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Concealed Carry Permit question? LEOs?

RamtinxxlRamtinxxl Member Posts: 9,480
edited January 2005 in General Discussion
Was chatting with an acquaintance this afternoon. He had attended the local carry permit class but had not obtained the permit because he is a state employee and was told that to have a weapon, even locked in the glove box in his personal vehicle parked on state property, would be grounds for his dismissal--actually would be a felony for which he could be arrested. He said he didn't go enough places outside of work and church (concealed carry in churches prohibited, too) to merit him obtaining the permit.

Additionally, he said he'd inquired of a city policeman that he encountered at a local Barnes & Noble about "what if he DID have a permit and was packing and because of a stretch or stoop, the weapon was noticed by a police officer?" The officer told him he'd be asked to leave the store. When he asked "Why?--since he would be within the law, having a permit and not being prohibited by the store's policy?" He was told that the "powers that be" over the local city police force believed that the only persons who should be armed were LEOs--those WITH a commission and badge--and NO ONE ELSE. My friend countered that the "unwritten policy" stated was not in accordance with the law and that he should have the right to carry anyway, if bearing a permit. He was told that if he were to "argue" or resist the officer when told to leave, the police would "charge him with disorderly conduct" or "resisting an officer" and he could be arrested and as a result of the arrest--LOSE HIS PERMIT PERMANENTLY!

Do any of you LEOs out there know of similar "unwritten policies" in other departments? Do any Concealed Carry Permit holders have any stories to relate? Is this common? Are permit holders often harassed because of it? I'm just learning about these things and sincerely want to know. I was really surprised to hear of this situation today. Help?

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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    Things like this can be problems in "shall issue" rural states which often have one or two large urban areas where the local police want to continue to exercise their authority (and restrictions)on CCWs and if they can no longer prohibit permits from being issued then they can do their best to restrict your CCW use while you are within their juristdiction. The same thing exists in California where the local PD or sheriffs offices issue CCWs which are vaild (in most cases) state wide. Natuarally a person who is issued a permit in a rural county like Modoc would be well served to leave his pistol at home if traveling into San Francisco where the local police are not at all fond of citizens carrying concealed firearms...permits or not.

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
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    NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As usual Mark is telling it the way it is in some locations.In VA our Governor signed a Bill into law that the State laws Right to carry applied in the entire State.By makeing State law over ride any County or City law that would restrict those with permits from excerciseing their Right to carry concealed.I hope to see many other States that issues CCP to follow the same step VA.did.

    Rugster




    "Toujours Pret"
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    mark christianmark christian Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 24,456 ******
    edited November -1
    VA is an excellent example rugster. While it is sad that it took a special law to enable all the citizens of Virgina the same right to personal pertection, it is even sadder that there are many states where the political will for such legislation does not exist. In those states many citizens in urban areas, where the need for personal protection is often (though not always) much greater, are denied the same rights as persons who resides just across some imaginary boundry line or city limt, perhaps less living less than a mile away from each other.

    "Nothing can ever be made 'idiot proof' because idiots are simply too clever"!
    Mark T. Christian
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    IncarcerationFacilitatorIncarcerationFacilitator Member Posts: 103 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hello there, Ramtinxxl. I've been a cop in CT for 9 years. To address your question, if a handgun was noticed by an officer, I would hope that said officer would verify that the person had a valid permit. That is all I would expect. No one has to leave a store while lawfull being there (not in violation of store's no gun policy) unless store manager wants them out, and that should be for just cause. Maybe that particular officer was new, or he somehow thought that he has the authority to do so (why, I do not know). I personally would LOVE to get arrested for what you stated above....the lawsuit would pay for that pool that my wife and kids want. You might risk losing your permit, or if you are very careless or reckless in exposing the gun, and cause alarm, it would be a misdemeanor breach of peace charge. Losing the permit would be the worst part. I would hope that a simple imprint on one's shirt wouldn't get the permit yanked....I would hope....
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    RamtinxxlRamtinxxl Member Posts: 9,480
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the responses. Sounds like you folks have REASONED and REASONABLE ideas for the proper handling of such a situation. I'm in the south (Louisiana) and am surprised that such an idea would come from the police force. However, our city has had the ravages of at least 2 (now arrested, indicted--one tried and sentenced) serial killers in the past 2 years. Maybe the LEOs here are "on edge" but it just seemed a bit "POLICE STATE'ish" to come across this way.

    Also the fact that state employees are barred from even possessing a weapon in their locked vehicle on state property seems a HUGE infringement of 2nd Amendment rights. Do state employees cease to be citizens when they take the job?

    That case up in Oklahoma with Weyerhauser--where the employees were fired when discovered to have hunting rifles in their vehicles (deer hunting season--plant in a rural area) still irks me. I'm hoping some level-headed judge (if there are any left) will get hold of that and hand down a REASONED ruling.
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    nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,018 ******
    edited November -1
    The police have no authority to ask anyone to leave private property. Only the property owner, or his representative, can tell anyone to leave private property.

    In Texas, "intentional failure to conceal," is a violation. An inadvertent slip, while embarrassing, is not a violation.

    We have had no problems at my PD with lawful gun toters, at least none that I heard of. I think Dallas has had a problem or two.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com the best gun auction site on the Net! Email gpd035@sbcglobal.net
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    CELTIC317CELTIC317 Member Posts: 136 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    IN MICIGAN .. A SHALL ISSUE STATE, IT IS LEGAL TO CARRY IN FULL VIEW SO IF DOMEONE IS CONCEALED BUT SEEN YOU ARE COVERED, AT LEEAST THAT IS WHAT THE LOCAL L.E. TOLD ME
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    WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think carrying concealed should in fact mean, that NOBODY can tell you're armed? If in fact an officer noticed that I was carrying a gun (which has never happened to me) I would expect to get thrown on the ground, and disarmed until I could explain why I had a gun, and produce the appropriate permit/lic. I would also be inclined to believe you heard only one officers opinion and shouldn't let it reflect on the entire department he/she represented.

    R/

    Dave
    th_bigclay.bmp
    People everywhere confuse what they read in newspapers with news.

    -- A. J. Liebling
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    FrogdogFrogdog Member Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Dave W.
    I think carrying concealed should in fact mean, that NOBODY can tell you're armed? If in fact an officer noticed that I was carrying a gun (which has never happened to me) I would expect to get thrown on the ground, and disarmed until I could explain why I had a gun, and produce the appropriate permit/lic.


    So I guess you are against open carry altogether, huh? You're welcome to your opinion but the way you put it sure sounds a little "anti-gun" to me. You're essentially saying that anyone carrying should automatically be considered a criminal and dealt with as such until they can prove otherwise. That's just no good. How many people would really want to carry if they risked getting roughed up or drawn down on by every police officer they encountered. As noted above, in VA we can carry open without a permit and concealed with one. There are only a few places you can't carry. I think we have a pretty good set-up. Maybe other states should take note.
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    chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In NH only the state can make regulations about carrying a weapon. We have a very explicit preemtion law here and no municipality can regulate firearms in any way except firearm business through zoning. If a LEO tries they can be held personally liable.

    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
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