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From gun owners to gun toters
Josey1
Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
From gun owners to gun toters
By AL ELVIN, Of The Oakland Press June 02, 2002
June 2, 2002
WATERFORD TWP. - Dale Ulman doesn't want any trouble. He just wants to make sure that whenever, if ever, trouble finds him, he's ready.
That is why Ulman took part in a one-day, 111/2-hour class for obtaining a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
The course is conducted by Waterford police officers Mike Morgan, 32, of Waterford Township and Mike Harris, 29, of Flint, who established M & M Tactical Consultants Inc., a two-man business that helps turn law-abiding gun owners into gun toters through an in-depth, day-long class.
"Criminals always carry a firearm, and they don't care if they're legal or not," said Ulman, 38, of Ortonville. "It's the citizens that don't carry because the law has always been so restricted.
"(The new concealed weapons law) makes everything even."
In the past six months, the duo of Morgan and Harris have helped nearly 100 people meet the instruction qualifications of a new state law that allows law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons at any time of day.
Nearly 3,000 licenses have been issued since the law was passed July 1, 2001. Another 1,000 licenses are still pending, according to the Oakland County clerk's office. A record 5,600 permits were issued last year, more than the total for the years 2000 (2,696) and 1999 (2,382) combined.
The law requires only eight hours of instruction for civilians, including three hours of gun range time, but Ulman was glad to get the extra 31/2 hours of training that Morgan and Harris tossed into their class.
Before the statute took effect nearly a year ago, only those who owned businesses and had to transport large sums of money or who had some other major needs that could be documented were granted CCW permits. Applicants had to go before the gun board to state their reasons for wanting to legally carry concealed weapons, a process Oakland County prosecutor David Gorcyca would like reinstated.
Gorcyca said he wasn't against easing restrictions but would like to have more say on who is approved for the license and who is not.
"(The new law) stripped all prosecutors of using any discretion to deny permits," Gorcyca said. "Since the law took effect, I'm no longer on the gun board. I resigned because we don't have the right to exercise some discretion."
Ulman, who said he would have been eligible for the permit before the law was changed, did not have a problem paying the $140 registration fee for the class and said he was glad that it is a requirement by the state. Similar courses vary in price, as well as in the amount of hours and days involved in instruction.
"I was looking to learn something, and I wanted to get the best training I could," Ulman said. "I feel I got exactly what I was looking for from them. ... I was mainly interested in the training."
And that's exactly what M & M Tactical Consultants Morgan and Harris do - train, drill and demonstrate.
"You always need to prepare for a situation," Harris said. "You never know how anyone else is going to react. But the way you train is the way you'll react under stress."
The course, held on Sundays, usually begins at 9:30 a.m. at Gander Mountain outdoor shop near Summit Place mall in Waterford Township.
"We get a healthy geographical mix of people who all want a CCW permit for many reasons," Harris said. "Most of our students have some experience with using a firearm, but the course is actually designed for someone who has never done a lick of shooting before."
Bob Hege, 37, of Waterford, wanted to get the entire procedure over with before lawmakers amend the law.
"I'm afraid they're going to take the right away from us," said Hege, who took Morgan and Harris' class in early May. "I don't need to carry a firearm every day. But if I waited too long, I might have missed out."
Hege is not alone in his fear that the law might be repealed. Several gun owners at M & M's last course also said they were concerned that the law could be rescinded.
However, Gorcyca said that there are no such efforts in place and that the only thing in question regarding the controversial law is if something will be done to increase the number of places dubbed "gun-free zones."
Firearms are prohibited in some places, regardless of the permit. Restrictions include, among other places, schools, universities and colleges, places of worship, casinos and arenas. Municipal offices, however, are not on the list.
"Governmental buildings are not included in gun-free zones," Gorcyca said. "I think there is talk about adding governmental buildings to the list."
Ulman said he hopes opponents of the CCW law understand that most of the people paying more than $100 for a class, and nearly $100 more just to obtain the permit ,aren't likely to cause any trouble.
"They might think it's a lot of yahoos trying to get the permit," he said. "But everyone in the class I went to were professional men."
In fact, at M &M's most recent class, there were more participants who were interested in getting the permit to be legal when dwelling around property in northern Michigan and while hunting. Only a handful were mainly concerned with toting firearms as a means of protection.
The instructors did not disappoint the few who were there for the purpose of learning how to defend themselves with their firearms and what their rights are, just in case something ever happens.
