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ATF not enforcing gun laws?

leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
edited July 2002 in General Discussion
Does anyone know anyone who's been arrested for a firearms violation? I know there are quite a few laws, but I really don't think civilian firearms laws are actively enforced, just passively. Like when someone gets in trouble and gets caught doing something, then they find the firearms, and its one more charge to add to the list. But I know this 8 US made parts law for all imported guns. I haven't heard of a single individual getting in trouble for assembling and illegal parts kit.

Just curious. Any comments?

If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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Comments

  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, just a thought, your in law enforsement, would you arrest someone for a tech. volation? just a question no slam on your integrity. respt submitted dads-freehold

    rodney colson
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  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
    edited November -1
    THE ATF is all over people here in Florida,

    They Target the guy,s that sell NEW IN BOX guns without doing the paper. However I have sold and traded, and bought guns that were used, in many a private deal, with no problems.

    We have one dumb a-- here that went to a gun show, set up, and announced "New in the box guns here, no paper work involved" The ATF was on him like Flies to Honey. However they didnt mess with any of the used gun deals, between private individuals. Strange Law

    "A wise man is a man that realizes just how little he knows"
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My guess is that if the infraction is serious enough, you will see them act. Like for instance, if you modify a semi-auto into full auto, that person will be arrested. Now, there are many smaller or less important things which can happen that may be deemed as not cost effective for the ATF, like prosecuting a case about a folding stock on an SKS. They would have to go round and round to find the paper trail which would prove that the gun wasn't that way before 1994, and that is if they could even locate a sales receipt or a sales clerck who remembered selling it to someone specific, at some time in the past, but after 1994. They may spend the effort and money if they are trying to get a conviction on someone who has commited multiple firearms violations, just to add to the charge count. But hey,..I'm not an ATF agent so I can't say for sure. I just try to do everything legal, that way I have no worries. Some of the laws are so ambiguous, that it takes one hell of a lot of knowledge and re-reading just to get a halfway understanding of them. Yeah, it stinks to have to pay $500 more for a pre-ban gun, just so you can have a folding or collapsible stock or flash suppressor, but if it keeps you out of the clink, it's worth it. Make your choices, but know the consequences, firearms violations of a serious nature gets you a free stay in one of our finer, federal bed and breakfasts.

    A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    They most certainly are still enforcing them...the ATF just hasn't gotten around to you yet.

    I've been having serious trouble with them as of late.

    Look for me to be in the news as a deranged, child molesting, drug lab having, arsenal toting, Satan worshipping, Jesus freak-being, right wing, militia extremist who was gunned down when BATF agents tried to serve a warrant (Read: Kill him and his family) and he actually had the audacity to shoot back!

    More to come. Those of you who know me already have the scoop. The rest of you will have to watch it on CNN.

    Stand And Be Counted
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  • metalcuttermetalcutter Member Posts: 34 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I met an ATF agent recently and asked him about his job. He said he mostly gets involved on drug arrests where a gun was found in the possesion of the offender. He stays pretty busy with crimes that become felony offenses because of the use of a firearm. He made it sound like his department is understaffed. He'd never personally been involved in an arrest of anyone for violating a gun control law (such as illegal possesion of a machine gun, etc.)
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  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Can't you see it all now? Some Dude modifies a semi-auto into a full auto. First thing he does is haul it down to his local favorite firing range.........to test it and to brag a little....maybe! Now you don't suppose anybody could tell the difference do you between his "triple tap" and his "ten tap?"

    It would seem to me that an illegal gun would not be much good to have any fun with because its going to be rather hard to find a "safe" place to shoot it........and any companions to brag to.

    Of course, if you're a hermit of some kind and don't mind being 40 miles from nowhere out in the desert by yourself shooting rattlesnakes and horned toads........Hhmmmmmmmm, what a blast! Anybody know where I can get a "Full Auto Lower" for my Jennings 9mm?

    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Its just that I think that people have a little common sense, accept for politicians. So when they throw in this new bill saying you have to have this and that, and get all technical, and the ATF guys are sitting over there laughing saying "You want me to enforce what?, Yea Sure, I'll do that.." Its just that laws are easy to enforce when they are kept simple and to the point, we let the lawyers duke it out over the technical stuff. But when you put an officer in the line of technicality, your not going to see them actively pursuing more paperwork. Thats just common sense. I'm sure that the ATF might do an inspection of a companies paperwork who manufactures guns from imported parts kits, but I know for a fact that they aren't going to try to enforce it on Joe Citzen, unless Joe Citzen redflags himself to the point that the officer doesn't have enough teflon in his briefcase to skate the report.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "...but I know for a fact that they aren't going to try to enforce it on Joe Citzen, unless Joe Citzen redflags himself to the point that the officer doesn't have enough teflon in his briefcase to skate the report."

    You're dead wrong, Lee. You're making the BATF out to be our friends when they are far from it.

    Some day you'll know what I'm talking about.

