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Purple Heart opinions?

TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
Local Vet Set To Break His Purple Heart The Express-Times 10/08/01BETHLEHEM - City resident Angel Rosario on Thursday will dust off the Purple Heart he received after four bullets hit him during a 1969 ambush near Quang Tri, Vietnam. He'll carry his medal to the Colonial Industrial Quarter of the old city near the tannery where he'll lay it down and smash it with a sledgehammer. "I had great pride in my Purple Heart. It was the only symbol of honor, pride and recognition my country had for my conscious effort in the war," Rosario said. "Now it has been watered down to the status of a Boy Scout's merit badge." Rosario's ire is aimed at the U.S. Defense Department's decision to award the Purple Heart to military personnel who perished or were injured in the Sept. 11 ist attack on the Pentagon. A Defense Department spokeswoman in Washington, D.C., confirmed Friday that victims who wore the uniform will receive the medal. Details are not yet available. Rosario, 51, goes out of his way to honor those who died tragically nearly a month ago. "I do not belittle the events that took place on nine-11. It was horrific, and the men and women who perished should be honored. But leave the Purple Heart to the soldiers who consciously fight and die for America, " he said. For the West Goepp Street man, the issue boils down to a soldier's state of mind. He explains that a soldier - he was a Marine lance corporal - in a hostile combat zone must live with the eternal tension that comes with knowing in the next 30 seconds, he could be . "Sitting in an office in America planning for tomorrow's soccer game is not the same as wondering if you'll be alive tomorrow," Rosario said. He asks incredulously, "Should we give Purple Hearts to every soldier who dies in an automobile accident?" On March 25, 1969, the day before his 19th birthday, Rosario and his unit fought the enemy all day near the border with Laos. He was looking forward to a two-week leave as soon as he got out of the bush. "We thought we had them whopped, but I guess not." A shot rang out and caught Rosario in his upper thigh. Within five to 10 seconds, another three shots hit him in the right arm, chest and then the back. "It was funny," he said. "The first shot took me down. The rest of them felt like cigarette burns." The few seconds of chaos were followed by silence. Rosario scrambled behind a tree, then shots came again with bullets chipping the bark from the trunk and wood flying all around him. Rosario was evacuated to the Navy hospital ship USS Sanctuary off the Vietnam coast. His worst wound was in his arm, where the bullet ripped out a mass of arteries and veins. He returned to his home in Brooklyn, N.Y., was released from St. Albans Hospital after four months' rehabilitation, and was eventually released from active duty, due to his wounds. The ugly bruise still on his arm reminds him of how the Purple Heart, pinned to him while he lay aboard the hospital ship, has also been bruised. This isn't the first time the issue has surfaced. Rosario decries the awarding of the Purple Heart to three soldiers in The Persian Gulf War nine years ago. Their claim to fame - "They got lost in the desert," he says. "How does that feel to a quadriplegic from Vietnam?" And in 1986, eight soldiers received the award after being injured in the ist ing of the LaBelle Discotheque in Berlin, Germany. Vietnam veterans were outraged then for the same reason Rosario is outraged now. The gesture, though well-meant, is inappropriate, he said. "They were shaking their booty in a dance club," he said. Rosario said the Department of Defense should develop a new medal for these new and dangerous times for soldiers wounded during istic happenstance. "Maybe they can call it a Freedom medal and incorporate elements of the Pentagon attack in it," he said. "Maybe they can use the plane in the design." Rosario suggested that Purple Hearts are going to the victims, or their families, because the attacks were so awful and have led to such a great display of patriotism that no one wants to object. Rosario does object. "Leave the Purple Heart alone," he said. Rosario said he has written to the Military Order of the Purple Heart and the American Legion about the issue. He belongs to both organizations "I haven't heard from them," he said. So on Thursday, he'll be at the tannery at 10 a.m. to sacrifice his honor. He chose the spot because the medal was important to the colonial revolutionary period. George Washington himself approved the first use of the medal Aug. 7, 1782 in Newburgh, N.Y. "I want to make a statement to bring a sense of awareness to it," Rosario said of his sledgehammer plan. "I'm not interested in influencing other vets - they understand. I want the public in general to see what we see as the medal's degradation." There's another reason. What can he tell his children and grandchildren about his sacrifice if it no longer means anything, he asked. "I've had it for 30 years, and every once in a while I show it to my children and they say, `Wow Dad, that's real neat.' I use it to teach the kids to stand up for their beliefs. When I lay that sledgehammer on it, it will hurt. But it's going to hurt more if I don't make my statement."
