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Choice of two PREBAN AR Rifles,help
Josey1
Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
On one hand I got an excellent price on a Pre-Ban Colt,NIB R6601 with 2-20rd mags,cleaning kit and it has all the banned goodies.For $1400
On the other hand I got a deal on a NIB,Bushmaster AR-15 shorty,with 2-30rd mags and 1-20rd,case and all the banned goodies including a 6 position tactical stock for $1450.
Now my dillemma is that I am not familiar enough with the pre-ban AR's to know which is the better rifle.I've heard Colt in some circles but then I've heard Bushy is way better.I am buying it so I can put an Olympic Arms .40 SW upper on it and use it as a ranch rifle.If anyone has any constructive info I sure would appretiate it.
PS,I realize I could save half my money and get a full stock shorty but I want the collapsable stock and the investment value.Any and all help would be greatly appretiated.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
On the other hand I got a deal on a NIB,Bushmaster AR-15 shorty,with 2-30rd mags and 1-20rd,case and all the banned goodies including a 6 position tactical stock for $1450.
Now my dillemma is that I am not familiar enough with the pre-ban AR's to know which is the better rifle.I've heard Colt in some circles but then I've heard Bushy is way better.I am buying it so I can put an Olympic Arms .40 SW upper on it and use it as a ranch rifle.If anyone has any constructive info I sure would appretiate it.
PS,I realize I could save half my money and get a full stock shorty but I want the collapsable stock and the investment value.Any and all help would be greatly appretiated.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Comments
I'm not familuar enough with the Colt to know if the 6601 has the large holes or small holes (small is mil-spec) ... I can never remember which combination uses the off set screw and which uses the off set bushing, if it is a large hole model you will need one or the other to make it work, and it will never be as solid as with the Bushmaster (or any other mil-spec lower).
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The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
... there are so darn many models to choose from!
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
My 2-cents.
First, the Bushmaster cannot be an AR-15, as that is a Colt trademark. The Bushmaster is probably an XM-15, or some such.
I do not claim to be an expert on the various Colt models. I think the M6601 is a Match Target Heavy Barrel made without the bayonet lug, but made before the block and large fire control pins were introduced. If the Colt is blocked and has the large-pin fire control parts, I would go with the Bushmaster. (I love the collapsible stocks.) If the Colt is unblocked and has the small pins, I would go with the Colt.
A small plus with the Bushmaster would be the ability to attach the upper you mention with no adaptor pin, etc..
Either rifle NIB at this late date is quite a find. If you do not take the Bushmaster, I would be interested. If that sounds like a conflict with my advice, it is not. I have several Colts, but no Bushmasters.
Do you work for Colt? I only ask because you seem so protective of their AR-15 trade mark ... Seems kinda ironic that the AR stands for Armalite Rifle ...
By the way, is Colt ever going to introduce anything new to the world of firearms ... how about re-release any of thier 40 year old designs, or are they even going to buy anyone elses ideas? ... just wondering how long they can live on their name and the few 30-90 year old designs they still sell to the un-witting public.
Since they don't make any money on used guns I'd think they would need something to keep them afloat ... or are they still living on government contracts???
StirStirStir
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The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
... there are so darn many models to choose from!
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
Edited by - kimberkid on 06/02/2002 18:35:51
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
PS-Judge,I call the both AR-15 so everyone who is not familiar with each brands model #'s willknow what I am talking about,by the way aren't they called "Colt's" now?
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
Do you say you intend to "Zerox" something when you are making a copy on a Canon copy machine? Do you ask for a Kleenix when reaching for a box of Puffs? Do you ask for a piece of Scotch tape when reaching for a roll of Tuck tape? I think it is important to be as accurate as possible in speech and writing. An AR-15 is a particular rifle made more than 20 years ago by Colt, and that distinction is really important if what one really means is a Bushmaster XM15 post-ban, etc.. While all AR-15 Colt rifles are pre-ban, not all of the clones misidentified as AR-15 rifles are.
AR does not stand for ArmaLite Rifle, it stands for ArmaLite. If it stood for ArmaLite Rifle, the "AR" prefix would not have been applied to the AR-17 Shotgun, would it? Of course, Colt bought the rights to the design and got the AR-15 name as part of the deal. Since the military was testing the AR-15, a selective fire rifle, using the same name for the semi-automatic version probably seemed like good marketing. You will notice that none of the clone makers call their products "AR-15," and often have some kind of a disclaimer about trademarks. Like Winchester, Browning, Remington and many others, the designs of others than Sam Colt and Oliver Winchester, etc. have been built by the companies that bear their names.
