People, stop telling people laws that dont exist...

leeblackman

I keep running into people that tell me about gun laws, that I know for a fact don't exist, and I kinda get tired of it. For example, my grandfather, the other day, asked me if all my guns were registered... I live in Texas. There is NO GUN REGISTRATION IN TEXAS... I have people telling me that it is illegal to transport a handgun in your vehicle, well the last three times I got pulled over and happened to have a handgun in my car, the officer didn't tell me that, not only that but the first time I wasn't even 21 years old yet. People are paraniod. And another thing, it does not matter what legislative law was written, it doesn't mean crap until there is a Judicial Precident set for it. That means that the US congress can pass all the laws they want all day long, but until a court of law convicts somebody and interprets the law, it is not really an enforcable law. That is the way our govt. works. Please use this post to discuss laws that you are not sure if they exist or not.

leeblackman

Oh yea, I almost forgot this one. I had one guy tell me that you can't buy handgun ammunition without having it registered that you purchased the ammunition in a federal database. Yea right!!! My A**...It must have evolved from walmart requiring to see his driver's liscence. They were just checking his age, a store policy...

simonbs

I have a question about a federal reg that someone told me about and I'm not sure about:I was told that in regards to pre-ban mags, the reg that stipulates that you can use them, also states that you can only use them with 10 rounds in them, i.e. you cannot fill them up.Anyone know if I've been fed a load, or is this true?

Rembrandt

Many times proposed legislation comes up with some whacked out ideas....but later die in committee or by lack of votes. The media gives these "proposed laws" a great deal of press....it's not hard to see why so many are confused.

salzo

Maybe that is how it is in Texas, but there are alot of intrusive laws in other states.I have heard this argument about gun control laws meaning nothing until the courts step into the picture- But would you like to test a law in the courts? It could involve alot of money,alot of money that most people do not have. Essentially congress does not have to worry about the courts because a vast majority of americans would not be able to afford a defense, if they wanted to test an unconstitutional law.

M.Opaliski

I agree Lee, it is often troubling to listen to some of the things that people believe are laws, when in fact they are not. The best advice that I can give to anyone is to make yourself familiar with any laws that you feel are at all related to you and your situation.simonbs -If you are legally allowed to own and use high capacity magazines, which for your purposes would more than likely fall under state or local law where you reside you can fill them to whatever capacity they are intended for.Federally, you would not as a private citizen be allowed to be in possession of high capicity "LE Only" magazines.

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Support your RKBA ... MatthewNRA Life MemberTalk Radio Junkie opaliski@hotmail.com TheFirearmsEnthusiast

smokinggun

The one goes "Are all your guns registered?" ussually does tic me off.

opentop

Dispite what the Attorney General recently said about limiting Federal gun sale information to 24 hours instead of 30 or 90 days, there is much evidence that gun sales by dealers actually remain in federal databases INDEFINATELY. This is in fact a kind of registration. If you buy a handgun from a dealer and the sale is checked using Federal guidlines via the phone or computer as is the law, that record is kept in someone's database. As I said there is much evidence that the Feds have NEVER deleted past firearms sales background checks from their databases, let alone after 30 or 90 days. Does anyone really thing John Ashcroft's statement that "keeping such sales information should be limited to 24 hours" will really change anything? The requirement that dealers run a check on you either via computer or phone with Federal agencies DOES result in a kind of registration and unfortunately that's just the way it is until WE the voters change it.

hacker

lee: look at how much confusion exists on this board when legal questions come up, and we are all shooters and people who try to keep up with gun laws. imagine how hard it must be for people who arent all that interested. the part about registering ammo may be about back when you had to show id and sign for handgun ammo when buying in a store. remember doing that in the late 1970s and early 1980s?

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hi karate and old spice

leeblackman

M. Opaliski, just out of cuiosity, where did you learn of the law that says you cannot own a LEO Only magazine? I not saying its not true, I just want to know where you heard it from. I personally know of no such law, and I have friends who are LEO's who have offered to sell me LEO only magazines as a competitive shooter who uses Hi-cap mags.Reguarding the "If you bought it from a dealer in Texas it is registered." No, its not, though it is a paper trail to you it is not a form of registration. For all a criminal investigator knows that firearm could have been sold to another individual the day after you bought it. It is not a reliable source of tracing. Its just paperwork used to keep the dealer from being held liable if you go out and shoot someone with that gun five minutes or ten years later, because you signed that you were not criminally insane, ect, ect.And conserning the MIP, in Texas once you turn 18 years of age you are no longer considered a Minor. I have heard of a law that is supposed to prevent anyone under 21 from being in possession of a handgun, but I have found no Judicial evedince of its existance. I do know that there is a law that prevents anyone under 21 from puchasing a handgun. No my parents were not my legal gardians, as I lived alone since I was 19, in my apartment which I pay for.