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Comments

  • Krag96Krag96 Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I can understand the man's reasons, but not his logic, war has been declared, and those men and women were killed in an act of war, much as those sailors and other military personnel at Pearl Harbor, using his logic those people would also be undeserving of the medal.
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anyhting for publicity, this man instead of being thankful for having served his country, and being alive today as a member of a select group of veterans, decries the government services for honoring those that where in the wrong place at the wrong time in uniform.There are many veterans that have received this medal for wounds received, other than being shot while on patrol in a combat situation. Should he be the judge of how or who earns these medals.Thank God I was not injured when I served in Vietnam, but I did receive two Army Comendations Medals (the second is an oak leaf cluster). Why should I worry about what others did that have earned theirs.I think he ought to grow up, and not act like a spoiled child, cause someone is earning a medal for their sacrifice (even though it was in a different setting) in the service of their country.Our service personnel put on the uniform to protect our country, and 95% do not get to pick an choose where they will sacrifice themselves in service of their country.We don't need these type of stories making the headlines in times like today.Rosario get a life.PS: I served with a munitions handler that lost an eye in vietnam, when a firing pin to a anti personnel mine went off accidently, should he have been deprived a Purple Heart?[This message has been edited by turbo (edited 10-09-2001).][This message has been edited by turbo (edited 10-09-2001).]
  • metzmetz Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    While my heart agrees with the man on an emotional level, I find myself asking if the men at Pearl Harbor should be any less honored than with the PH. I find myself saying no. Though I believe it is a combat award, I guess the arguement I would profer would be he was not at war either, he and the Korean war veterans were never "at war" so spit and defame his honor as he may I believe he is wrong and the honor should be bestowed on the men and women of our armed forces when they fall to enemy fire whether at war, a police action, covert operation, armed conflict, or in supposed peace. What the hell ever they are supposed to be doing for our country. A bullet (or 757 as the case may be) to the head is a bullet to the head. All of us that have worn the uniform have taken the oath, understand the risks and possibilities. If he thought about this longer I think he will find it has * to do with him until he whined and he is behaving like an *. The only dishonor to the PH is his own.Andy
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    My brother was in Viet Nam with a guy who was awarded a Purple Heart for being bitten by a rat.That's a little outside the intent of the medal.
    She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
  • gunnutgunnut Member Posts: 724 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Txs, First off I would like to say that your Purple Heart means something to me.. Thank You for fighting for my freedoms, that being said I agree 110% with your post. Bob
  • gunnutgunnut Member Posts: 724 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just noticed you were posting another article, in any case I still would like to say THANK YOU, Veterans
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Purple Heart, along with all other awards and decorations, are awarded based on the creative prose written by the recommending officer. The Purple Heart has been awarded throughout history at appropriate times and at inappropriate times just like every other award and decoration mentionable. The Humanitarian Service Ribbon that I earned while taking part in the humanitarian work in Central America following Hurricane Mitch was bought with much less blood, sweat, and tears than the same ribbon earned by some of my friends that were in Haiti. The regulation dictates who earns it and who does not. Some merely exceed what the regulation allows by greater leaps and bounds than others that are awarded the same decoration.
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    X-ring turbo!!! Rosario obviously doesn't understand the intent of the Purple Heart. I wonder if he would begrudge Robert Stedham his posthumous Purple Heart and Bronze Star with V which he received during a hijacking many years ago. All Stedham did was look courageously at his murders with cold eyes and not utter a word or a noise as they beat him to death. By that narrow minded little prick Rosario's standards clearly Stedham's valor and heroic resistance doesn't match up to his own stupidity in forgetting to duck and getting hit by not one but four enemy bullets...We used to call that award a VietCong Marksmanship Medal. I can only feel the need to urinate on people such as this Rosario for his small mindedness. Those people in the Pentagon may not have known of their impending death but they were targeted by the enemy because of who they were. Beach
  • PelicanPelican Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DANO, I know a guy got one in Nam for tripping over a garbage can and cutting a * in his leg.All that kinda crap does take away from the significance when you know some one that lost a limb and got the same thing.