Morgan and Harris run through several real-life demonstrations to show how fast a situation can develop, even when harm is at least 21 feet away.
Morgan explains all of the legal ramifications when using a firearm for protection, while giving the group a glimpse of what a real gunfight is like. He was involved in an on-duty shooting and gave the class advice about how to handle the post-shooting questioning.
"If I'm a police officer coming to your house after a shooting, I'm going to want to know everything when I arrive on the scene," he said. "I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions. But don't say anything, at least not until you have a lawyer there.
"Even as an officer, when I had my incident, I didn't say anything until my union rep came."
Morgan also instructed the students on how to deal with an officer when being stopped, whether in a car or on foot. The law states that someone carrying a firearm must divulge that information to an officer immediately after being stopped, Morgan said.
"The more someone works with me, the more I'm going to work with them," he said.
Following a brief written test and a lunch break, students headed to Target Sports in Royal Oak.
At the gun range, Harris served as the instructor for three hours, while Morgan discussed different ways of carrying a concealed weapon while keeping the firearm hidden.
Each student had to squeeze off more than 100 rounds - hitting a target about 10 feet away with a level of decent accuracy - which turned out to be no problem for the group of experienced shooters.
Finally, shortly after 9 p.m., the daylong class was over, and Morgan and Harris began passing out class completion certificates.
Harris couldn't let his pupils leave without giving them some last-minute advice.
"Remember, every round you fire, you are responsible for," he said.
But the process still wasn't over. As the students left, they prepared for the next step - going through the other requirements, once the class is finished.
Those applying for a CCW permit must submit an application to the county clerk's office, where they have to pay three separate entities with three different methods of payment. The total of fees paid is $99.
"I still haven't done it yet," Hege said, nearly two weeks after taking the class. "And that's part of it. I would like to just go in and pay the fingerprinting fees and get it over right then."
The fingerprints are checked by the FBI while the Oakland County Gun Board reviews applications and possible prior convictions of CCW candidates.
After finishing the application process, there still is a waiting period of six to eight weeks, something that did not bother Ulman: "It took about six weeks, but it's not like I was in a hurry to go running around with a gun and blurt out that I have a permit. If that's what you're about, you shouldn't have done all of this, anyway."
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4315471&BRD=982&PAG=461&dept_id=467992
cThe Oakland Press 2002
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
By AL ELVIN, Of The Oakland Press June 02, 2002
June 2, 2002
WATERFORD TWP. - Dale Ulman doesn't want any trouble. He just wants to make sure that whenever, if ever, trouble finds him, he's ready.
That is why Ulman took part in a one-day, 111/2-hour class for obtaining a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
The course is conducted by Waterford police officers Mike Morgan, 32, of Waterford Township and Mike Harris, 29, of Flint, who established M & M Tactical Consultants Inc., a two-man business that helps turn law-abiding gun owners into gun toters through an in-depth, day-long class.
"Criminals always carry a firearm, and they don't care if they're legal or not," said Ulman, 38, of Ortonville. "It's the citizens that don't carry because the law has always been so restricted.
"(The new concealed weapons law) makes everything even."
In the past six months, the duo of Morgan and Harris have helped nearly 100 people meet the instruction qualifications of a new state law that allows law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons at any time of day.
Nearly 3,000 licenses have been issued since the law was passed July 1, 2001. Another 1,000 licenses are still pending, according to the Oakland County clerk's office. A record 5,600 permits were issued last year, more than the total for the years 2000 (2,696) and 1999 (2,382) combined.
The law requires only eight hours of instruction for civilians, including three hours of gun range time, but Ulman was glad to get the extra 31/2 hours of training that Morgan and Harris tossed into their class.
Before the statute took effect nearly a year ago, only those who owned businesses and had to transport large sums of money or who had some other major needs that could be documented were granted CCW permits. Applicants had to go before the gun board to state their reasons for wanting to legally carry concealed weapons, a process Oakland County prosecutor David Gorcyca would like reinstated.
Gorcyca said he wasn't against easing restrictions but would like to have more say on who is approved for the license and who is not.
"(The new law) stripped all prosecutors of using any discretion to deny permits," Gorcyca said. "Since the law took effect, I'm no longer on the gun board. I resigned because we don't have the right to exercise some discretion."
Ulman, who said he would have been eligible for the permit before the law was changed, did not have a problem paying the $140 registration fee for the class and said he was glad that it is a requirement by the state. Similar courses vary in price, as well as in the amount of hours and days involved in instruction.
