Fear of more crime with more gun permits appears unfounded.

Josey1

Fear of more crime with more gun permits appears unfounded. Macomb Daily staff photo by Craig Gaffield Tom Potapa, who works at Peters Gun Shop in Roseville, takes a shot on the firing range.One side has argued the new concealed weapons law would turn Michigan into the Old West, where sidearms are everywhere and disputes that normally employ insults or blows instead erupt in gunfire.The other side championed deterrence; law-abiding citizens would be safer, and criminals may be less inclined to strike if their victims might return fire.But the data for weapons permits and violent crime don't support either view. In fact, one may not affect the other at all."It's partly a concern with the proliferation of all guns," said Michael Hodge, attorney for the now-inactive People Who Care About Kids, which opposed the new law."You may carry a gun in your car, which you're allowed to do with a concealed weapons permit, and in a moment of road rage you reach out and plug the guy next to you. That's an extreme, but it makes sense if more guns are around, somehow more will get used."But state and local law enforcement data indicate Macomb County falls in the middle of the pack among counties its size for armed robberies, homicides and felony weapons offenses - despite having six times the number of concealed weapon permits.In other words, greater permission to carry concealed weapons doesn't add to the crime problem, but it doesn't reduce it either."It seems to be a nullity both ways," said Macomb County Prosecutor Carl Marlinga. "People sometimes forget that these CCW permits have no effect at all on the number of guns out there. It only affects where some people can carry some of those guns."Between October 1997 and October 2001, guns killed 31 of the 76 reported homicide victims in Macomb County, or 40 percent. That's well below the state average of 67 percent, according to the Michigan State Police criminal statistics bureau.Of those 31 victims, four allegedly died at the hands of people licensed to carry concealed weapons - and two of those were armed suspects shot by police in a confrontation.A third was a shopkeeper who killed a suspect conducting an armed robbery at his store, and officials found no wrongdoing. Only one, an alleged love-triangle killing from Eastpointe now pending in the courts, qualified as a crime."Those statistics would reflect an indication that crime is down among Macomb County residents, and allowing more CCW permits for them won't make it increase," said state Sen. Alan Sanborn, R-Richmond, an original co-sponsor of the new law on CCW permits. "I've always been a strong advocate of the right to obtain CCW permits for people who obtain and use them properly."Since July 1, a new state law validated by the Michigan Supreme Court makes permits to carry concealed weapons widely accessible. Under the new law, gun boards cannot deny applications to anyone over age 21 with no criminal record and no history of mental illness, without a compelling legal reason.That change caused tens of thousands of people to seek permits statewide, and with the typical 4- to 6-month processing time some of those permits should be reaching residents now."It's not usually for hunting. Nearly 100 percent of the people I teach for CCWs want them for personal protection," said Jim Binder, a certified firearms instructor at Double Action Indoor Shooting Center and Gun Shop in Madison Heights.Binder, who teaches the state-required training course for CCW applicants, said he had a huge surge in business after the law change.He can name people who stopped a crime or saved their lives with CCWs, but he agrees most people who get them never had cause to use a gun before and probably won't."I've had my CCW going back to the '70s, and I've never once had to pull my gun on someone," he said. "You should always flee first. It's not real macho, but when your other choices will put you in a courtroom, the hospital or the grave, running's a good choice."Not everyone is so assured that people will be responsible."The laws on self-defense and deadly force are pretty complicated for lawyers and judges, people who are educated and trained in them," said Kent County Prosecutor William Forsyth. "And I fear we will have people who believe they were acting in self-defense when they do something, but will find out that under the law they were not."Forsyth was one of at least 10 county prosecutors statewide to resign their seats on gun boards in protest over the new law this summer.Before the change his county was very stringent in issuing permits, he said. They went largely to retired police officers or trained people in high-risk security jobs.Incidentally, Kent County also has a smaller portion of some crimes related to firearms than Macomb County. Guns account for only six of its 18 homicides last year. But Forsyth concedes that CCW permit policies probably aren't the reason."There are many other factors that probably have more to do with it, like employment rates, the demographics, the economy or other things, that are very different downstate," he said.In sharp contrast to Kent, Macomb County has maintained a "shall issue" permit policy, which is philosophically closest to the new state law.Officials said 12,000 to 13,000 people in Macomb County hold CCW permits - less than 2 percent of the county's population. That's six times more than any other county had before the law changed.In robberies, Macomb appears below the threshold of Kent, Genesee, Oakland and other counties of similar size. Local police reported 383 incidents to the state in 2000, compared to Kent's 740, Genesee's 737 and Oakland's 703. But Macomb reported 385 "weapons cases," about 100 more than each of the other three.A state official who compiled those records said the difference between Macomb and the others is most likely a "misreporting" by local agencies. Some may be counting an armed robbery with a handgun as a "weapons case" instead of robbery.Weapons cases are supposed to be offenses like illegal sale or transport of firearms, a felon in illegal possession of a firearm or reckless discharge of a firearm.Sanborn and Marlinga agreed on one thing, however: CCW permits probably don't affect crime rates because lawbreakers and criminals are two distinct groups of people, and what one group does with its guns has little effect on the other. http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=2756777&BRD=988&PAG=461&dept_id=141265 [This message has been edited by Josey1 (edited 12-10-2001).]

concealedG36

Just want to push this thread back to the top one more time...G36

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Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals