In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.
US History 101.....Federalists vs Anti Federalists
turbo
Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
Historical Events Regarding the USA
A. In the year 1774, when the American colonists could no longer withstand the oppression that was bearing down on them, they began to devise ways and means to rid themselves of the yoke that was upon them.
1. An announcement was made throughout the colonies, which eventually culminated in the wonderful document known as the Declaration of Independence.
B. At that time, the colonies entered into the bitter war with the mother country, and as result of several years' fighting, in 1781, freedom from the yoke of England was finally gained.
1. Freedom had been bought at a terrible price with many lives lost on both sides.
C. Two more years rolled by before the Treaty of Peace was formally fixed and signed.
1. The colonies were then left to direct their own course of action.
2. At first, they had a system known as the Articles of Confederation, which was lacking in that it had no executive department of government.
D. In the year 1787, the people sent their respective delegates to the general convention, the object of which was to revise the Articles of Confederation and make them adequate to the demands of the colonies.
1. After a great deal of discussion, the consensus was to build upon the Articles of Confederation and adopt a Constitution for the United Colonies or States.
E. Four months were spent in discussion, investigation, and deliberation.
1. One idea of government was championed by Alexander Hamilton, the other by Thomas Jefferson.
2. Mr. Hamilton's concept was: "The States should sacrifice their powers and form a strong federal government."
3. Mr. Jefferson said, "We have just fought, bled, and died in order to get rid of a monarchial form of government. Let the States retain their powers. Let the doctrine of `States' Rights' prevail, not yielding too much to the central government and not giving too much authority to our capital city."
4. These two ideas having been thoroughly discussed and various compromises suggested, finally, on the seventeenth day of September of 1787, the Constitution was adopted.
F. They then started out to elect a President, a chief executive of the nation.
1. It was unanimously conceded that George Washington should be the President. John Adams was elected as Vice President.
2. As soon as Mr. Washington was inaugurated, in 1789, he looked around to select the cabinet members which, at that time, were four in number.
3. At the head of the Treasury Department, Washington selected Alexander Hamilton, who came to be known as a "Federalist."
4. As Secretary of Foreign Affairs, now called "Secretary of State," he appointed Thomas Jefferson, who came to be known as an "Antifederalist."
5. Mr. Henry Knox was made Secretary of War, and Mr. Edmund Randolph was made Attorney-General.
G. Soon after the government was formed, it was understood and generally known that the country was deeply and woefully in debt due to the expenses of the war.
1. Alexander Hamilton had a master mind along that line, and he devised ways and means, in harmony with the Constitution, to obtain funds for a working government.
2. He put a tariff on foreign trade, liquors, and many other things.
3. In time, streams of revenue began to flow into the treasury, and as Daniel Webster eloquently said of Hamilton, "He struck the rock of internal resources, and abundant streams of revenue gushed forth; he touched the dead corpse of public credit, and it sprang to its feet."
H. Just after that step, Hamilton proposed another matter.
1. He insisted that the government should establish a Nation Bank.
I. It was at this point that Thomas Jefferson, the Secretary of State, objected and with this the first great fight in the new government began, with these two champions on either side.
1. Jefferson said, "The Constitution is the supreme law of the land; and while, indeed, it is not an infallible document, as is admitted by provision being made for its amendment, yet if we launch our ship of state on the Constitution we have adopted, we cannot establish a nation bank, because there is no provision for it."
2. Hamilton said, "There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the establishment of a national bank. The Constitution says not a single word about a national bank. There is not a single line in it that says: `Thou shalt not have the government engaging in the banking business.'"
J. These two ideas laid the foundation for the first two great political parties in this country, known as the Federalists and Antifederalists.
1. Hamilton's party, the Federalists, came to be known as "Loose Constructionists"; that is, to construe loosely the Constitution, on the grounds that we are at liberty to do anything that it does not specifically prohibit.
2. Jefferson's party, the Antifederalists, was known as "Strict Constructionists"; that is, we must be governed strictly by what's written.
