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Guns and school teachers

bhayes420bhayes420 Member Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2002 in General Discussion
Hello all, The post about "guns as toys" got me to thinking. Brandon (my son) is a safe shooter. He will be 8 next month. Has his own .22 rifle and we shoot several times a week. He goes hunting with me nearly every weekend. Safe as all get out. I never let him shoot or even look at his gun if I am not with him. It stays in my safe with a trigger lock. He loves it, and we (my wife and I) think it is a great sport. We are trying to raise both our kids to respect firearms, and seem to be doing a good job. But something happened at his school last week that really gave me a case of the "rash". He was talking to his friends at recess, telling them about squirrel hunting and shooting his rifle and how much fun it was. The principle just happened to over hear what he was talking about. Now, this principle is not your "typical" principle. She is 28 years old. Heck, when I was in school, every principle we had was ancient, at least 40! LOL! Anyway, she took him aside and really grilled him about his gun and hunting and what "Daddy did with him". And I can guarantee that she didn't do this because she was on the rifle team in college! He didn't think anything of it, didn't bother him in the least. But when he came home telling me about it, I got MAD! REALLY MAD! Are our schools going to take over the raising of our kids and tell us that we can't do certain things with them? Or that they can't talk about certain things at school because it is "politically incorrect?" I haven't said anything to her yet, and wonder if I should. This is the same lady principle who took 3 kids into her office because they were playing "cops and robbers" at recess and were shooting each other with sticks. Didn't you do that as a kid? With me it was "cowboys and indians", but the same principle. Anyway, just wanted to vent a little. There....I feel a little better! Thanks!
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Comments

  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There, you went and offended me. Cowboys and Indians? I think you mean Cow-people and Native Americans.
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree, You need to approach her, non-combatively, and explain to her that the discouragement of a legal sport, that your family has been involved in for generations, is unacceptable to you. This is YOUR son, not hers, and if she continues to challenge your parental influence, she will be sitting in a school board meeting along with your lawyer. Make it clear she has overstepped her bounds and you are watching her. Just remember, your son will tell You everything SHE says too, remind her of that.
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  • nononsensenononsense Member Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sir, Do not wait any longer! Immediately file a formal complaint with school board. Request time on the schedule for the next board meeting and express your outrage (calmly) at the principal's incursion into your private life, it is none of her business and don't listen to any talk about fear of guns in schools. Use the "Letters to the Editor" function in your newspaper, not just once but over and over. Get a local radio station interested in this from a personal rights aspect. Speak up in other public forums (non-internet), get other parents outraged that this person seeks to run your private life as if it is her job! I hate to suggest this, but if necessary, get a lawyer to help with the school board. But be sure to address the board as individuals, not as a group, especially with a lawyer. If you take action against board members as individuals the district lawyers can't represent them. Remember, your rights are exactly the same as hers, defend your son. Let her know absolutely that what she has done is totally unacceptable. Then let the public know as well.
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  • pikeal1pikeal1 Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November -1
    Go talk to her. Write a letter and give her a copy and tell her than you are forwarding a copy of the incident to the school board, and explain that you are outraged by the way the reacted to the situation and clearly overstepped her boundries. At the very least, you will scare the bejesus out of her.Then you can piss in her weaties.You might want to let her know how your son has become afraid of you and you can't spend the quality time you used to with him because of what he said, and now have to go to counseling...or you can leave the last part out...up to you
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with the conservative approach. I would write a letter explaining that "I am a member in good standing in the NRA who believes in the legitimacy of the shooting sports -- which by the way have a place in the Olympics." I would thank her for her interest in your son's talents and hobbies, and stress that you are sure she didn't mean to interfere with your parenting or to imply anything that might cause you to get the school board involved. Explain that your son's gun remains in a locked location when not in supervised use and that you are very proud of his ability and his potential in terms of the sport of shooting. While you may be bending her real intentions to put a positive light on her actions, I would think she would get the message clearly that a) he is being taught at an appropriate age how to shoot for sport or hunting and the b) you are not only not worried about him but proudly supervise what you consider to be his talents. I also agree that it is tough for a kid not to talk about his hobbies, but it might be wise to explain to him that some kids have been taught to be afraid of guns and might go home and scare their parents with the topic. Since public schools are talking "zero tolerance" for guns, it would be best if they were not discussed in the schoolhouse. These days just mentioning the word gun at the airport will get you a good strip search and a grilling. Don't get mad, just lay the groundwork that it's a well respected hobby that you're proud to hand down in your family and continue to expect from people that when it is explained it will be understood. With this attitude people will find you very difficult to fault. Hey, he might even decide to go after the Olympic ski-shoot thing some day. How would they feel about sabotaging that?
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,342 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saxon hit the nail on the head. My sons have been instructed to not talk about guns and hunting at school.
