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Support for gun ban grows (NH)
Josey1
Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
Support for gun ban grows
How to enforce Bike Week rule is lingering question
By MARIAN MORTON
Monitor staff
Laconia
LACONIA - Police Chief Bill Baker's plan to create a gun-free zone in Weirs Beach during Motorcycle Week has so far earned the blessing of city councilors, but most said yesterday they wanted to see proof that the rule could be enforced.
"I honestly have no idea what (the police) anticipate for an enforcement process," said Councilor Paul Bordeau. "We can pass it, the intent may be noble, but the actual enforcement of the law becomes the difficult part."
Baker has suggested the gun-free zone as a means to prevent outbreaks of violence between rival motorcycle gangs by prohibiting guns, even licensed ones, in certain parts of the Weirs during that week.
Gang violence has been on the rise in other parts of the country since a truce between the Hells Angels and the Outlaws unraveled earlier this year and has put the police and city officials on edge about the possibility of violent gang confrontations igniting here, too.
Baker said he has researched the legal and constitutional issues surrounding the creation of a gun-free zone and will meet with attorneys today for a final review of the idea.
Mayor Mark Fraser said the council could consider the gun-free zone as early as at its May 28 meeting, if Baker has submitted his proposal for the ordinance by then.
But both Baker and Fraser said that exactly how the ordinance would be enforced is still being discussed and that certain tactics may never be shared publicly, aside, perhaps, from signs that notify visitors of the new restriction.
"We don't want to tell people exactly how we're going to do it," Fraser said.
He said he would likely release a statement before Bike Week outlining any new policies on the event, but until then specifics on new ordinances would remain closed in the city council's nonpublic sessions.
"It would be premature now to say what we're discussing," he said.
The premise behind the new ordinance, councilors said, is simple and reasonable.
"There's no reason anyone needs a gun in Weirs Beach during Bike Week, period," Bordeau said.
But Councilor Rick Judkins said his enthusiasm for Baker's idea depends on how exactly the police department intends to keep guns out of Bike Week.
"If it's enforceable, I think it's great," he said.
Councilor Jim Cowan said he thinks the mere presence of police officers is a deterrent to crime during Bike Week.
"The thing that really makes me feel safe is seeing people in uniform, prominently and conspicuously in any number of areas," Cowan.
And, he said, the gun-free zone could be another tool for law enforcement to use to keep the crowds safe.
"It's a way to send people a message that the police and safety officials are very concerned, and they are aware and they want to prevent and forestall trouble," Cowan said.
Baker has said he is interested, for now, in having the gun-free zone in place only for this year's Bike Week. But Councilor Bob Luther said he would support making it a permanent city ordinance like others that have been created to apply just for Bike Week.
"Once we send the message that we say no, I can't imagine a city council would say later that it's okay to bring your guns to Motorcycle Week," Luther said.
Councilors said they did not know if, aside from the gun-free zone, they would be voting on any other Bike Week policy changes before the event starts on June 8. Since Bike Week 2001, the only significant policy change the city council has adopted was a ban on dogs on Lakeside Avenue to prevent fighting.
Judkins said that while he thinks the no-gun rule makes sense, it would only add an extra security measure to an event he already considers safe.
"I think we're doing everything that we reasonably can do," Judkins said. "I disagree with those that say we can't guarantee safety (at Bike Week) this year. My position is that we never can do that anyway, anywhere."
http://www.concordmonitor.com/stories/front2002/local/mgm_gun_free_bike_week_17y524628_2002.shtml
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
How to enforce Bike Week rule is lingering question
By MARIAN MORTON
Monitor staff
Laconia
LACONIA - Police Chief Bill Baker's plan to create a gun-free zone in Weirs Beach during Motorcycle Week has so far earned the blessing of city councilors, but most said yesterday they wanted to see proof that the rule could be enforced.
"I honestly have no idea what (the police) anticipate for an enforcement process," said Councilor Paul Bordeau. "We can pass it, the intent may be noble, but the actual enforcement of the law becomes the difficult part."
Baker has suggested the gun-free zone as a means to prevent outbreaks of violence between rival motorcycle gangs by prohibiting guns, even licensed ones, in certain parts of the Weirs during that week.
Gang violence has been on the rise in other parts of the country since a truce between the Hells Angels and the Outlaws unraveled earlier this year and has put the police and city officials on edge about the possibility of violent gang confrontations igniting here, too.
Baker said he has researched the legal and constitutional issues surrounding the creation of a gun-free zone and will meet with attorneys today for a final review of the idea.
Mayor Mark Fraser said the council could consider the gun-free zone as early as at its May 28 meeting, if Baker has submitted his proposal for the ordinance by then.
But both Baker and Fraser said that exactly how the ordinance would be enforced is still being discussed and that certain tactics may never be shared publicly, aside, perhaps, from signs that notify visitors of the new restriction.
"We don't want to tell people exactly how we're going to do it," Fraser said.
He said he would likely release a statement before Bike Week outlining any new policies on the event, but until then specifics on new ordinances would remain closed in the city council's nonpublic sessions.
"It would be premature now to say what we're discussing," he said.
The premise behind the new ordinance, councilors said, is simple and reasonable.
"There's no reason anyone needs a gun in Weirs Beach during Bike Week, period," Bordeau said.
But Councilor Rick Judkins said his enthusiasm for Baker's idea depends on how exactly the police department intends to keep guns out of Bike Week.
"If it's enforceable, I think it's great," he said.
Councilor Jim Cowan said he thinks the mere presence of police officers is a deterrent to crime during Bike Week.
