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Guns Pilots and Politicians
Josey1
Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
Guns Pilots and Politicians
By Joe Guzzardi - View From Lodi, CA
HEY FRITZ and THE REST OF YOU CRY BABIIES..
Last month, I visited Guatemala City. On the first morning in town, I took the car to the local gas station for a fill-up.
Five or six armed guards patrolled the station. Some carried guns in holsters; others had rifles and bayonets.
From the gas station, I went to the shopping mall. At the mall, dozens of pistol-packing guards roamed the parking lot and strolled up down the aisles of the various shops. Everywhere in Guatemala--stores, dentist offices and doughnut shops--armed guards are plainly in sight.
These guards aren't retired military men. Nor are they educated and trained specialists. These are young men, most of whom have never been to school, down from the mountains to the big city to earn $125 a month.
I asked a local official what would happen if, through some misunderstanding, I were shot and killed. The official replied that, since I am an American, an investigation would be opened. But, the official quickly added, the investigation would be closed before the day's end. The guard would keep his job and the incident would quickly fade from view. To leave Guatemala and return to the U.S. where a heated debate about whether airline pilots should be armed is quite a transition.
Frankly, I don't see the issue. The pilots want to be armed and the public supports the pilots. The House of Representatives, by a vote of 310-113 favors the pilots and the people.
What more is there?
According to U.S. Senator Fritz Hollings (D-S.C.) and Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, guns in the cockpit are a bad idea. President George W. Bush, of all people, is said to agree with Hollings.
In May, Hollings introduced S. 2497 which would require the doors leading to the cockpit to remain closed and locked during flight. Hollings referenced El Al as an international airline that locks doors, doesn't permit firearms in the cockpit and hasn't had a hijacking in 34 years.
According to Hollings, the U.S. should follow Israel's example. But there is much more to the El Al policy that Hollings didn't mention.
First, the pre-flight security at El Al is much more extensive than anyone can imagine. Returning from Guatemala, my carry-on luggage was opened three times: at the ticket counter, the security checkpoint and at the gate. This level of fastidiousness is what awaits those who really want to copy El Al's system. Expect three hours to check-in.
Although El Al pilots are no longer armed, the airline has taken several other steps to thwart terrorism. El Al has placed hardened "man trap" double doors to the cockpit, installed hardened bulkheads and other classified defensive equipment.
El Al places an armed guard at the front of the aircraft. The guard has orders to shoot to kill if warnings to stay back are not followed. Several armed air marshals are strategically seated throughout the cabin. They too are instructed to shot to kill.
So while the El Al pilots may not have guns, as many as five or six trained marksmen on every flight are prepared to kill terrorists.
Hollings opposes guns because he fears that gunfire could shatter windshields that would lead to someone being sucked out of the aircraft. But, according to Captain Duane Woerth, President of the Airline Pilots Association, guns would be aimed backwards toward the door thus minimizing the possibility of bullets going through the window.
And, adds Woerth, if the in-flight situation has reached the crisis point of terrorists in the cockpit about to take control, then any other outcome -- including gunfire -- is preferable.
If, after all is said and done pilots are permitted to carry guns, then those like Senator Hollings who are opposed still have options. For those who think pilots are nothing more than "cowboys" or "renegades," as Hollings has suggested, they can drive, take the bus or train or take a cruise ship.
Traveling by any means is a crap-shoot. What legislation would have protected the Phoenix-bound Miami passengers from the allegedly drunken Air West pilots Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes?
And armed pilots are nothing new. In the 1970s, Captain Stephen Luckey, Chairman of the National Flight Security Committee of the Airline Pilots Association, was trained by the FBI to use a weapon during flights. A rash of hijackings plagued the airline industry at the time.
I'm backing Captains Woerth and Luckey.
As for Hollings, he can go Greyhound. http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=3531
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
By Joe Guzzardi - View From Lodi, CA
HEY FRITZ and THE REST OF YOU CRY BABIIES..
Last month, I visited Guatemala City. On the first morning in town, I took the car to the local gas station for a fill-up.
Five or six armed guards patrolled the station. Some carried guns in holsters; others had rifles and bayonets.
From the gas station, I went to the shopping mall. At the mall, dozens of pistol-packing guards roamed the parking lot and strolled up down the aisles of the various shops. Everywhere in Guatemala--stores, dentist offices and doughnut shops--armed guards are plainly in sight.
These guards aren't retired military men. Nor are they educated and trained specialists. These are young men, most of whom have never been to school, down from the mountains to the big city to earn $125 a month.
