in applications for CCW permits since 9/11/01here in VA.
    Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est ("A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands") ~~ Lucius Annaeus Seneca "the younger" ca. (4 BC - 65 AD)
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