"The thing that really makes me feel safe is seeing people in uniform, prominently and conspicuously in any number of areas," Cowan.
And, he said, the gun-free zone could be another tool for law enforcement to use to keep the crowds safe.
"It's a way to send people a message that the police and safety officials are very concerned, and they are aware and they want to prevent and forestall trouble," Cowan said.
Baker has said he is interested, for now, in having the gun-free zone in place only for this year's Bike Week. But Councilor Bob Luther said he would support making it a permanent city ordinance like others that have been created to apply just for Bike Week.
"Once we send the message that we say no, I can't imagine a city council would say later that it's okay to bring your guns to Motorcycle Week," Luther said.
Councilors said they did not know if, aside from the gun-free zone, they would be voting on any other Bike Week policy changes before the event starts on June 8. Since Bike Week 2001, the only significant policy change the city council has adopted was a ban on dogs on Lakeside Avenue to prevent fighting.
Judkins said that while he thinks the no-gun rule makes sense, it would only add an extra security measure to an event he already considers safe.
"I think we're doing everything that we reasonably can do," Judkins said. "I disagree with those that say we can't guarantee safety (at Bike Week) this year. My position is that we never can do that anyway, anywhere."
http://www.concordmonitor.com/stories/front2002/local/mgm_gun_free_bike_week_17y524628_2002.shtml
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Comments
Legal experts say N.H. Constitution could be obstacle
By JOHN KOZIOL
Staff Writer
LACONIA - A proposed gun-free zone during Bike Week may pass muster with the U.S. and - although a little trickier - maybe with the New Hampshire Constitution as well, say legal experts.
The gun-free zone is one option being explored by Laconia Police Chief William Baker as a means of reducing the likelihood of violence between rival motorcycle clubs during the June 8-16 event. The City Council is expected to take up the matter at its meeting next Monday and potentially at closed-door meeting scheduled for this evening.
On Monday, Claire Ebel, executive director of the New Hampshire Civil Liberties Union, Bob Hemeon, a partner with the Laconia law firm of Westcott, Millham and Dyer, and Franklin Pierce Law Center professor emeritus Dick Hesse all said the challenge for Baker and the City Council in passing a gun-free zone lies in the state, not the U.S., Constitution.
Ebel said the gun-free zone, "if it is evenly applied, and not just to the Hells Angels or bikers, but to everyone in the zone," is probably permissible under the U.S. Constitution.
Not a lawyer herself, Ebel urged Baker and the council to contact state Attorney General Philip McLaughlin to determine whether the gun-free zone would not similarly infringe on rights afforded gun owners in the New Hampshire Constitution. Hesse also said the AG needs to rule whether Laconia or only the Legislature has the authority to establish the gun-free zones.
Representatives from McLaughlin's office were unavailable for comment on Monday.
Ebel pointed out that the New Hampshire Constitution says all persons have the right to bear arms to defend themselves, their families, property and the state, which is much broader than the language of the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently interpreted the Second Amendment to mean that states have the right to maintain militias, rather than as an affirmation of a personal right to own guns, said Ebel.
Hemeon said his review of the Bike Week gun-free zone proposal indicates that there is a "legitimate chance to do that," noting that "we do have gun-free zones about schools and we also don't allow guns in courts."
Baker, as the pistol licensing authority in Laconia, "certainly would have the right to make certain conditions" regulating them, said Hemeon, who continued that if the gun-free zone was crafted to apply to a well-defined geographical area for "a limited time for a very specific purpose, then that's probably legal."
Hesse, who teaches constitutional law, said if Baker has "an adequate basis for the regulation," then he shouldn't face problems with the U.S. Constitution over the gun-free zone.
But the state Constitution is written differently, and New Hampshire's Supreme Court has had few test cases to set precedents on gun-free zones, said Hesse.
"Absent a really solid basis," for creating the zones, "the New Hampshire Constitution would probably not permit a pre-emptive strike if the police chief anticipates problems," said Hesse, but if "the chief can show a history of firearms problems over the years, the court could find justification."
Tonight's City Council executive session has been scheduled citing that portion of the state Right-to-Know Law which allows public bodies to meet privately if the discussion could reflect negatively on a person's or group's reputation.
John Koziol can be reached by calling 524-3800 ext. 5940 or by e-mail at jkoziol@citizen.com
http://www.fosters.com/citizen/news2002/May/21/lac0521e.htm
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
then a gun free state. Or do I make much ado
about nothing.
later,
bud
If it weren't for lawyers, I wouldn't need a lawyer.
Still, living on the fringes of that mess, I can readily understand their concern. I try not to go anywhere during Bike Week - and if I do, I am always carrying more than one firearm. 80+% of the people who show up are folks like Mudge (if I may take the liberty of citing him as an example) - good citizens who like their Harleys and rice burners. But the gang members who gravitate to the area . . . . let's just say their complete extinction would clearly improve the gene pool. I can remember times in the not-too-distant past when it looked like (fill in your favorite riot scene), when the NG was called out and selected members *were issued live ammo!* Given that history & events over the past year, the authorities' fears are very real and very justified.
But I do not trust the ones pushing this. Anecdotal evidence suggests Chief Baker is not a big supporter of the Second Amendment. And Dick Hesse, while an *outstanding* professor whom I much admire in the classroom, has political views which are far more in tune with Georgetown than NH; the Second Amendment is not part of his curriculum.
Besides, as noted, how will it be enforced? Metal detectors? LOL! Possibly good intentions, but the only people who will obey such a regulation would be the ones who would not be a problem anyway, just like the rest of this 'control' nonsense.
Edited by - Iconoclast on 05/22/2002 09:52:53
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~