K. At first, Mr. Hamilton's idea prevailed and John Adams, who was a Federalist, was elected as the second President.
1. However, Jefferson, the Antifederalist, continued to preach the doctrine of respect for the Constitution, and later, he was elected the third President.
**The Anti federalists of that time are the Democrats of our time, they were and still are, Liberal, Modernists, and "Loose Constructionists" when it comes to interpreting our Constitution.
**The Federalists of that time are the present day Replublicans, they for most are Conservative, Moderate and "Strict Constructionists" when interpreting the Constitution.
If Liberals get their way, the Constitution is simply a document that can be re-interpreted, and re-written as often as necessary to accomplish their own agenda.
Now you know the rest of the story..
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
A. In the year 1774, when the American colonists could no longer withstand the oppression that was bearing down on them, they began to devise ways and means to rid themselves of the yoke that was upon them.
1. An announcement was made throughout the colonies, which eventually culminated in the wonderful document known as the Declaration of Independence.
B. At that time, the colonies entered into the bitter war with the mother country, and as result of several years' fighting, in 1781, freedom from the yoke of England was finally gained.
1. Freedom had been bought at a terrible price with many lives lost on both sides.
C. Two more years rolled by before the Treaty of Peace was formally fixed and signed.
1. The colonies were then left to direct their own course of action.
2. At first, they had a system known as the Articles of Confederation, which was lacking in that it had no executive department of government.
D. In the year 1787, the people sent their respective delegates to the general convention, the object of which was to revise the Articles of Confederation and make them adequate to the demands of the colonies.
1. After a great deal of discussion, the consensus was to build upon the Articles of Confederation and adopt a Constitution for the United Colonies or States.
E. Four months were spent in discussion, investigation, and deliberation.
1. One idea of government was championed by Alexander Hamilton, the other by Thomas Jefferson.
2. Mr. Hamilton's concept was: "The States should sacrifice their powers and form a strong federal government."
3. Mr. Jefferson said, "We have just fought, bled, and died in order to get rid of a monarchial form of government. Let the States retain their powers. Let the doctrine of `States' Rights' prevail, not yielding too much to the central government and not giving too much authority to our capital city."
4. These two ideas having been thoroughly discussed and various compromises suggested, finally, on the seventeenth day of September of 1787, the Constitution was adopted.
F. They then started out to elect a President, a chief executive of the nation.
1. It was unanimously conceded that George Washington should be the President. John Adams was elected as Vice President.
2. As soon as Mr. Washington was inaugurated, in 1789, he looked around to select the cabinet members which, at that time, were four in number.
3. At the head of the Treasury Department, Washington selected Alexander Hamilton, who came to be known as a "Federalist."
4. As Secretary of Foreign Affairs, now called "Secretary of State," he appointed Thomas Jefferson, who came to be known as an "Antifederalist."
5. Mr. Henry Knox was made Secretary of War, and Mr. Edmund Randolph was made Attorney-General.
G. Soon after the government was formed, it was understood and generally known that the country was deeply and woefully in debt due to the expenses of the war.
1. Alexander Hamilton had a master mind along that line, and he devised ways and means, in harmony with the Constitution, to obtain funds for a working government.
2. He put a tariff on foreign trade, liquors, and many other things.
3. In time, streams of revenue began to flow into the treasury, and as Daniel Webster eloquently said of Hamilton, "He struck the rock of internal resources, and abundant streams of revenue gushed forth; he touched the dead corpse of public credit, and it sprang to its feet."
H. Just after that step, Hamilton proposed another matter.
1. He insisted that the government should establish a Nation Bank.
I. It was at this point that Thomas Jefferson, the Secretary of State, objected and with this the first great fight in the new government began, with these two champions on either side.
1. Jefferson said, "The Constitution is the supreme law of the land; and while, indeed, it is not an infallible document, as is admitted by provision being made for its amendment, yet if we launch our ship of state on the Constitution we have adopted, we cannot establish a nation bank, because there is no provision for it."