leeblackman

M. Opaliski, just out of cuiosity, where did you learn of the law that says you cannot own a LEO Only magazine? I not saying its not true, I just want to know where you heard it from. I personally know of no such law, and I have friends who are LEO's who have offered to sell me LEO only magazines as a competitive shooter who uses Hi-cap mags.Reguarding the "If you bought it from a dealer in Texas it is registered." No, its not, though it is a paper trail to you it is not a form of registration. For all a criminal investigator knows that firearm could have been sold to another individual the day after you bought it. It is not a reliable source of tracing. Its just paperwork used to keep the dealer from being held liable if you go out and shoot someone with that gun five minutes or ten years later, because you signed that you were not criminally insane, ect, ect.And conserning the MIP, in Texas once you turn 18 years of age you are no longer considered a Minor. I have heard of a law that is supposed to prevent anyone under 21 from being in possession of a handgun, but I have found no Judicial evedince of its existance. I do know that there is a law that prevents anyone under 21 from puchasing a handgun. No my parents were not my legal gardians, as I lived alone since I was 19, in my apartment which I pay for.

smokinggun

Mandatory registration would mean that every single firearm would have to licensed and registered with a tax paid. It would be a very exspensive program to run. Of course like in non CCW states anyone can be denied. Then there's the enforcement part, that would be exspensive in $ spent and lives lost. Thats why for Gun Control to work it has to take place slowly over a long period of time.smokinggun

competentone

opentop and all,When an FFL dealer goes out of business ALL his records are transferred to the ATF. This is the reason why the Clinton administration worked so hard at putting FFL's out of business. In 1994 there were 245,628 licensed dealers; last year that number had been reduced to about 69,000. This was/is an effective government "registration" of all those firearms sold previously by the now defunct dealers. Are all these dealer records now in a central data base? Officially, "no"; but let me just say, if certain branches of the government wanted to know what weapons you "might" own...they could have that data in less than 20 minutes.The last "un-registered" guns are those bought and sold privately--which is the REAL subject of the "gun show loop-hole"--it's the big "blind spot" in the Federal government's "tracking" (note that term; semantics is important on this issue) of firearms.The enemies of liberty know that arms in the hands of private citizens is the biggest threat to their totalitarian dreams--make no mistake about that!

M.Opaliski

Lee -I read about it in the US Code. Reference Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, Sections 921(a)(31) and 922(w)(1).Now, granted there is no statute that directly states that a private citizen cannot own magazines stamped "LE Only", however, knowing the definition of what a large capacity ammunition feeding device is, and, knowing that it is illegal for you as a private citizen to own a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined by the BATF it is safe to say you cannot own a large capacity ammunition feeding device stamped "LE Only". And, to take it a step further, this LEO that you suggest offered to sell you such a magazine would have been in violation of Federal Law if he had done so.

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Support your RKBA ... MatthewNRA Life MemberTalk Radio Junkie opaliski@hotmail.com TheFirearmsEnthusiast

idsman75

Interesting topic. I had an LEO who holds an FFL offer to sell me a post-ban LEO only AR-15 because I am in the military. It is my understanding that I would only be permitted to do this if the primary use of the firearm was for military/LEO purposes only. I said "no thanks" and paid a few hundred extra dollars for a true mint-condition pre-ban.

opentop

competent one has hit the nail right smack dab on the head and said in a simple and clear manner exactly what I was trying to say. BACKGROUND CHECKS ARE A FORM OF REGISTRATION. That "data" never just "goes away" and if the Feds wanted to recall it, they could and would be able to find you. Hopefully the bureaucratic mess that our government is in will make it likely to never happen, but "what if" somehow, our government were to be overthrown by a military coup or something? You can bet the first thing they'd do if they wanted to keep the people from being able to rise up, would be to go to the ATF databases and make lists of all gun sales to the "last known address" of buyers and then they'd come looking for us. Don't laugh, things like this have happened before. Maybe not in this country yet, but it could happen. Remember Nazi Germany? Remember Cambodia? Not in America we say, well if the anti-gun people have their way someday and we are able to posses fewer and fewer guns, it could just someday become something that does happen here.