I cannot defend the poor current product line of Colt. I have been very critical of it, and wrote Colt years ago with suggestions about improving the line. Nothing was done, and the company went under. KK mentions selling 40-year-old designs. Forty years would be a young design for a Colt! Only the AR-15 clone design is that young. The SAA is over 125 years old and the Government Model variations are over 90 years old, as is the I-frame revolver on which hte Python is based. Is anyone critical of the K-frame Smith & Wesson, which is even older? With the Anaconda reportedly coming back, a newer design will be back in production.
I am not sure how Colt is staying open, and, of course, it was the loss of the M16 contract cash cow, plus poor management, that put the company into bankruptcy back in the mid-1990s. I do know that the name is still worth a lot, and the quality of the guns being turned out is high. Apparently enough people are buying to keep the doors open.
One cannot deny the current demand for the old Colt designs. Demand exceeds supply for the Single Action Army, and most of the M1911-pattern pistols. Slowly, Colt is bringing back the designs that were discontinued when the company folded. Some, like the Pony PocketLite are best-in-class. I hope to see it back soon.
Seeing what Pythons bring on the used market, someone must like the old designs.
As far as "Colt's" instead of "Colt" as the accepted name, many Colt collectors do use the term "Colt's" in reference to the old name of Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company. I always considered it a bit of an affectation, and, besides, leaving out the possessive saves two keystrokes and a shift for those of us who are a bit lazy as typists.
As far as the semi-automatic AR-15 rifles being mil-spec, I do not believe they are. While they may have been built on the same machinery with many of the same parts, the testing required to insure mil-specs are met was not done on the AR-15, and there is no guarantee that such specs are met, as there is with the M16.
The pins I am talking about are the fire control pins. To prevent M16 fire control parts from being installed in semi-automatic Colt AR-15-style rifles, Colt made the later rifles with larger pins so the M16 parts cannot be installed. The pins are too large to go through the trigger and hammer from an M16. A block was added in the space behind the hammer to prevent installation of an auto-sear as well. How the large pins would prevent someone from easily reaming out the M16 pin holes has never been clear to me, but, then, of course, the change was merely symbolic in the first place to placate the anti-guners who are just sure that every AR-15 style rifle sold will be converted into a "machine gun."
Josey1, again I say, if you do not want the Bushmaster, I might. Please let me know if you pass on it by contacting me at judgecolt45@hotmail.com.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - Josey1 on 06/03/2002 10:20:44
Edited by - Josey1 on 06/03/2002 10:30:49
Josey, If you have to drill the reciever for a mag adaptor STOP! please look at Dalphon uppers and mags http://dalphon.com/conv.html Dalphon has been making pistol calibur conversions for AR "style" weapons longer than anyone in the business (except MAYBE Colt) Their mags are one peice with adaptors welded on the mag so there is no need for defacing a pre ban receiver (which to me, would devalue it reguardless of which one it was). Also, something that was not mentioned, if you do go with the Colt, you could always get a Colt upper receiver so that no offset bushing or pin is needed ... Or Dalphon might even be able to build your upper using the upper receiver that is currently on the weapon ... at least it would be worth asking about.
... options, its all about options!
*edit*
Geeez I type slow, when I started this reply you (Josey) had not responded yet!
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The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
... there are so darn many models to choose from!
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
Edited by - kimberkid on 06/03/2002 10:58:18
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Josey, I got my AR-15 (COLT) and had it converted to full-auto just before the cutoff date. I refer to it as an M-16 (ok..ok I know it's not) so people will know it's select fire and I don't have to 'splain that every time.
SURE HOPE NO ONE IS OFFENDED BY THAT!!!
Oh.....to answer your question...GET THE COLT
Mudge the precise
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
Mudge The Precise: To be VERY precise, might you identify your converted AR-15 as "An AR-15 convereted to select fire," or as "An M16 conversion?" Or "My toy?" I envy you.
Josey1: Buy the Colt and let me have the Bushmaster?
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Judge, are you looking for just a shorty Bushmaster or are you wanting those neat "toys" that the on Josey mentioned? If you just want a shorty I an give you a # to call to my favorite "assault weapon" store who stocks post bans for under $750.
Just a thought.
Oh and LTs Thanks,Josey
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - Josey1 on 06/03/2002 13:30:32