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HELP!! Calling all Electricians!!

interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
edited August 2002 in General Discussion
So here is my problem. I order and receive a little chinese arc welder. Sez it's both a AC and a DC arc welder. Says it needs 230 vac single phase @ 60 hz. So I run 12 gauge 3 wire w/ ground out of my 200 amp service. Make up my 220 receptacle. I go to the welder to put on a 220 vac plug on the cord and what do I find? I find a cord with 3 wires, a black, a white and a green? What the hell is this? Any suggestions will be appreciated.
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Comments

  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    White, black, and green wires. Sure sounds like 110. What gauge are the wires?
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  • steveamy4steveamy4 Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd guess black is hot, white is hot, and green is ground.
    You don't find too many cords that have two colored wires and a ground. The only reason you'd need a neutral is ir the rating was single phase 120/240 volts.
    Steve
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    14 ga stranded wires, yeah I am stumped at the moment too!!
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  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm assuming that the owner's manual doesn't give instructions on exactly how to hook it up?

    I'm not a qualified electrician, but usually, black is hot, white is neutral (only carrying current when a device is switched on), and green is a ground wire.

    14 gauge seems awfully light for 220. Have you considered simply putting a 110 plug on it, plugging it into a 110 outlet and seeing what happens? I don't see as how you could hurt anything doing that, not like you would be plugging a 110 appliance into a 220 outlet!
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Yeah I am thinking the same at this point, we will give it a shot.
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  • steveamy4steveamy4 Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    I'm not a qualified electrician, but usually, black is hot, white is neutral (only carrying current when a device is switched on), and green is a ground wire.



    I am a qualified electrician. I hold licenses in Nebraska, South Dakota, and Sioux City, IA. Usually black is hot, white is neutral, and green is ground. Good luck finding a cord that has 2 colored wires and a ground without a white wire. You won't. If the nameplate on the welder says 230v single phase, the black is hot, the white is hot, and the green is ground. I've only been an electrician for 9 years, but this is how it has always been.
    Steve
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  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Listen to Steve! Also open the panels on the welder and you will find a plate somewhere telling you what it is.
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    So Steve, are you saying this welder runs off 110? (because of the 3 wire cord, white/black/green) Correct me if I am wrong but if your running 220 from your service should'nt you have a black and a red going to your double pole breaker in the service with your white and neutral over on the ground bar in the service also? If this is true would'nt your receptacle plug be looking for your 2 hots (red & black) and then your white(neutral)?
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  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interstate -

    If I were you, I would definitely take any advice you get from Steve, and disregard my posts. I was relying on my memory of working on stuff around the farm over the years, and could easily be way off base. Don't want to see you wreck anything or electrocute yourself or anything.

    Since Steve is an electrician, I would take advice from him before I would listen to me!

    As long as I have your "ear", Steve, doesn't 14 gauge wire seem too light for 220? How can it carry the amperage?
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Thanks Dong. Thanks Steve.



    Edited by - interstatepawnllc on 08/03/2002 23:46:40
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  • 4wheeler4wheeler Member Posts: 3,441
    edited November -1
    If welder is truly 220 volt then the black and white wire will be the hot wires and green is ground like Steve said,just make sure the welder is 220 volt.In my opinion you might should run 10 guage wire to welder because a welder runs at high amps.Check plate on welder and see how much full load amps welder pulls and that will dictate what guage wire you need.

    "It was like that when I got here".

    Edited by - 4wheeler on 08/03/2002 23:58:20
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Well what Steve and Dong said held true. My little * welder is up and buzzing. However I would like to have more feedback on the 12 ga v.s. 10 ga wire controversy, any more experts out there?
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  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    Put a thermocouple on the 12 ga. wire and run the welder. If you get more than a 2 or 3 degree increase in temp - you need 10 ga. (or bigger) No thermocouple? no problem. Put anothe 12 ga wire (unloaded nexr to the welder wire. Load the welder and compare temps using the inside of your wrist. If you feel ANY increase - go up a ga. or 2 !!

    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go to a Chinese Restaurant, order some Chow Mein, and get the Bus Boy to explain the instructions to you.

    Don't forget your Fortune Cookie.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • 4wheeler4wheeler Member Posts: 3,441
    edited November -1
    Did not mean to confuse you interstatepawnllc,normally 14 gauge wire is used for circuits up to 15 amps,example lighting circuits,12 guage is good for 20 amp circuits.10 guage is good for 30amp circuits.All appliances,welders,motors etc. should have a label showing full load amps(FLA) of that device and then you size the wire according to that info.If wire is not sized properly then wireing will get hot causing voltage drop,less amp carrying capacity and and if it is greatly undersized could cause a fire if wire is close to a flameable source.National electrical code book has the normal amp carrying capacity of different guage wire but my book is at work,if I had it I could give you this info.I bet now you are really confused.

    "It was like that when I got here".
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  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    14 guage wire on the plug is fine because as voltage increases amperage decreases and vice versa.you can put 50,000 volts through 14 ga wire so long as the amps dont get too hot.the high amps in a welder are generated in the internal transformer that will take the high volt low amp power from your home and turn it into high amp low volt power,so there isnt gonna be 60 amps running through the plug.white is not always common.on a 220 setup white is hot black is hot and green is ground.or red and black depending on what wire yuou buy

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail:WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Well, as the Gods may have it everything turned out just peachy. I am using a 20 amp breaker and running my 220 circuit on 12 ga wire. I also got a refresher course in apprenticing electricity 101. I am alive to tell the tale and smarter for knowing when to ask for help. Thanks again to all who contributed
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  • bartobarto Member Posts: 4,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    after having lived in trailers for a few years when i built my house i wired it entirely w/10 ga. wire.
    i personally would'nt wire a lamp w/14 ga.
    barto

    the hard stuff we do right away - the impossible takes a little longer
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