BlueTic

Stop it!!! You guys are scaring me.... I've talked with a couple of FFLs and they have even tried to tell me that I'm not able to ship a long gun through the USPO, as a citizen. I told them to look it up and they could not believe that I was right. People think (for the most part) that it is difficult to own a firearm, and all of the gun laws are working against crime. We are the ones who should be out there telling them that crime goes on! 100% of the thousands of laws on the books have done nothing to prevent crime. Even we the gun owners can step around those laws EASY, if we wanted to, but we try to play it by the silly book.

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IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY

SP Tiger

Yes, the common line "are your guns registered" really pisses me off. It always comes from someone who knows nothing about guns or gun laws. It's the kind of misinformation the antis make a career of. On a similar note, I had two people tell me that they saw "guns" for sale in a Cabela's catalog. I stated that they saw black powder firearms which aren't restricted like modern firearms. They said "No, it was a 9mm!" There was no convincing them otherwise. You try to educate people, but some want to believe anything.

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Better to have and not need, than need and not have.

AntiqueDr

I just nod and keep moving.

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30-06

I have the Cabela's cat in front of me, don'tsee any 9mm but if you want a 45LC for 199.99plus SH and set it up with FFL,they will putyou in bisness.(sp?)[This message has been edited by 30-06 (edited 09-06-2001).]

opentop

Basically it boils down to: the informed know what to do, the uninformed ask questions. Sometimes those questions seem "dumb", etc. But I'd rather people as "dumb" questions where they just might get a correct answer and hopefully some education on various subjects.

idsman75

Okay, now I feel dumb. I thought that NICS checks were required with every purchase from an FFL holder. NOW I live in the state of Iowa and the dealers out here don't do a NICS check on ANYTHING if you have a permit to purchase handguns. Any comments or am I just ignorant about the law? I thought that all dealers had to do NICS checks.

simonbs

Idsman, I think if you hold the card, then it qualifys you as having been run through NCIC. Is that what you mean or am I just ignorant of NICS?

twins

I have a CCW in Iowa and that is my understanding also. If you have a ccw, you don't have to go through nics.

simonbs

What is NICS? Is it similar to NCIC?

tr fox

it seems all city, state, county and the federal government think it if o.k. for an off duty LEO to purchase and buy many, many types of weapons and accessorites that I, a common citizen (well, sort of) cannot buy. This is in spite of the fact that the LEO employing agency may not know or even care about the items being purchassed by the off cuty LEO. I respect LEO's (except for the few bads ones) but why do they seem to have a superior rights of citizenship over me when they are off duty/

salzo

TRFox- That is the question that no one seems able to answer.And as far as those blackpowder guns- Soon they will no longer be in the Cabelas Catalogs if the antis in congress have their way. There is a bill, sponsored by Joe Hoeffel(PA)(My neighboring district) that would require background checks and federal regulation of blackpowder firearms.[This message has been edited by salzo (edited 09-07-2001).]

boeboe

Yeh, when people mention something to me about guns being registered (here in Kansas) I invariably come back with "there is no Federal law that requires guns be registered, except for class III". They wonder what I'm talking about. Then it becomes a lot of fun to try to explain.

idsman75

I don't have a CCW -- impossible in my county unless you are a LEO. However, I forgot my pistol permit when I bought my .270 so they did a NICS check on me. I purchased a pre-agreement/sellout S&W 686 this evening and they didn't do a NICS check on me because I had my pistol permit with me. They told me that I can get out of NICS checks no matter if I am purchasing a handgun or a long gun so long as I can present my "Permit to Purchase Handguns". It sounds good to me...one less element of government involvement in the whole process.

idsman75

tr fox -- It isn't right by any stretch of the imagination but even an off-duty cop is an officer sworn in the state where he works regardless if his agency is at the city, county or state level. This means that his authority as a police officer follows him off-duty as well as on-duty and he can exercise that authority regardless of whether or not he is in his jurisdiction in order to prevent the breech of public safety. However, he has no more rights than you or I have but it seems that there are certain priviledges that go along with the job. I certainly didn't feel it when I was working as a military police investigator. I had a permit to carry concealed on a stinking federal installation but still had to wait 9 months to get a concealed carry permit from the county I lived in.

salzo

I have a concealed carry permit, yet I still have to do the Nics check, Brady etc. Different states have different rules. I live in Pennsylvania