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I Just Read an Amazing Article!
Josey1
Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
I Just Read an Amazing Article!
By John McEnroe Published 06. 14. 02 at 20:31 Sierra Time
That was an amazing article.....Walker, William. "Shooting galleries prosper, gun shows run daily and concealed weapons are no big thing." TheStat.com 9 June 2002
Mr. Walker masterfully managed to include just about every piece of misinformation about guns, gun owners, and gun law in the United States!
I'd like to pick a couple of things and send short web links for your readers to visit and read for themselves.
Mr. Walker implies that the Texas "Gun Show loophole" is huge problem because so many criminals love going to American gun shows (where police watch what they do)..... Yes, in the United States 0.7% of crime guns are purchased at gun shows.... US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics. EIGHTEEN PERCENT OF STATE PRISONERS COMMITTED THEIR CRIMES
WHILE ARMED. Nine Percent of State Prisoners Fired Their Weapons During the Offense. 4 November 2001 202/307-0784
Guns are 43 times more likely to kill friends and family than to defend them from attack.....Felbeck, David K. Evaluating the "43 times" fallacy by David K. Felbeck ( Director, Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners) KABA 8/11/2000
In Texas it is implied that the "proliferation of weapons" causes criminal behavior. One only has to look at a copy of 2000 International Crime Victims Survey to see that the recent gun control strategies of Australia & Great Britain is actually the way to lead all other rich countries in crime! (Copies of the report can be obtained from Infodesk WODC, Room KO 011, P.O Box 20301, 2500 EH The Hague, The Netherlands) the "A nation of criminals" From The Economist print edition. 22 February 2001
I guess I should forgive Mr. Walker for his ignorance. He lives and works in the high crime, totally unarmed Washington, D.C., where only criminals have guns. I live in one of the 33 shall issue concealed handgun license states in the United States of America, where criminals know that there may not be a 20 minute delay for a 911 call response. Darn it, we in Oregon and 32 other states have to continue to suffer the lower crime rate that coincidentally occurs (Ratnesar, Romesh. "SHOULD YOU CARRY A GUN? A New study argues for concealed weapons," VOL. 151 NO. 26 6 July 1998 TIME VOL. 151 NO. 26)
Fortunately for Canadians, to whom the original article was written, you are moving in the direction of Washington, D.C. You also have the bonus of spending hundreds of millions of dollars for gun registration and confiscation! Removing funding from useful Canadian law enforcement duties is sure to move you into contention for a top 10 position in the 2004 International Crime Victims Survey!
Thank goodness we in the US had (almost) gun free zones like Chicago, Massachusetts, New York City, and Washington, D.C. included in the last survey to keep us in seventh place!
I hope Mr. Walker doesn't read below the dotted line in this note...
Thanks for listening.
John McEnroe
www.mcenroe.cc
One of the most prominent criminologists in the world, Marvin Wolfgang, comments on Kleck's research concerning defensive gun use (see: How often are guns used in self-defense?)
"I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. If I were Mustapha Mond of Brave New World, I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police. I hate guns--ugly, nasty instruments designed to kill people.
... What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator...I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research.
Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence. The National Crime Victim Survey does not directly contravene this latest survey, nor do the Mauser and Hart studies.
... Nevertheless, the methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it.
... The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well." --- Marvin E. Wofgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.)
http://www.sierratimes.com/02/06/14/edjm061402.htm
c 2002 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted)
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
By John McEnroe Published 06. 14. 02 at 20:31 Sierra Time
That was an amazing article.....Walker, William. "Shooting galleries prosper, gun shows run daily and concealed weapons are no big thing." TheStat.com 9 June 2002
Mr. Walker masterfully managed to include just about every piece of misinformation about guns, gun owners, and gun law in the United States!
I'd like to pick a couple of things and send short web links for your readers to visit and read for themselves.
Mr. Walker implies that the Texas "Gun Show loophole" is huge problem because so many criminals love going to American gun shows (where police watch what they do)..... Yes, in the United States 0.7% of crime guns are purchased at gun shows.... US Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics. EIGHTEEN PERCENT OF STATE PRISONERS COMMITTED THEIR CRIMES
WHILE ARMED. Nine Percent of State Prisoners Fired Their Weapons During the Offense. 4 November 2001 202/307-0784
Guns are 43 times more likely to kill friends and family than to defend them from attack.....Felbeck, David K. Evaluating the "43 times" fallacy by David K. Felbeck ( Director, Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners) KABA 8/11/2000
In Texas it is implied that the "proliferation of weapons" causes criminal behavior. One only has to look at a copy of 2000 International Crime Victims Survey to see that the recent gun control strategies of Australia & Great Britain is actually the way to lead all other rich countries in crime! (Copies of the report can be obtained from Infodesk WODC, Room KO 011, P.O Box 20301, 2500 EH The Hague, The Netherlands) the "A nation of criminals" From The Economist print edition. 22 February 2001
I guess I should forgive Mr. Walker for his ignorance. He lives and works in the high crime, totally unarmed Washington, D.C., where only criminals have guns. I live in one of the 33 shall issue concealed handgun license states in the United States of America, where criminals know that there may not be a 20 minute delay for a 911 call response. Darn it, we in Oregon and 32 other states have to continue to suffer the lower crime rate that coincidentally occurs (Ratnesar, Romesh. "SHOULD YOU CARRY A GUN? A New study argues for concealed weapons," VOL. 151 NO. 26 6 July 1998 TIME VOL. 151 NO. 26)
Fortunately for Canadians, to whom the original article was written, you are moving in the direction of Washington, D.C. You also have the bonus of spending hundreds of millions of dollars for gun registration and confiscation! Removing funding from useful Canadian law enforcement duties is sure to move you into contention for a top 10 position in the 2004 International Crime Victims Survey!
Thank goodness we in the US had (almost) gun free zones like Chicago, Massachusetts, New York City, and Washington, D.C. included in the last survey to keep us in seventh place!
I hope Mr. Walker doesn't read below the dotted line in this note...
Thanks for listening.
John McEnroe
www.mcenroe.cc
One of the most prominent criminologists in the world, Marvin Wolfgang, comments on Kleck's research concerning defensive gun use (see: How often are guns used in self-defense?)
"I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. If I were Mustapha Mond of Brave New World, I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police. I hate guns--ugly, nasty instruments designed to kill people.
... What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear-cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator...I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research.
Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence. The National Crime Victim Survey does not directly contravene this latest survey, nor do the Mauser and Hart studies.
... Nevertheless, the methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it.
... The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well." --- Marvin E. Wofgang, "A Tribute to a View I Have Opposed," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.)
http://www.sierratimes.com/02/06/14/edjm061402.htm
c 2002 SierraTimes.com (unless otherwise noted)
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878