I asked a local official what would happen if, through some misunderstanding, I were shot and killed. The official replied that, since I am an American, an investigation would be opened. But, the official quickly added, the investigation would be closed before the day's end. The guard would keep his job and the incident would quickly fade from view. To leave Guatemala and return to the U.S. where a heated debate about whether airline pilots should be armed is quite a transition.
Frankly, I don't see the issue. The pilots want to be armed and the public supports the pilots. The House of Representatives, by a vote of 310-113 favors the pilots and the people.
What more is there?
According to U.S. Senator Fritz Hollings (D-S.C.) and Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, guns in the cockpit are a bad idea. President George W. Bush, of all people, is said to agree with Hollings.
In May, Hollings introduced S. 2497 which would require the doors leading to the cockpit to remain closed and locked during flight. Hollings referenced El Al as an international airline that locks doors, doesn't permit firearms in the cockpit and hasn't had a hijacking in 34 years.
According to Hollings, the U.S. should follow Israel's example. But there is much more to the El Al policy that Hollings didn't mention.
First, the pre-flight security at El Al is much more extensive than anyone can imagine. Returning from Guatemala, my carry-on luggage was opened three times: at the ticket counter, the security checkpoint and at the gate. This level of fastidiousness is what awaits those who really want to copy El Al's system. Expect three hours to check-in.
Although El Al pilots are no longer armed, the airline has taken several other steps to thwart terrorism. El Al has placed hardened "man trap" double doors to the cockpit, installed hardened bulkheads and other classified defensive equipment.
El Al places an armed guard at the front of the aircraft. The guard has orders to shoot to kill if warnings to stay back are not followed. Several armed air marshals are strategically seated throughout the cabin. They too are instructed to shot to kill.
So while the El Al pilots may not have guns, as many as five or six trained marksmen on every flight are prepared to kill terrorists.
Hollings opposes guns because he fears that gunfire could shatter windshields that would lead to someone being sucked out of the aircraft. But, according to Captain Duane Woerth, President of the Airline Pilots Association, guns would be aimed backwards toward the door thus minimizing the possibility of bullets going through the window.
And, adds Woerth, if the in-flight situation has reached the crisis point of terrorists in the cockpit about to take control, then any other outcome -- including gunfire -- is preferable.
If, after all is said and done pilots are permitted to carry guns, then those like Senator Hollings who are opposed still have options. For those who think pilots are nothing more than "cowboys" or "renegades," as Hollings has suggested, they can drive, take the bus or train or take a cruise ship.
Traveling by any means is a crap-shoot. What legislation would have protected the Phoenix-bound Miami passengers from the allegedly drunken Air West pilots Thomas Cloyd and Christopher Hughes?
And armed pilots are nothing new. In the 1970s, Captain Stephen Luckey, Chairman of the National Flight Security Committee of the Airline Pilots Association, was trained by the FBI to use a weapon during flights. A rash of hijackings plagued the airline industry at the time.
I'm backing Captains Woerth and Luckey.
As for Hollings, he can go Greyhound. http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=3531
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Comments
By Bill McIntyre August 07, 2002
Times-Democrat Staff Photo/Roselie Malone
LETHAL FORCE: Pilots, like this one at the Clark Brothers gun range in Opal, practice handgun shooting while Congress debates legislation that would arm them in the cockpit.
As Congress lingers over legislation that would arm pilots with pistols to prevent a repeat of the terrorist attacks last fall, commercial airline flight crews living in Fauquier County appear ready, willing, and able to arm themselves and take on the proposed safety measure.
John King, a 33-year veteran pilot for United Airlines, lives in Midland and regularly flies jets carrying more than 250 passengers and crew. He confessed that passage of the pending legislation could put him in the position of taking a life, which is contrary to his beliefs.
But he also declared that saving lives onboard his plane is a higher priority.
"I would have no problem at all using a firearm to prevent a terrorist threat to take over the plane," he said.
Other pilots and flight attendants living in the county share King's commitment.
Jerry O'Hara, an American Airlines pilot with more than a decade of experience, supports the legislation. Not currently a gun owner, he admitted that he would voluntarily carry a pistol to defend the cockpit if it were allowed, and that he would not be reluctant to use it.
"I would have no hesitation at all," he said.
Jeff Bakewell, an 11-year veteran of United Airlines, flies 747 jets. Before joining the commercial airline ranks he was an Air Force pilot for 10 years, flying F-4 and F-16 fighter jets. He affirmed that he would not hesitate to use a pistol to defend the cockpit from an intruder.
"If anyone crosses the line that defines the cockpit and they are uninvited, I don't care what happens to him after that. I would rather pull the trigger than use (the) ax (stored in the cockpit)," he said.