    "Audemus jura nostra defendere"- - - - - - - - - - - - - It is useless to hold a person accountable for anything they say while in love, drunk, or running for office.
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It isn't just the Purple Heart. All awards have been cheapened to the point that they are meaningless. I see people who have never heard a shot fired in anger wearing 3 rows of ribbons. It is now common to award an end of tour award to someone who just did his job. When you see a general on tv with 19 rows of ribbons you can bet that he MIGHT have earned two of them. I've been there, done that, and seen that.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.
  • RedlegRedleg Member Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They should not be awarded the Purple Heart. I think the CMH is a little more appropriate.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is not a new thing though. In WWII my dad was playing basketball in some inter-regimental competition and broke an ankle. You gessed it. It always embarrassed him though. He never would tell the stories behind the 2 bronze stars.I see the guys point but I disagree with the logic. Though I don't suppose it matters to those killed one way or the other, It well may matter to their families. [This message has been edited by He Dog (edited 10-10-2001).]
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't the CMH Redleg referred to simply the Medal of Honor? Yes, it is in the name of Congress but I grew up with it simply being called the Medal of Honor and only recently have heard it referred to as the Congressional Medal of Honor.
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • ladrladr Member Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any servicemember wounded or killed as a result of enemy actions has earned the right to wear a purple heart.Anyone care to say the terrs was not the enemy?Not slamming anyone, but imo his actions cheapens it and says those people are not worthy.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rosario earned it the hard way while directly and actively engaged in combat. That should have more value than when someone gets bitten in the * by an Army mule while ducking incoming rounds. Maybe there should be different medals or different classes of the PH.Personally, I respect the man and share his resentment when the award is cheapened or misapplied.
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    So v35 does awarding the Purple Heart to those military personnel killed on 11 Sept cheapen it? Beach
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    V35No logic to your argument, "a soldier ducking incoming rounds, gets bit or kicked, and injured".Assuming the incoming rounds are from enemy fire, this would and should qualify this soldier for the medal.You forget, when a person signs up and takes the oath upon being accepted becomes government property.To much is being made about this misinformed individuals decision to dispose of his medals, because he feels degraded, if he was serious he ought to surrender his benefits also, any veteran that would begrudge another veteran anything received with the established regulations, should reject the award, when it is presented to him, the things being reported, that upset him so, have been going on way before the Vietnam war. He just happen to hear about this practice in recent days.Hey they are his medals, he can what he wants to with them. Case closed...
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    V35You don't make any sense, a soldier injured will taking evasive action from incoming rounds, would and should be entitled to this award under the established regulation.The fact is Rosario (Rosary) hasn't been paying attention and it's only in these recent days events that has caught his attention. Military personnel have been getting these awards for years not just since the Vietnam conflict, when Rosario was initiated to this brotherhood.Sounds to me like he is 25 plus or minus years to late to raise such an issue, he should of rejected the medal on these same grounds when they were presented to him back then.If he is dead serious he ought to reject he benefits that come with such and award. By the way the benefits extend to the veterans family, mother, father, wife, childen etc.Any veteran that would begrudge a fellow veteran an award for not meeting his criteria of what or how serious one must be injured in order to qualify, is selfish, and indiferent towards the cause.If he sobered up and kept from focusing on his war experiences, he would feel better about himself, and be proud of having served gallantly in action.Furthermore, I would be the first to thank him and commending him for unselfishly giving of himself for service. He is a better man than the last Commander n Chief, and his VP.
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry for the double post. Lost the first one when disconnected. Didn't know it got on.
  • biganimalbiganimal Member Posts: 135 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a purple heart for taking a nva bayonet in the shoulder and lung in quang tri provence june 8 1973. I believe that the nva regular that stuck me was an enemy of the same order that the 9/11 terrorist are, so I believe that all military persons killed there deserve the heart and rosario is an * who is entitled to his opinion but he 's still an *
  • Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Although I cannot agree with the destructionof the medal for the evident misuse in the pentagon attack. I notice by your words that most of you sprang from a time when patriotism had less emphasis placed on it,you are not to be critized for it you are indeed a victim of your times and not to be blamed for your fellings on the matter. some of us old dogs placed great import on the awarding of this particular medal more so than the medal of honor for many have witnessed persons completely devoid of honor receive it out of politics alone. just an honest opinion of an old man of a different time.