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't think you need to justify, to her, why you encourage your sons use of firearms. It's none of her business. I wouldn't tell him not to talk about it either. Make him proud of the fact that you put such trust in him at such an early age. Truth is truth whether the PC rectal sphincter's want to believe it or not. I say....go for the face-to-face and explain to her, in no uncertain terms, that her interference isn't acceptable. If her responses aren't what you think are appropriate, make a formal complaint to the school board. Don't warn her that you're going to do it though. That'll just give her time to set her defenses. Blindside her! She'd do it to you! Mudge the vicious
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS![This message has been edited by mudge (edited 02-01-2002).][This message has been edited by mudge (edited 02-01-2002).]
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  • Old hickoryOld hickory Member Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd probably let it go , but if you do write a letter spell it correctly "principal" - as in the principal is your pal!
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  • jhj370jhj370 Member Posts: 57 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There have been some very valid points made in this discussion. As someone who is very much able to relate to both sides of this scenario, I offer this option. There may be a need to educate the pricipal on gun control and safety. In my arena, a lot of the people I deal with think that guns are what they see criminals using on the news everyday, or what they here in music lyrics. WE know this is not the case. Despite our feelings of right and wrong, we have an obligation to our rights, and the ability to keep them, to show, through both actions and words, that guns do not make people violent. The last thing that you want to do is make the pricipal feel that her instincts were correct. Using a calm approach will go much farther that blasting your way into the office. I think you will also find the school board will be much more open to listen to your ideas as well, if you are able to back up your statements with fact. Saying you don't like it, because it makes you mad, isn't going to change their thoughts. I know this is long, but most of the time, the school board, and its empoyees are going to err on the side of zero tolerance. Scenes like Columbine, and school system's fears of litigation, have made that standard . It may sound as though I am pro-pricipal, I am not. I just know how the process and the school board deal with this type of stuff. It's not the way it was when we went to school, and sometimes that is really hard accept. I hope that everything works out and that you are able to reach that point where you feel you were heard and made a difference, for all of us.
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Well isnt this a blast from the past....Not a pleasant one, but one nonetheless.I suggest firing off a letter to the principal, the vice-principal(s), the superintendant, and every member of the school board and town council.Tell 'em you want a written apology, a formal reprimand written in the principal's file, and the assurance it wont happen again or you will sue all of the parties involved and make it into a national issue. Which you will win.This is a classic Liberal strategy to force their anti-gun agenda. Instead of coming right out and saying they want all guns (or talk of them) to be banned and take the heat that comes from it, they instead scare the bejesus out of the (largely uneducated as to the facts) public, which forces their agenda and ensures anyone speaking out will be squashed as a potential murderer.
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    In light of the fact that the concerned parents in Massachusetts can't get the schools to quit pushing their "homosexuality is good" agenda, I don't like your chances with the school board on this issue.Give 'em hell anyway.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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  • pikeal1pikeal1 Member Posts: 2,707
    edited November -1
    oh hell...offer to take the principal out to the range for a day of shooting. show her that there is nothing to be afraid of, and that your son is well taught and well supervised. Ask her to go hunting with ya...might make her understand.
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  • k.stanonikk.stanonik Member Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I dont have children but i see your concerns. I would approach the person in a non combative mannor and ask that she refrain from dicuraging your childs interest, there was not a weapon present and it does not interfear with his school work so it is not her concern. She needs to worry more about the problem children and other areas of the school. if this does not work then approach the school board. individualy and as a forum. ask her about her childhood and tell her to remember it instead of dicouraging a child who is growing as we all did.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Trouble is, in the post-Columbine era, kids are taught to "tell an adult" if they hear other kids talking "gun." And school staff have been encouraged to take rumors seriously and get to the bottom of them, in order to avoid another problem child going berserk. The thing is, if the same principal were faced with a misfit kid who had more wacked-out things in his head, you'd want her to find out before he showed up with his dad's arsenal some day. I'm all for your rights, I'm just saying her questioning kids who talk about guns is now understandable, but only up to a point, and when the kid turns out to be a good one like yours, they need to differentiate that and walk away satisfied. I certainly agree with those who say your son would be better advised to try to avoid talking about guns at school.I can't solve this one from a distance. I'd have to use my best judgment and make sure the lady's investigation was limited to making sure there was no attitude problem, and then leaving you and yours alone to pursue your sport. If she's a troublemaking liberal, I heartily recommend the aggressive legal action -- but I would not jump to conclusions and make a relatively harmless event into a cause of action until I knew for sure it wasn't a reasonable inquiry. You have a right to be sure the lady is not prejudiced against our particular group of law-abiding citizens. On the other hand, in her shoes, given the right set of circumstances, I would not hesitate to question a kid who might be talking guns in a not-so-harmless way. My being pro-gun does not include the belief that a kid with an emotional problem and a gun obsession should be none of my business.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • crisisbillcrisisbill Member Posts: 487 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well I am a retired LEO now working as a Crisis Intervention Specialist and Safe School Consultant, my job has me working with current LEO's involved in shootings, hostage situations and school violence incidents.I have found that many schools and teachers are very Anti-Gun, I was called last fall to investigate a possible "Violent Cult" operating at a school, what I found was 5 students that had just completed their Hunter Safety Course and were proudly wearing their small game tags on their jackets!After interviewing the students I sat the principal down and explained how mis-informed he was, and how if we had more students hunting, fishing and trapping we would not have some of the problems we do with today's youth.I have since taken that principal to the range with me,and he has decided to join a local Rod & Gun Club.So next time your going to the range take a non-shooter with you and let's try to convert them one at a time.......Just a thought............