"I was looking to learn something, and I wanted to get the best training I could," Ulman said. "I feel I got exactly what I was looking for from them. ... I was mainly interested in the training."
And that's exactly what M & M Tactical Consultants Morgan and Harris do - train, drill and demonstrate.
"You always need to prepare for a situation," Harris said. "You never know how anyone else is going to react. But the way you train is the way you'll react under stress."
The course, held on Sundays, usually begins at 9:30 a.m. at Gander Mountain outdoor shop near Summit Place mall in Waterford Township.
"We get a healthy geographical mix of people who all want a CCW permit for many reasons," Harris said. "Most of our students have some experience with using a firearm, but the course is actually designed for someone who has never done a lick of shooting before."
Bob Hege, 37, of Waterford, wanted to get the entire procedure over with before lawmakers amend the law.
"I'm afraid they're going to take the right away from us," said Hege, who took Morgan and Harris' class in early May. "I don't need to carry a firearm every day. But if I waited too long, I might have missed out."
Hege is not alone in his fear that the law might be repealed. Several gun owners at M & M's last course also said they were concerned that the law could be rescinded.
However, Gorcyca said that there are no such efforts in place and that the only thing in question regarding the controversial law is if something will be done to increase the number of places dubbed "gun-free zones."
Firearms are prohibited in some places, regardless of the permit. Restrictions include, among other places, schools, universities and colleges, places of worship, casinos and arenas. Municipal offices, however, are not on the list.
"Governmental buildings are not included in gun-free zones," Gorcyca said. "I think there is talk about adding governmental buildings to the list."
Ulman said he hopes opponents of the CCW law understand that most of the people paying more than $100 for a class, and nearly $100 more just to obtain the permit ,aren't likely to cause any trouble.
"They might think it's a lot of yahoos trying to get the permit," he said. "But everyone in the class I went to were professional men."
In fact, at M &M's most recent class, there were more participants who were interested in getting the permit to be legal when dwelling around property in northern Michigan and while hunting. Only a handful were mainly concerned with toting firearms as a means of protection.
The instructors did not disappoint the few who were there for the purpose of learning how to defend themselves with their firearms and what their rights are, just in case something ever happens.
Morgan and Harris run through several real-life demonstrations to show how fast a situation can develop, even when harm is at least 21 feet away.
Morgan explains all of the legal ramifications when using a firearm for protection, while giving the group a glimpse of what a real gunfight is like. He was involved in an on-duty shooting and gave the class advice about how to handle the post-shooting questioning.
"If I'm a police officer coming to your house after a shooting, I'm going to want to know everything when I arrive on the scene," he said. "I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions. But don't say anything, at least not until you have a lawyer there.
"Even as an officer, when I had my incident, I didn't say anything until my union rep came."
Morgan also instructed the students on how to deal with an officer when being stopped, whether in a car or on foot. The law states that someone carrying a firearm must divulge that information to an officer immediately after being stopped, Morgan said.
"The more someone works with me, the more I'm going to work with them," he said.
Following a brief written test and a lunch break, students headed to Target Sports in Royal Oak.
At the gun range, Harris served as the instructor for three hours, while Morgan discussed different ways of carrying a concealed weapon while keeping the firearm hidden.
Each student had to squeeze off more than 100 rounds - hitting a target about 10 feet away with a level of decent accuracy - which turned out to be no problem for the group of experienced shooters.
Finally, shortly after 9 p.m., the daylong class was over, and Morgan and Harris began passing out class completion certificates.
Harris couldn't let his pupils leave without giving them some last-minute advice.
"Remember, every round you fire, you are responsible for," he said.
But the process still wasn't over. As the students left, they prepared for the next step - going through the other requirements, once the class is finished.
Those applying for a CCW permit must submit an application to the county clerk's office, where they have to pay three separate entities with three different methods of payment. The total of fees paid is $99.
"I still haven't done it yet," Hege said, nearly two weeks after taking the class. "And that's part of it. I would like to just go in and pay the fingerprinting fees and get it over right then."
The fingerprints are checked by the FBI while the Oakland County Gun Board reviews applications and possible prior convictions of CCW candidates.
After finishing the application process, there still is a waiting period of six to eight weeks, something that did not bother Ulman: "It took about six weeks, but it's not like I was in a hurry to go running around with a gun and blurt out that I have a permit. If that's what you're about, you shouldn't have done all of this, anyway."
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4315471&BRD=982&PAG=461&dept_id=467992
cThe Oakland Press 2002
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878