  • metzmetz Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Odle: The mind is the first thing to go. If "You" place anything higher than the country's highest award you are confused, mistaken, judgemental, and wrong. If "Your" time was so much grander, apparently you feel as if "Your" generation failed. I feel, they made great efforts to make this the greatest and safest country in the world and that the world has ever known. Apparently your misunderstanding of honor comes from a misunderstanding of what the purple heart is. It is merly (used sarcasticly) the indication of wounds received in combat. The interpretation about combat is what is at debate not "Your" generation. I am appaled at a miscreant such as yourself spouting such defamatory comments about our fallen comrads in uniform. I suppose that the Pearl Harbor victims deserve no recognition for valor underfire and wounds received in combat?? Or is this the "Generation" you hold so dear and we can make exceptions beacause this is closer to home ("your generation")? Your ignorant cretinous attitude can only be described as narsasisstic and prejudiced. Since you have grown up I can't say that to you so I will uphold your apparent feelings of failure. After all, we are what stemmed from "Your" greatest of efforts. Thanks for what you did, take your opinion and shove it firmly into your Geritol drain.Andy
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    X-ring Andy!!! I too think the the CMH ranks way above the "I forgot to duck" medal. The Purple Heart certainly tells every other military man that its holder has seen the elephant; however I really don't think the CMH has ever been politicised to any real degree. Only exceptions to that statement might be Douglas MacArthur in WWII and Capt McGongeal(sp?) of the USS Liberty. The criteria required and investigation conducted prior to its awarding is very comprehensive. Oh did I ever mention the Navy Supply officer on a destroyer in the Vietnam era who slipped in a passage way during a shore bombardment and cut his head. Yep you guessed it PHM. I think those who died at the Pentagon deserve it far more. Beach
  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a purple heart from Vietnam and I agree with you somewhat Patrick Odle, seems many medals have been cheapened.But that said, I believe the military men killed or wounded in the pentagon attack should get the purple heart. I don't see it as any different than Pearl Harbor.
  • Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    metz Allways good to get an expert opinion. I would not have someone of your evident caliber think highly of me.those that the truth offends prefer to keep it hidden.
  • metzmetz Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You are welcome. One thing of note....When one has an indefensible point one resorts to vague and personal attacks. I still would like to hear about the comparing of you brave old goats and your innocents victims at Pearl and why now the same exact circumstances happen to our (Note "OUR")military personel and you are opposed to awarding the PH? In short why should they have received and these people not? If this so chaps your * that you offend others such as myself, at least have the intestinal fortitude to explain. Rather than trying to be glib and superior for merly being old. Guess what, we all get old and die sooner or later, it's a fact not an excuse or omniscience.Andy
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hmmmm.Clouder..
  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ummm, aren't we missing something here. Just because you're given an award doesn't mean you have to accept it. If a guy hurt a knee playing basketball and was given a purple heart, can't he just say, "No, I don't deserve this. I do not want it." Isn't there some responsibility on the recipent to judge whether or not he really deserves the medal?
  • Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    metz It might be a good idea to read my first post. I did not agree with the destruction of such a revered medal. I did not attack you or anyone for being born when you were . I made a broad general statement about times being different than they used to be and did not blame anyone for it. you took the liberty of calling me a judgemental, miscreant and took quick offence when I labeled you an expert, although you evidently believed it almost as much as me. it just might be a good idea when you see an entry with my name on it to deem it not worth your time to read and you can rest assured, I will be happy to return in kind.There have been a few times that I may have spoken without not having all the facts. I see that I am not the only one to do this.
  • opentopopentop Member Posts: 143 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think that no one except mililtary personnel who are actually injured in combat should be awarded the Purple Heart. That's what the medal was created for and to award it to others because we think they deserve something, diminishes the importance and tradition of that noble award. If we want to give other people like civilians, etc. and award, we should give them the Presidental Medal Of Freedom or something, which the President can give to almost anyone he thinks deserves recognition.
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Have any of you seen the obverse side of the Purple Heart? Mine says "for military merit". Now just what the h-e double toothpicks is meritorious about getting shot?
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mine says "Made in China"Clouder..