Mike King, a jet pilot for American Airlines and John King's nephew, has a lot of questions about how to implement a program arming pilots in the cockpit. But he has no doubts about using the gun to stop a terrorist attack.
"I would have no trouble pulling the trigger," he said.
Doug Jocz piloted jets for Eastern Airlines for seven years before joining United Airlines a dozen years ago. He is an expert in handgun use with the Air National Guard and favors passage of the legislation.
"As a last resort, I would not hesitate to use a gun to defend the cockpit," he said.
Beth Sommer, a 10-year veteran American Airlines flight attendant who knew two pilots killed during the 9/11 attack, supports arming pilots to defend the cockpit. She firmly believes that pilots, many of whom are military trained, would be effective in securing the cockpit from attack.
"They can be entrusted with handling the defense of that aircraft," she said.
Key vote in September
The U.S. House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to let pilots carry guns. The Senate is expected to vote on the controversial measure in September.
Although the Bush administration initially said it was opposed to the idea of guns in the cockpit, last week Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta asked for a new look at the issue following the forced resignation of John Magaw, an outspoken opponent of the proposal.
The two major commercial airline pilots unions favor the pending measures and continue to push for its passage.
The Allied Pilots Association called arming pilots a safety issue.
"Properly screened and trained commercial airline pilots should have the right to be armed with a firearm as the last line of defense of the cockpit, in an effort to maximize the likelihood for success in getting the aircraft on the ground and saving the lives of passengers and crew," according to an APA report.
The Airline Pilots Association, or ALPA, favors arming pilots as the last line of defense if any kind of terrorist action occurs as it did on Sept. 11. Anya Piazza, a spokeswoman for ALPA, said firearms are the tail end of a security strategy that includes fortifying the cockpit doors and screening baggage.
"It's an important step. We want to give the pilots a last line of defense some kind of a lethal weapon they can use to fight against lethal force," she said.
Alternative to jet fighters
As Congress debates the proposal, pilots are quietly outraged over the delay to arm them. Every pilot who spoke with the Times-Democrat questioned the integrity of political opposition to arming pilots, particularly when government officials are willing to order fighter jets to shoot down a wayward commercial airliner.
Bakewell, a former F-16 fighter pilot, called the policy "strange." He explained that the government is willing to let F-16s shoot down an entire passenger plane, killing all the people on board, instead of letting it potentially crash into a building. But, he said, the same government is debating whether to take the chance of letting a pilot be armed to eliminate a terrorist threat.
"It's kind of silly that they are willing to shoot us down but they are not willing to give us a last chance at defense," he said.
Sommer agreed. "It bothers me to the extreme that they are willing to scramble the F-16s to take out an airliner. It's very contradictory," she said.
Jocz pinned his support for the armed pilots proposals on the government's policy to shoot down wayward commercial jets.
"The government is going to shoot the jet down if a terrorist takes it over. So as a last resort in defense of the cockpit it would be good for pilots to have a gun up there," he said.
Outside of the political arena, local pilots recognize that the flying public and other pilots have concerns about guns in the cockpit.
O'Hara said about one out of five pilots oppose the idea of adding guns to the cockpit for safety. He said pilot support for the legislation is likely but by no means is it a "slam dunk."
Polls show overwhelming support among passengers for the guns-in-the-cockpit proposals, but some people harbor fears that pilots might adopt a so-called "cowboy mentality" and make air safety matters worse.
John King understands their fears but they also disturb him. "It is frustrating that passengers might look at the crew as the enemy," he said, explaining that pilots are rigorously screened, trained and re-trained on an on-going basis to prevent pilot bravado.
Guns in airplanes are not new
King noted that firearms onboard airliners are nothing new. Many commercial airline passengers already fly armed, including county sheriffs, FBI and Secret Service agents, Sky Marshals, postal inspectors and foreign bodyguards of foreign dignitaries.
Fifty years ago pilots had to hand-carry the U.S. mail and were therefore required by postal regulations to carry guns. That regulation came in handy on July 6, 1954, when an attack by a would-be hijacker onboard an American Airlines DC-6 was averted.
The hijacker entered the cockpit and threatened the pilot in command. The pilot shot and killed the hijacker, Raymond Kuchenmeiser, saving the 58 passengers and crew.
King said the terrorist attacks nearly a year ago have changed the reality of air travel and so the industry must change as well. "The ball game is 180 degrees changed," he concluded.
Bill McIntyre can be reached at bmcintyre@timespapers.com.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=4972016&BRD=1904&PAG=461&dept_id=127458&rfi=6
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878