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Any one know anything about boats?

WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2004 in General Discussion
I have a 16 foot AL skiff that is rivited and leaks... Is there anything I can do to fix it or is it time to sink it and get a new boat?

I have tried marine grade 3M sealent (doesn't work)
Rehammering rivets (doesn't work)

someone suggested coating the bottom with Rhyno liner (spray in truck bed liner) would this work how long?

Any one want to buy a cheap skiff?[:D]

If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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    RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have seen a product before for aluminum boats that is similar to solder. You heat it with a propane torch and fix the leaks. I will try to find it for you.

    I dont know if the Rhinoliner would work or not. You could always glass the entire outside of the boat and over the lip. But that would be expensive.

    How bad does it leak? How many leaks?

    RUGER.jpg

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Ben Franklin
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    3gunner3gunner Member Posts: 489 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I assume your boat is some type of metal. If so, you can use a product called "JB Weld". This is two seperate solutions that you mix together then apply to the seams. This stuff is tougher than an actual weld. The bed liner stuff would work also.
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    WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe 1/3 of all the rivits seap water 3 or 4 let in streams of water little fountains in the bottom of the boat leaks about 10 gallons per hour which you can keep up with if your there but let it in the water over night and it would sink...



    If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
    I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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    H.S. 10-XH.S. 10-X Member Posts: 1,360 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I had an aluminum canoe that used to leak around the rivets. I would drill out the old rivets and take new rivets that I coated liberally with epoxy and then re-rivet it. That seemed to work pretty good at stopping leaks.

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    RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here ya go

    Try this

    http://newtechnologyproducts.net/order.htm#HTS-2000

    Never used it myself but I know there are products like this that work extremely well. JB-Weld will work for awhile but will eventually crack.

    Another product to try is Marine Sealant 5200. You may have trouble finding this, it is basically super silicone. I have personally seen it hold the entire weight of a 60HP Mercury to the back of a boat. I was changing engines, took the bolts out, and had to pry the engine off the transom because the 5200 held so well.

    RUGER.jpg

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Ben Franklin
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    toolmaniamtoolmaniam Member Posts: 3,213
    edited November -1
    Mig weld the seams then use a marine grade caulk, shouldn't leak after that and cheaper than buying a new one.

    A dead intruder cannot testify against you in a court of law!

    If they're still moving, put another round in them!



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    RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is a link for Marine Sealant 5200

    http://www.starmarinedepot.com/detail.asp?product_id=3M8016&p=3M+Marine+Adhesive+Sealant+5200

    RUGER.jpg

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Ben Franklin
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    RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,637 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you have water coming in through holes in one end of the boat, drill holes in the other end of the boat so the water can go back out. [:D] [:D] [8D]

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    WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The cost of getting a aluminum boat welded in Juneau AK would cost more than half the price of a new boat!!! Welding shops start at 75/ hour labor rates for AL!!

    If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
    I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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    daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    It's probably aluminum? You may have corrosion around the rivets,if so,it's not worth the trouble. If heating the rivets and hammering them won't work, you can drill them out and get new ones. The new ones should be the same metal as the boat. You can use an air chisle setup with a flat chisle to do the flaring and use a heavy back stop.
    Epoxy may work for a while, but the flexing will cause it to give way after a while.
    Last resort is to drill out the rivets and replace them with stainless bolts and place a rubber washer under the head with a lock washer and nut. If you have no access to both sides this won't work well. Good luck.
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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    I know nothing about boats (almost) even though I'm reading the Caine Mutiny right now...

    I'd drill out the bad rivets and install new ones with a sealant in the hole as the rivet goes in.
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    toolmaniamtoolmaniam Member Posts: 3,213
    edited November -1
    A good welder can have it done in two hours. I weld on the side for my sisters welding company and I can mig weld the seams on a aluminum dump truck bed in 6 hours.

    A dead intruder cannot testify against you in a court of law!

    If they're still moving, put another round in them!



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    WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Marine Sealant 5200


    Ruger you swear by this stuff???

    I'll put in an order for a couple tubes

    Which do you guys think would work better welding the rivets or the 3M stuff? You would have to weld each individual rivet right?


    Anyone every use those AL rods that you can use with a propnae torch? Do they work? I don't have welded or oxy/Act torch so would have to pay to get it done anyway

    If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
    I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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    select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why couldn't you coat the inside of the boat with something. Or get a larger bilge pump.
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    agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    One word: ALUMINOX. It can be applied in or out of the water.

    AlleninAlaska
    Delta Firearms & Supplies
    http://canadianfirearmsexchange.com

    aglore@gci.net
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    RUGERGUNZRUGERGUNZ Member Posts: 5,638 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wagion,

    The welding rods I listed would probably do better for you. You get a pound of rods and a instruction video for 65 i think.

    Marine Sealant 5200 may work, it is designed for fiberglass, but it sticks to anything. It is very messy to work with. One tube would go along ways, just scrub the aluminum, clean with acetone, and let dry, and then apply the sealant. It is a 50/50 chance but one tube would do the whole boat, and that is only 8-10 dollars. **If it doesnt work to clean it up would be difficult**

    Probably check out the Aluminox that aglore says too.

    RUGER.jpg

    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Ben Franklin
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    925925 Member Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    you won't get it hot enough with a propane torch to aluminum solder it .Probably best to sell it for 3/4-1/3 what a new one would cost (depending on looks and how good a salesman you are) and get a new one.
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    FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,278 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Duck tape[:D]

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    sword get shot by those who don't.