  • metzmetz Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Odle:Still nary a fact.......?Nor any supportive opinion....?Still juvinile vagueness and personel.You are a disgrace to the American Uniformed Soldier. Your blasphemous and one slap shy of traiterous opinions should be kept or explained. You are misdirected and offensive. Mostly you are wrong and a coward.Andy Metz
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Metz, what'r you drinking ? Whatcha talkin about? It's not Odles' fault that you were born too late to experience national patriotism on a level you can't possibly imagine. Somehow that fact must make you feel inadequate and defensive and puts you in the attack mode.This thread is supposed to reflect opinions and everyone is entitled to his.
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A real Patriot, like George Washington, served/s his country out of deep a sense of duty, appreciation and love for freedom, these were handed down to us, by others who paid the supreme price that all citizens in future generations should be given as a birth right that which we enjoy.This generation have those among it's ranks, that are of the opinion, that the country owes them, and in their own militant way demand the government give them what is their birth right.Think of all those that where injured or killed in the defense of this nations government at it's inception; the Revolutionary War which was won to through the yoke of tyranny from off the necks of free people and allowed for the formation of free states, the Civil War which threatened the very existence of the Union of these free states, and in it's outcome defined this nation of free states and gave it it's identity, None of those veterans received awards for being maimed, killed, or having their lives for ever altered. Their only recognition to having served honorably, is their headstones, at some National Cemetery, or a wholesale grave site in some public park, or in a grave marked, to the unknown Soldier.And now, come those that demand a medal that would separate them from all other Patriots, which thru no fault of their own have received wounds (no matter how insignificant, nor major as the taken of their lives) in the defense of their country.I'ts only because of selfishness, and they being blinded by it, fail to see the bigger picture.A Real Patriots, is like an old Geezer.
  • metzmetz Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    v35 everyone is entitled to an opinion unfortunatly there are alot of fools, like yourself, that think just 'cause the beer gave you some balls an opinion is formed. I asked and am asking for a valid opinion on why a WWII vet, that is no differant in any way from another vet (since you also seem to dim to grasp this), should receive the honor and no one else since is deserving, so if it's not to long of a drop off that high horse how 'bout some back up, or are you an old over rated coward too? Personal attacks are easy, my point of view has been explained at length, yet both of you pukes have just tried to diminish me and the medal and think since you wrote it it's the gospel. I'll stand up for me and my government antime and anywhere(you swore an oath to that, or so you sayor is it true that memory is the firsat thing to go?). If your to old to be brave enough and to scared to voice a true explanation of an opinion, go get in a home you are used up and need to be taken care of. If you want a discussion keep it coming. You will not however get by me without my voice being heard despite Nunn. If you can't even give a glimmer to as why you dishonor the men and women of the armed forces with your oh so valuable opinion, then prpeare for someone to call you on it. You are apparently unable to grasp the fact that freedom also allows for a burden of proof on an opinion by popular demand for justification. You have mine and we have your BS. You look like old fools trying to dishonor todays armed forces beacause you did you job and no one else has ever suffered like you. BFD.AndyAndy
  • cowboy62cowboy62 Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Those folks were putting their lives on the line when they took the oath.They died during the performance of their duties. They should be honored as having been wounded in the line of duty.Purple hearts all around.Cowboy
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Metz, Some people like yourself apparently have difficulty grasping unfamiliar concepts and in their frustration resort to vicious personal attack. Everyone,yourself excepted,knows that such name calling belies an inability in argument. You know, being intellectually handicapped doesn't necessarily make one a bad person but name calling does. You've been pissininthewind, it's all over you and everyone can see it.
  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    Okay, how about this. Award the Purple Heart to persons injured by enemy forces. Whether a declared war or not we have plenty of enemy out there so a little common sense will have to prevail. A sprained ankle playing basketball with Qadafi would be no. A sucking chest wound caused by a terrorist's knife, yes. More or less if you are serving your country and your adversary injures you you should qualify. People who get a Purple Heart for slipping on the chow hall floor are frauds and should be ashamed.
    If you run, you'll just die tired! will270win@aol.com
  • zombiedawgzombiedawg Member Posts: 21 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    He has cheapened the memory of all who have received the medal. It seems to me that he should think more of the situation than of his bitterness of these people in the Pentagon attack receiving the medal.These people were just as unaware as what was about to happen to them as the personnel stationed in the Hawaiian islands. Does he really think that they weren't sitting around thinking of something else besides dying that day?Obviously the medal means nothing to him.It is a disgrace to destroy it.
    RANGE ME
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