    If you Fail to Prepare, Prepare to Failfreetog@ulster.net[This message has been edited by crisisbill (edited 02-01-2002).]
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  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Anybody recall the Ed Asner character in "Rich Man, Poor Man"? Sorry, just fantasizing. I think the best approach is a gentle one. Remember, this woman is 28, has a long career in front of her and will not wish to jeopardize it. Use that against her. But, say something or it will only get worse.Clouder..
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, I'll give you some advise from someone who has been there. My son was suspended from school once for talking about having two guns and "blowing up" a squirrel. The first suspension was because he defended a kid who was incapable of defending himself, I believe I posted this story here at some point. Well, I stood up for him, firmly, but without being in any way belligerent, and I did not get anything but smirks from the principal or vice-principal. They yanked my chain on purpose, and made my kid an object of revenge upon myself. My son suffered two years of pure hell, had to walk on eggshells in school for two years. Also got suspended once for eating too many pickles at lunch!! The school board was of no help, they backed the school 100%, and gave me the same "holier than thou" attitude. This was in a district in another town, where my ex lives. He finally got expelled for "assault", which was grabbing the telephone (not from anyone's hand, from the desk) in an attempt to call me when he was sent to the office for knocking too loudly on a teacher's door. I got him enrolled in my town, and the teachers thought he was great. This is a very rural town, most everyone hunts. He went back to the original town for high school since all of his friends lived there. The high school had a different principal. He went through easily, and graduated a semester early with a B+ average.Make sure you know what you are in for!!!!I don't know what kind of town you live in, but the town this occurred in is "yuppieville", where the cops pull over every black, and actually have an undercover cop whose only job is to bust skateboarders. (It's illegal to skateboard anywhere in town, even private property). Why do they get away with it? Because the people who live there like it that way!!!!Be careful!!
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  • bhayes420bhayes420 Member Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Timberbeast, It is sort of that way here. In this town, you have to be FROM here to be anything. We aren't, so are on the outside looking in on most things. Like it or not, that is just the way it is. And this county is next to the county where there was a high school shooting (Heath High School). Our son wasn't talking about blowing up a squirrel. He was telling about seeing a couple of foxes walking through the woods, seeing a big ol' * run out on a branch above us the Saturday before, and shooting his new rifle and how much fun it was. Nothing malicious at all. I am not going to tell him not to talk about things like that. It is part of our life. And a GOOD part, whether others like it or not. We have already given up WAY too many rights to give up "free speech" too. Anyway, I appreciate all the views voiced here. Helped me sort of "sort through" things. Thanks!
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  • shiznut123shiznut123 Member Posts: 18 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    biotch slap her
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bhayes, the "blowing up" wasn't malicious either, just a slang for killing. "Yeah, we went out and blew up a few ducks the other day", that sort of thing. He was bragging on his first squirrel, that's all. Just to clarify. You've taught your son to appreciate nature, and to be safe with a gun, that's the key. Something to be proud of, not ashamed. Just wanted to key you in on what can happen when a school system gets a vendetta. I'd do it again, but I'd bring a lawyer to the first meeting. I believe it may have turned out differently.
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It all boils down to thought control. I arrived at a school for a meeting with a few students who wanted to hear what the army was all about. I was about 20 minutes early so I slid back the driver's seat and pulled out the most recent issue of Shotgun News. Then I put the magazine away and walked towards the school just wondering if I had just broken some kind of law. It's pathetic. Has anyone read the book "Farenheit 451?" Gun control...speech control...thought control...
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hope this story could be some encouragement to those that have given up on the nation's school system. I visited a Nebraska public school last fall in the middle of deer season. Some of the younger students were learning about poetry and had made huge posters bearing poems and illustrations in crayon, marker and colored pencils. Several of the poems were written about deer hunting. Phrases like "stalking my prey with my .44 Mag" and "my gun goes BOOM". They were proudly displayed alongside all of the other poems. My heart swelled with pride. They weren't all that poetic but they were encouraging.
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  • YankeeClipperYankeeClipper Member Posts: 669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just to lighten this up a little. If a cow is a female bovine and a bull is a male bovine shouldn't you say"Cowgirl" and "Bullboy"?
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