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    daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    Mapp gas gets very hot-about 1,800 degrees. Aluminum melts at 1,200 degrees.fyi.
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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    JTH7.jpgthis is real handy for Mapp or Propane. About $35.00

    JTH7
    MAPPr Gas/Propane Hose Torch Kit
    Pressure regulated torch unit. Burntip design burntip produces a turbo-charged swirl action flame for maximum heat output. Burns either propane or MAPPr gas. Includes burner wand with swirl flame burntip, 3' hose and cylinder clip.
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    WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen how many sticks do you think to do all the rivets on a 16 foot skiff?

    You are talking about the puddy apoxy stuff right?

    If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
    I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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    agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    Wagion all total your probably talking about doing 25 rivets right? I would buy 2 tubes just in case you needed more at a later date. This stuff can be applied with the boat in or out of the water.

    http://www.shipstore.com/ss/html/FIB/FIB8020.html

    AlleninAlaska
    Delta Firearms & Supplies
    http://canadianfirearmsexchange.com

    aglore@gci.net
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    ItGoBangItGoBang Member Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A friend did this to his JOHN boat... you can buy something like "Rhyno liner" and you roll it or brush it on. He did this about 5 years back. I cant remember him saying that it leaks now.. I dont remember the name of it...Just look in auto stores for it... was about $35.00 [:)]

    It will hurt you, More than it will hurt me..

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    925925 Member Posts: 441 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    yea butt thats alot of alluminum radiating out from the hot spot it will dissipate heat very fast ,I haven't used mapp butt I don't think that would heat enough to get a good flow,I aint tried.I do know alluminum sucks up heat fast.
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    Brth729Brth729 Member Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since you're not doing a wood boat, I can't offer any helpful advice. I'm currently in the process of restoring a boat that belonged to my grandfather. I did a lot of research before getting started, and found quite a few sites with follow along instructions and pictures. Most of which had to do with problems like yours. I'll try finding some links for you.

    Brian

    My grandfather once told me,"It's not what a man possesses that determines the importance and quality of his life, but rather what possesses the man.
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    FlatheadFlathead Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DO NOT WELD! Use S.S. TRUSS HEAD phillips screws with flat washer and nylon locking nut on the back side. Drop of 5200 sealant around the screw head before inserting so that it squishes thru jus' a bit when ya push the screw in. Wipe of exterior with lacquer thinner soon as you tighten the screw. Use #10-24 X 1/2" size screw and drill out rivet with 3/16" drill bit. IMPORTANT! Remove all filings, champher all holes with large 3/8" or 1/2" drill bit. USE STAINLESS STEEL TRUSS HEAD PHILLIPS screws. Box of 50 ea. should cost about 4.50, nuts 4.50, washers 2.50. You could literaly dissassemble your whole boat and put it back together this way with different size screw for different size rivets. I do repairs this way and it works great.


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    jsergovicjsergovic Member Posts: 5,526
    edited November -1
    I've heard of concrete skulling boats...if they can float, anything can.
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    bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you guys can weld a seam that has sealant between the layers(and boats most assuredly do) you're a helluva lot more talented with aluminum welding than I am.
    If 5200 sealant won't fix it, junk it. jmho
    [?][?]barto

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    HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    With my limited experience in boats - but more extencive experience in various materials...

    1:
    I'd either drill out/remove the old rivets and Re-rivet the boat.
    If you're going to use something in between the rivet and the hull - be sure it's flexible enough after it hardens.
    There's some flexible kinds of glue on the market, that will attach to aluminum and still stay flexible even in seawater and such.
    LocTite has a black kind of multi-sealant that I've found out is great at making rubber O-rings with - this also attached to various metals and formed a good seal under a wide variety of temperatures and conditions.

    2:
    Get it welded by someone who knows how to weld in Aluminum. Have the welds heattreated too - to take out the stresses that forms in the material - but the welder would know how and if it would be nessasary.

    If you don't have proper airsuction of welding-gasses between you and what you weld - I can assure you, that you will get a stomach-ache within an hour or so from inhaling the gasses.

    Welding Aluminum can be tough on you - I've seen this at the MAN Burmeister & Wain shipyard when even hardened welders didn't pay attencion when welding Aluminum - they get the skitters/"The runn's", a groaning kind of stomach-ache and be left sick by the effects for a couple of days.


    3:
    Another good thing would be to have it epoxied and fiberglass laid on it. It can easily be repaired afterwards if needs be.
    It's an expencive and timeconsuming process, but you can do it yourself if you want - it's simple enough.
    It takes a LOT of work though and leaves you dazed from the fumes if you're not carefull.

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    Don't do anything that I've allready done - That'd be just plain STOOOOOOPID.
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    bolthandlebolthandle Member Posts: 1,213 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wagion: the 3M 5200 sealent is good stuff if you cant have someone TIG weld the rivets.

    5200 will set up under water.

    There are two types of 5200 there a fast cure and a regular. I think the regular take over 24 hours to. Where the fast cure is like a couple of hours.

    A little of this stuff goes a long way.

    NaPa sells this stuff.

    Bolt

    PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER
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    Big StickBig Stick Member Posts: 77 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    5200 is wonderous and will grant the skiff new life. As mentioned prior,keep an extra tube within the boat,if only for emergency repairs to other areas.

    If you are in Juneau,it's on the shelf....................
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    mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    Name it TITANIC and go iceberg hunting.


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    Mateomasfeo

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    rldowns3rldowns3 Member Posts: 6,096
    edited November -1
    Just have somebody tig weld the seams and rivots. I think in the end your boat will thank you for it.

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    anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boats ... ya mean a hole in the water through which you pour money ... lots of it![:D]
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