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Here Is Another One...About School Car Searches

nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
There was an incident in a nearby school. Private security outfit, contracted to the school district, had their dog on campus. Dog looks for dope and guns.

Dog was on parking lot. Dog alerted on a car. Principal gets kid out of class. Tells kid to open the car. Kid, being stupid, opened the car. In trunk was a .22 rifle he forgot and left in there over the weekend. It was not loaded.

Cops were called. Cops told principal it is not a violation. Parking lot is no longer part of the "premises" of a school.

The kid was EXPELLED from school. Forever. Had to find a new school. Kid was a senior honors student involved in sports and was up for scholarships. All that is down the tubes.

Another car was found to have some shotgun shells in it, and that kid was suspended.

I had a chat with my kids. It went like this:

If the principal ever calls you to the parking lot and orders you to open your car, you do a quick mental inventory of the car. If you are not CERTAIN there is nothing you forgot and left in there to get you into trouble, you REFUSE. Actually, just REFUSE anyway. Throw the key down a storm drain if you have to, and then CALL ME.

I will come there and get the car, or I will send a tow truck to pick it up, and no one will search it. IT IS MY CAR ANYWAY! No telling what I might have forgotten and left in there.

Refusal to allow a search, according to the student handbook, will result in a suspension of parking priveleges. That is acceptable, while expulsion is not.

What would you tell your kids?



SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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Comments

  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd tell my kids what I always tell my wife....."Never consent to any search no matter what." I do not think there are uniform laws on searching a car on school property and I don't think the Supreme
    court has given us any guidance on that. It seems the 4th amendment
    routinely suspended on any school property.
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  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like pretty good advice Nunn....back when I was a kid on the school bus, the driver carried a side-by-side 12gauge behind his seat during Pheasant season...one evening we saw some birds on the way home, only 5-6 of us on the bus...he stopped the bus, let one of the kids take the shotgun out and we ended up with a pheasant to take home for supper. Times have changed, he would have been strung up on the National evening news had it happened today....Same driver would let us kids off at a country general store to buy ammo so we could hunt after school....
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  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would say you gave some pretty good advice.

    Rugster
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tell him to kick the crap out of the security guard and kill his dog, then call me.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here in Texas, as far as I have an understanding of the Law, the only person who could legally search that vehicle without permission, would be a Texas Peace Officer with either probable cause, or a search warrant. And a 16 year old kid is not old enough to give anyone permission to search their parents vehicle, he has to be over 18. And that would be a law suit and an * kicking if that ever happend to my kid. I don't respect private security at all, especially when they over step their legal means. I having worked private security myself, understand how poorly selected and trained private security people are. (notice I didn't say officers, cause they aren't) The place I worked for, soon after I quit, had to let over half of their people go, because they got audited by the state, and found out half their employees had previous felony records, no kidding.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    Gun Free Zone: Often misunderstood. What it means is that if you commit an offense in that zone, and if you happen to be armed at the time, it enhances the offense. The law DOES NOT APPLY to Sections 46.02, Unlawfully Carrying Weapons, and 46.03, Places Weapons Prohibited. If you shot at someone in a gun free zone, the offense would be enhanced by one degree. Just carrying the gun, no.

    46.03 says you can't carry guns at school and other places. At one time, it mean the ENTIRE grounds.

    Then we got the concealed handgun law, and the definitions in that law conflicted with 46.03. 46.03 was amended so that the definition of "premises" agreed with the CHL law, and does not include driveways, parking lots, walkways, and common areas. It only includes the actual buildings and stadiums. They had to amend it. Otherwise, Dad dropping Junior off at school, legally carrying his gun, would be illegal when he pulled into the driveway. Now, he can, but if he goes in for a conference, he has to leave the gun in the car.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    Laws at schools are getting ridiclous. Whatever happened to common sense?


    ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
    Will270win@nraonline.com
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    will270, commonsense really depends on what your definition of "is" is - that's what happened to it! And this has been building since circa 1932. Marx was right - our society will collapse from within . . . from the acts of the idiot liberals.
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    In Kalif. the Child Protective Services is a loose cannon, with no checks and balances. A friend of mine has a daughter in a local high school and the whole family shoots a lot of trap. Counselor at school hears of this and calls daughter into her office. Questions daughter about guns in the house, and contacts CPS. CPS responds to the home and fortunely my friend is home, and refuses to admit CPS worker. CPS says they will be back with a deputy sheriff, and friend calls his attorney, and me, and local congressman. The short version is that CPS drops its investigation, does not get into my friends house, and the interview that CPS wanted is conducted at attorney's office with tape recorders, and CPS having to reword almost every question (they have so many versions of "do you still beat your wife" type questions.

    I sat down my two boys and told them if anyone asks them any questions concering guns, their answer (and I made them repeat it backto me several times) "This interview and questioning is over, now.
    You may not ask any questions, and I will not answer any questions. I want to speak to my parents right now, and I demand to have my attorney present now. Do you understand that I have asked for an attorney?"
    As for car searches: Do not, under any circumstances, allow anyone to search your car. You have no idea who may have dropped somthing under a seat. And do not give the keys to anyone.

    I personally violate the guns at school at least twice a week, because I drop off and pick up my youngest son while enroute to and back from the range.
    Zero tolerance and common sense have to have some common ground.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    LTS: That is correct. Violation of school rules, but not of the law.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I understand that this was a private security outfit and was not a case of a search incident to a traffic stop. However, as I understand it, he who holds the keys to the vehicle exercises control over that vehicle and has the power to authorize a search regardless of whose name it is registered to or how old that person is. Nunn--correct me if I'm wrong. I just know how things work on military installations.
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    idsman75: You are correct.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    In Kalif. the Child Protective Services is a loose cannon, with no checks and balances. A friend of mine has a daughter in a local high school and the whole family shoots a lot of trap. Counselor at school hears of this and calls daughter into her office. Questions daughter about guns in the house, and contacts CPS. CPS responds to the home and fortunely my friend is home, and refuses to admit CPS worker. CPS says they will be back with a deputy sheriff, and friend calls his attorney, and me, and local congressman. The short version is that CPS drops its investigation, does not get into my friends house, and the interview that CPS wanted is conducted at attorney's office with tape recorders, and CPS having to reword almost every question (they have so many versions of "do you still beat your wife" type questions.

    I sat down my two boys and told them if anyone asks them any questions concering guns, their answer (and I made them repeat it backto me several times) "This interview and questioning is over, now.
    You may not ask any questions, and I will not answer any questions. I want to speak to my parents right now, and I demand to have my attorney present now. Do you understand that I have asked for an attorney?"
    As for car searches: Do not, under any circumstances, allow anyone to search your car. You have no idea who may have dropped somthing under a seat. And do not give the keys to anyone.

    I personally violate the guns at school at least twice a week, because I drop off and pick up my youngest son while enroute to and back from the range.
    Zero tolerance and common sense have to have some common ground.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."


    Around these hear parts, we hang them kinda school counslers... And no one here nows how to read, so we just carry our guns everywhere...

    Whats your excuse...

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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