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On building a firearm from an 80% casting

alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
edited February 2002 in General Discussion
http://www.tanneryshop.com/
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Comments

  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    What does an 80% casting mean, exactly?And for what reason would you want it?
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullz, that's a casting that is 80% complete, about as accurate as casting can be done. Has to be finished by milling to final dimensions. probably some reaming and heat treating also. Why? To fire it and think to yourself: "I made this puppy!".I hope to get around to that some day!
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    On the handguns all work is done except cutting the slide rails.On the AR's the holes need drilled and the buffer tube threaded I am not sure about the other firearms.It looks to be something I might like to tinker with for the experience.[This message has been edited by alledan (edited 02-16-2002).]
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Damn. Thought I had stumbled upon a great way to save money on an expensive firearm.Sort of like buying all of the parts for a computer seperately and saving several hundred bucks.Didnt realize it would take a machine shop, a steel forge and a Bessemer blast furnace
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    You can check with the seller but I think the castings have been heat treated-but not sure.As i understand it from the ATF you can have the rails cut by a gunsmith as long as it is done under your supervision.
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, Bullz, lots of us know folks who have mills and such (I could do it at my old job off-hours if I wanted to, with CNC stuff to boot.) Heat treat is just a matter of knowing someone who knows someone who'll probably throw your part in with a load of other stuff, for a six-pack or a few bucks, long as you get the right hardness (fairly large tolerance). A guy I correspond with made himself a .50 BMG for around 1100 bucks. He bought the barrel and trigger assy., the rest he made from scratch. Still is subject to laws on purchased firearms, though.
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Alledan, do slide rails have to be hardened? I would think it would be tough machining if the casting was already heat-treated to finished specs, and the milling of the slide rails would reveal softer steel, as the heat-treat process usually is depth-dependent, meaning the outer shell is much harder on the Rockwell scale than the inside, so if you get down to .020" or so of material removed, it will be softer. I don't know what specs firearms are manufactured to, gotta buy me a print some day!
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    With these guns no serial no. is required but they have to have markings that allow ID of the owner if stolen.It can never be sold, traded or given away. It must stay with the builder or his family.
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    Tinberbeast, this is question I am trying to get answered at this time. Carbon heat treating will penetrste about .020 and cyanide treating will go about .030 more or less.Some of the castings he sells are aluminum and ceramic matrix metal. I don't know anyone has any problems with them or not in this area.[This message has been edited by alledan (edited 02-16-2002).]
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, Alledan, I'm just a curious sucker!
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    I would like to build the Sig this year and the Baretta next as the law says only one per year.I think building one would bring a person closer to the weapon. It is to easy to buy one at the shop or the shows.I think it would be a cool experience.
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hear you, Alledan!! First, I gotta build me a guitar. (already made the furniture, lol). I'm even going to build and fret the neck myself. If I add up the hours, a new Les Paul would cost less, but HEY!!! I MADE IT!! That's always something cool! Never knew about the one-a-year thing on guns, though.(It's also cool as hell to build stuff out of trees you cut down yourself. Why, I don't know, it just feels right!)
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  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To heat treat you must know what grade of steel you have to do it right.
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    Rosie, That too may be a real good question.Timberbeast, I never could do much with wood in building stuff especially guitars.I bought an old Oscar Schmidt guitar which was in the Gibson ES 335 configuration and tricked it up with new humbucking pickups and a Bigsby B-3 along with a few other goodies. The strings ride nice and close to the neck. With the gibson .010-.046 strings my fingers just seem to float over them like gliding over silk..I would definatrly love to be able to buy a vintage ES 335 but I can't come up with the several thousands of dollars to buy one.
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  • sandman2234sandman2234 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    To be sure Rosie, they must know. Too many different types of air hardening and oil hardening steels. Some can be both. Pick the metal that fits the application it is to be used for, allowing for your availability of that type of furnace. Only type I have ever used was air hardened (A-2). Used a vacumn furnace to treat it with, turned out a pretty gold hue.No scale, no distortions. Some types of hardening only does the outer skin of the part, others do the whole thing. Advantage of the surface hardening is the part still has the flexibility of a soft part, but the wear resistance of a harder one. Both can be a bear to machine, but the use of carbide cutters will allow you to machine parts up into the low 60's on the rockwell scale. Not easy, just possible. Building your own gun can definitely be a challange for the average person. Heck, even a good machinist can mess up a lot of steel.
    Have Gun, will travel
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Those 335's are great guitars, Alledan, Epiphone makes them, too, some Epi's are as good as the Gibsons. My fave now is a pre-1960 Melody Maker I added a layer of Mahogany to the top and routed in two humbuckers and threw a tune-o-matic bridge on. The sad thing is in the 80's, I sold a 59 Les Paul goldtop, a '58 Les Paul TV and a '62 Firebird. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    alledan,The carbon and cyanide treatments you are refering to are not heat-treatments as much as they are case-hardening. If they are 4140 or 4130 carbon steels, they can be saturate heat treated all the way through. If they are semi steel castings, what you have is what you get. If they are forged, they has some level of work hardening already.
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This is one of my castings I have stuck back.They take about 6-8 hrs to complete with a Jig and are a labor of love.Some misconceptions and errors are above.The castings are heat treated T6.They can then be anodized at home for surface hardening.They can not be completed to be sold commercially.They can be sold or given away,but when you count time,effort,tools and the casting it would be VERY expensive.I can sell factory stripped lowers all day for $120.It does not require a mill.Drill press and hand tools will suffice.Just wanted to clear up some of the legal mistakes above.cpermd
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    cpermd, Do you know if the steel castings are heat treated?
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    So....would this be a good idea if I could get access to a drill press and sufficient hand tools?
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    BullzeyeIt could be if your inclined to this type of work.A7) Does the GCA prohibit anyone from making a handgun, shotgun or rifle? With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a nonlicensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from making a semiautomatic assault weapon or assembling a nonsporting semiautomatic rifle or nonsporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machinegun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a federal or state agency. [18 U. S. C. 922( o), (r), (v), and 923, 27 CFR 178.39, 178.40, 178.41 and 179.105] [This message has been edited by alledan (edited 02-17-2002).]
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    I contacted the owner of the Tannery_shop and he confirms that the castings are heat treated. That puts away one problem.
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DangYou doubted me? cpermd
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  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
    No I didn't doubt-just re-affirming what I thought i read a while back.I would rather have it heat treated than to have soft metal shear away while firing-it makes for a real bad hair day! I don't see very well with my right eye dangling from my left ear.
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Another interesting thought is building your own rifle stock. I have a neighbor who is considering cutting down a big walnut tree in his yard. I've been thinking about how neat it would be to take a really nice chunk of it and make myself a new M1A stock. But, I don't have the right tools. Still, it would surely be a fun project.
    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
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