2. Hamilton said, "There is nothing in the Constitution prohibiting the establishment of a national bank. The Constitution says not a single word about a national bank. There is not a single line in it that says: `Thou shalt not have the government engaging in the banking business.'"
J. These two ideas laid the foundation for the first two great political parties in this country, known as the Federalists and Antifederalists.
1. Hamilton's party, the Federalists, came to be known as "Loose Constructionists"; that is, to construe loosely the Constitution, on the grounds that we are at liberty to do anything that it does not specifically prohibit.
2. Jefferson's party, the Antifederalists, was known as "Strict Constructionists"; that is, we must be governed strictly by what's written.
K. At first, Mr. Hamilton's idea prevailed and John Adams, who was a Federalist, was elected as the second President.
1. However, Jefferson, the Antifederalist, continued to preach the doctrine of respect for the Constitution, and later, he was elected the third President.
**The Anti federalists of that time are the Democrats of our time, they were and still are, Liberal, Modernists, and "Loose Constructionists" when it comes to interpreting our Constitution.
**The Federalists of that time are the present day Replublicans, they for most are Conservative, Moderate and "Strict Constructionists" when interpreting the Constitution.
If Liberals get their way, the Constitution is simply a document that can be re-interpreted, and re-written as often as necessary to accomplish their own agenda.
Now you know the rest of the story..
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Comments
2. Jefferson's party, the Antifederalists, was known as "Strict Constructionists"; that is, we must be governed strictly by what's written
quote: **The Anti federalists of that time are the Democrats of our time, they were and still are, Liberal, Modernists, and "Loose Constructionists" when it comes to interpreting our Constitution.
**The Federalists of that time are the present day Replublicans, they for most are Conservative, Moderate and "Strict Constructionists" when interpreting the Constitution.
The ** above are backwards. The Anti-federalists of that time are the present day Conservatives (Libertaruians and many Republicans) while the Federalists are the present day liberals (Democrats and some Republicans)
The principle difference between the two (very simplified) is in their treatment of the 10th amendment which says quote:Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Federalists (and modern day democrats) ignore this completely. Anti-federalists believe that it has meaning, that powers NOT GRANTED in the constitution are forbidden to the federal government.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
quote:1. Hamilton's party, the Federalists, came to be known as "Loose Constructionists"; that is, to construe loosely the Constitution, on the grounds that we are at liberty to do anything that it does not specifically prohibit.
2. Jefferson's party, the Antifederalists, was known as "Strict Constructionists"; that is, we must be governed strictly by what's written
quote: **The Anti federalists of that time are the Democrats of our time, they were and still are, Liberal, Modernists, and "Loose Constructionists" when it comes to interpreting our Constitution.
**The Federalists of that time are the present day Replublicans, they for most are Conservative, Moderate and "Strict Constructionists" when interpreting the Constitution.
The ** above are backwards. The Anti-federalists of that time are the present day Conservatives (Libertaruians and many Republicans) while the Federalists are the present day liberals (Democrats and some Republicans)
The principle difference between the two (very simplified) is in their treatment of the 10th amendment which says quote:Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
Federalists (and modern day democrats) ignore this completely. Anti-federalists believe that it has meaning, that powers NOT GRANTED in the constitution are forbidden to the federal government.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
My mistake YOU are correct, I will make that correction.
Thanks for pointing that out, I was disrupted towards the end of my post.
Turbo
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
muley
**I love the smell of Hoppes #9 in the morning**
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
There is no such thing as "anti federalists" today.Modern day Republicans are just as guilty of Federal centralization as the democrats are.The Republicans are more responsible for centralization of government than any of the political parties of the past, or present.
Got a problem with the fact that the Federal government has too much power and control? Blame the Republicans.
"Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
-Bill Clinton(MTV interview)
I constantly hear this argument all the time.
Apparently most all of the States are perfectly happy with the function and the way the Federal Government does it's business; I've heard of any state argue this point nor challenge the power of the Federal Gov't to change their ways.
The state legislatures have every right and can enforce their individual state rights in any area they feel the Fed Gov't infringes, however, none have challenged in the whole time I've been aware of the politics in this country.
Frankly, I believe the States have simply surrendered their rights under the Tenth Amendment clause to the Federal Gov't in exchange for the many benefits they receive in the way of tax dollars, I could be wrong.
Anyway, rather than blaming the political parties, one ought to put the blame where it belongs at the feet of each states legislature.
As for Lincoln, and the civil war which was about retaining the Union intact, it's a moot point, the North won the war, and the south capitulated, and ended all hopes for ever being able to cesede from the Union of States, the war is over, no more crying, please.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Huh? You have never heard of the "First War for Southern Independence"?
You slept through the 50s & 60s (or weren't born yet & never heard about it.)
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
I do not think you have been looking hard enough to find incidences where the states stepped in to defend their rights against the Feds that were guaranteed in the constitution. There are many examples, especially pre-Lincoln, where the states "nullified" unconstitutional actions by the government, and some attempts at preventing the Federal government from encroaching on states rights, the most obvious, was the war of northern agression.
Hamilton was the greatest proponent for centralization of power. As far as he was concerned, the tenth amendment, and the constitution for that matter, were irrelevant. He took the position, as many Republicans have done and continue to do, that if the constitution doesnt say you cant do it, then you can do it. It is also interesting to note that Hamilton wanted a king instead of a president, and of course, he wanted to be king. As far as Hamilton being a "mastermind" because he divised a tax scheme that was constitutional-this is laughable. Article one states "the congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, to pay for debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states; BUT ALL DUTIES, IMPOSTS AND EXCICES SHALL BE UNIFORM THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES". I think it is very difficult to make the argument that the tariff and duty scheme that the Federalists/whigs came up with, were "uniform throughout the united states". The people did not think so either, and retalliated by voting Adams out of office, and placing a "strict constructionist(Jefferson)"in his place.
Hamilton felt that the Federal government would be the judge as tho whether or not their actions were constitutional, and Lincoln solidified that position.Lincoln put an end to the states griping about the unconstitutional actions of the Federal government, by going to war to spank the disobedient children. Its pretty safe to assume, that the states, upon realizing that if they questioned the constitutionality of the Federal governments actions they were going to get stomped, decided that they could not take on the Federal government when it behaved unconstitutionally. If they nullified an unconstitutional action, they faced the real threat of the government coming in and putting them in place. Hamilton wanted it, Lincoln got it.So the position that the states dont "complain" when the Federl government ignores the tenth amendment, is not because they necessary agree with the encroachment-it is because of fear of being spanked that they keep their mouth shut(these days, its safe to say that the states do not care one way or another about states rights-The Federalist-Whig-Republican faction has suceeded in pacifying the states)
Today, the Feds do not have to resort to force. Since they have assumed powers that were constitutionally supposed to be powers of the states, they now tax "the people" into submission. In order for "the people" to feel the benefits of those tax dollars, they have to be obedient to the wishes of the Federal government(it is interesting to note that Teddy Roosevelt(republican) was one of the first proponents for getting the 16th amendment into the constitution).
The Reagan(REPUBLICAN) administration wanted to have mandatory seat belt usage. Seat belts, if you go by the constitution(which doesnt really matter to Republicans, both past and present)is an issue for the states to decide. The administation quite nicely worked their way around the constitution, by blackmailing the states into submission. If you dont make mandatory seat belt laws, we are going to withhold funding. The Republicans, and their ancestors are responsible for the centralization of power in the hands of the Federal government. To call them "strict constitutional constructionists" is ridiculous.
Since you brought up the Civil war, it is interesting to note that when the Soviet Empire fell, Gorbachev insisted that he had the "right" to prevent the sattelite soviet countries from leaving the soviet Union-he cited the American Civil war as proof that he had the "right" to prevent their secession. The Republicans and the SWoviet Union see eye to eye on that issue.
And on another note-the author of your signature would be rolling in his grave if he knew someone was spouting the centralization song, while affixing his name to their signature.
"Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
-Bill Clinton(MTV interview)