    Stand And Be Counted
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    They are just an organization of humans, just like you or I. They are just average joes, working for a living, at a job that pays more than minimum wage and has good benifits. I'm sure that you'll find that many of them are actually pro-gun themselves. At one time, many people hated the police, now since 911 they are looked upon as hero's. Peoples perseptions are like a swinging pendilum, but they always forget, that the government they are judging, is them...

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "They are just average joes, working for a living, at a job that pays more than minimum wage and has good benifits."

    I'm interested that nobody else is responding to this thread. I know I'm not the only person out there with an opinion on this. Jusst odd 'cause I think it's a pretty interesting thread.

    Anyhow, you're right:

    Baby killing does have it's perks. If you knew half of what I knew about the BATF, you'd have nightmares for life.

    I guess I've got it coming when they come for me, eh? Couldn't be that they're a corrupt bunch of Gestapo...could it?

    Stand And Be Counted
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You know what gets me is every time they talk about a shooting on TV or Newspaper they never say where the gun came from.

    Was it Stolen? Was it bought on the Streets? Was it bought Legally?

    The more Firearm laws that are made against Honest Citizens, the more firearm smuggling from countries like Argentina and other Third World Countries and they will all be sold on the Streets.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • BarrelbobBarrelbob Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are many arrests for tech violations, don't kid yourself.
    The federal joints are jam packed with guys who never thought that what they were doing was that serious.

    Those idiots that are altering semi's to full auto and then selling them to drug dealers or gang members are not gun advocates. They are scum.

    If you play with *...you get it on ya!

    BOB SANTANGELO
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  • tccoxtccox Member Posts: 7,379 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK,I'll add my tale. I brought and AK back from Nam in '69. Many years later, an ex friend turned me in to ATF. I was questioned and the penalties were fully explained to me. I was still in the military and decided the wise thing to do was surrender it. They gave me a receipt for turning it in and that was it. Had they done a search warrant thing and found it, I imagine there would have been a much different outcome. Yeah, I sure hated to give it up and I lived so far back in the sticks in LA that I would occasionally put a clip through it. I wonder what it would be worth today?? Tom

    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who dont.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm in Indiana, which is an easier place to be, but I've stayed within the law and even when I got out of my little kitchen-table FFL I followed all their rules and sent in my meager "bound book" like they asked. So I have no bones to pick with them at the moment. I do think their job is to make gun owners' lives miserable at times, but if you are having serious trouble with them I suggest you give the NRA a call and ask for legal help. They have been known to get interested in cases of merit. Of course, if you were sawing off shotgun barrels like Randy Weaver, you're better off getting a lawyer like he should have done and go after them for entrapment, which is apparently how his problems all started. I do not recommend holing up in your house when the BATF boys in black show up, unless your lawyer is on your doorstep to do the talking for you. The BATF is dangerous because they like to show up SWAT style, but they're buffoons because they're frequently wrong vs. the Second Amendment and state law, and prone to extreme overreaction to technicalities. So the easiest way to beat them is in a courtroom, not with a seige.

    By the way, I would never suggest that the BATF are our friends, and as far as I am concerned, I agree with those who have seriously suggested it is time to disband the BATF altogether. HOWEVER, reality is reality and we have them to deal with. They are sanctioned by the U.S. government to enforce certain laws, and they therefore "represent" law and order, like it or not. Mess with them at your peril. If you know you're right and they're wrong, the easiest path by far is to go along quietly smiling when they come for you, and then nail their * to the wall in court with your documentation. If you need legal financial help, it's out there. You don't want them camped on your doorstep, because they don't respond to logic -- you can't argue with a Neanderthal -- they're not there to try the case, they're there to take you downtown and gather your evidence and exhibits for the case in court. If you win, they have to give it all back.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - offeror on 07/16/2002 12:53:30
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  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    Full auto weapon + no class 3 license = 10 years in federal prison and a $10,000 dollar fine. About the same deal for poaching on federal land.
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  • MobuckMobuck Member Posts: 14,167 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It takes adifferent kind of person to be a postal inspector or atf agent. Those are two positions that not only allow but encourage entrapment in getting a case.

    Mobuck
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    It takes adifferent kind of person to be a postal inspector or atf agent. Those are two positions that not only allow but encourage entrapment in getting a case.

    Mobuck


    I have a friend who is a postal inspector, he's an awesome guy. Nothing like what your thinking. He's a real cool guy, rides a Harley with the local police biker club. Just doing a job like everyone else.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    OK,I'll add my tale. I brought and AK back from Nam in '69. Many years later, an ex friend turned me in to ATF. I was questioned and the penalties were fully explained to me. I was still in the military and decided the wise thing to do was surrender it. They gave me a receipt for turning it in and that was it. Had they done a search warrant thing and found it, I imagine there would have been a much different outcome. Yeah, I sure hated to give it up and I lived so far back in the sticks in LA that I would occasionally put a clip through it. I wonder what it would be worth today?? Tom

    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who dont.


    If that was my girlfriend, they'd have to cut open an aligator to find her remains.... hehehe

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
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