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.40 vs 9mm vs.45

seductiveoneseductiveone Member Posts: 159
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
Shoottilltheneigborscallthesheriff an I had a conversation about what the best all around handgun caliber is. We both decided a .40 was in our opinion. wondering what ya'll prefer. Or if an other caliber is preferred. STTNCTS has a freind down dar in da swamp that likes 9's and will not admit he likes .40's to the long named freak.



"Respect my authority"

Comments

  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    No! Not again! Just kidding.... kinda...

    I believe that a person can be equally well armed with any of the three calibers. I hear that the stopping power statistics from actual shootings are beginning to favor certain of the .40 calibers, but you know what they say about statistics. Still, I like the fact that the stats are in my favor, since I have gone to a .40 Glock. (I also own a couple of good .45ACP handguns).

    Frankly, for myself I'm sticking with the bigger bores in the foreseeable future, at least until I decide to go after an NFA gun. Then I *MIGHT* shoot 9mm. In the meantime, I now prefer bigger bores in general, and .40 is my small-side limit, or 10mm or .44 in the Magnum range. My infatuation with the 9 is pretty much over.

    The only exception might be the chance to own a significantly interesting gun which was only offered to me in a given caliber. My Uzi carbine, when I owned one (brand new IMI Type A), was a 9. I sold it unfired. If I ever own another, I believe I will hold out for a .45.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    (1) .45 ACP
    (2) .40 S&W
    (3) 9mm

    In my opinion.

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • jastrjastr Member Posts: 463 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think the .45 is the best of the three.... not that long ago we had a thread about stopping power stats. The .40 in federal hydrashock was rated #1 in the test .. calibers included the .45 in various manufacturers, the .357mag, and .357sig, one 9mm round that was a fed hydrashock +p+ and a few others. I personally like the .357 sig round.

    lets all be responsible! shoot a criminal! Remember 0% of firearms pull there own trigger!
  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i have read that the .40 cor-bon jhp has the highest 1 shot stop rating in any handgun ammo.i have a .40 and a 9mm i carry hydrashocks in the 9mm and feel well protected.remember that a compact will not give you the same ballistics as a full size even shooting the exact sdame ammo.the shorter the barrell the less velocity,so if you are gonna carry a compact bigger is better,unless were talking frangible ammo but thats a different thread all together

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    Best for what??

    Best handgun hunting caliber - .41 Remington Mag.

    Best combat caliber - .45 ACP

    Best self defense caliber - one you can hit with!!!

    Best big banging, hard recoiling, lots 'o knockdown/MV/ME, auto-loading pistol caliber (excepting Desert Eagle's) - 10 MM

    Best precision target caliber - .22 short

    Best LOOOOONG range target caliber - .41 Remington Mag.

    Best hyped-up caliber that has no real value and is an attempt to equal the .45ACP - .40 S&W

    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    Best crowd control caliber - .36



    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
  • seductiveoneseductiveone Member Posts: 159
    edited November -1
    That sure is a perdy one!
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Probably the best overall Self Defense chambering is the 10MM but personally I think the .40S+W meets all criteria.The .40S+W is a hard hitting,low recoil,high expansion round which is better suited for the smaller 3" barreled (or less) self defense carry arms.I double and triple tap my mini Glock 27 fast and with less dispersion than with my .45.The 9MM can not be dismissed though as the higher performance loads they are making in 9mm are ideal for CCW.As for the .45,well aside from carrying a hand cannon it is tough to beat as far as knockdown power in a smaller package.I'm afraid you've asked the AR vs AK question of chamberings everyone will swear by their favorite and everyone will be able to find some author with stats that agree with their choice.
    The first rule in a gunfight is HAVE GUN and personally if you can put two center of mass and one in the head they will all perform well ,but then again,WHAT DO I KNOW? JM $.02 Josey

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • MPinkstonMPinkston Member Posts: 799 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The best is not in the list. When comparing the 40SW to the 9mm you almost have to include the 357sig in your analysis. Its the best of both.

    aguncollector@yahoo.com
  • shoottilltheneighborscallthesherrifshoottilltheneighborscallthesherrif Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Isn't a .40S&W 10.16 in mm? How could this be a relabeled .38? My .40 kicks way more * than my .38, so much that i gave my .38 to the mother-in-law. MY opinion is that a 9mm is underpowered and i'm too small to eficiently fire a .45. Although, i would appreciated getting shot w/any caliber!
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Exactly shoot,some people get so fixed in their ways that nothing else is considered.I shoot .38 as well and it is nothing like the .40S+W.If you want to compare it to anything it is closer to the 10MM.Mr. Lik must be buying those "Special" super secret mini Glocks that come in .38

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - Josey1 on 05/26/2002 11:11:45
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just as I said in my earlier post,people with their own opinions regarding this topic can find any number of authors who will have some sort of statistic that supports their claim.The 9MMvs.40SWvs.45 is as old an arguement as the .40SW load is itself with supporters to the death of each round.I don't look at data and tolerances and outside information to tell me what a load/caliber is or isn't.I like the .40SW and if moved to do so I could quote several "experts" that would say the .40SW is the best thing since sliced bread and they would back it up using all kinds of graphs and charts.But I don't have to because I'm sure you know this is true about "Experts",I like the .40SW because it works for me,it hits harder than the .38 and 9MM but doesn't have the heavy recoil of the .45(especially in such a small package as a Glock mini),add in the fact that I can carry 10 rounds as opposed to 7 and my choice is made.Not because it is touted by anyone,not because there is any "Expert statistics" on ballistics but because I shot it,I liked it and it WORKS FOR ME,FYI

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • seductiveoneseductiveone Member Posts: 159
    edited November -1
    I have never shot a .38, but I have shot a 9mm as well of a veriety of other calibers.

    When I got my first handgun, I got the same one my roomate had at the time but I got a .40 instead of the 9mm he had so we would'nt mix our ammo up. I have to say from 6 years of shooting the both of them, my .40 is more poweful, penatrates more, and has a nicer snap to it. My roomate acually likes my .40 better and wished he got that instead. They are the exact same gum but the caliber is different. We have shot the same kind of ammo (correct caliber of course) as well as different. In my opinion the .40 is a better selection, for me.

    Your are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that. That is why I was "wondering what ya'll prefer" for an all around caliber.
    I prefer a .40 and you, a .38. From what I get from you, they are pretty much the same caliber. I learned something new from you!

    I always appreciate input. thanx



    "Respect my authority"
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .38--.357dia
    .40--.400dia
    ?????????????
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When we did firearms trianing at the Sheriff's acadamy, we watched a video on ballistics and it showed that larger heavier bullets penetrated more that faster littler bullets. The .45acp 230gr FMJ penetrated more ballistic jello than the .357sig... And it left a bigger hole.

    In my opinion...

    1).45acp
    2)40s&w
    3).357sig
    4)9mm

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Again,
    .38--.357dia
    .40--.400dia
    Explain please
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Save your fingers 7mm. He doesn't get it, nor does he understand. I'll bet he's confusing 9mm (.38 Cal.) with .40S&W.

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, he seemed so sure of himself and I thought maybe he could explain to me and others who feel like I do(confused) how after all this time did we ever confuse a .357 with a .400.
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Easy, too much talk and not enough listening! As the old man would say,"boys, more ear, less lip".

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is obvious that he is a .45 purist and nothing else matters.I wonder if how he carries that big 1911 when it's a 100 degrees in the shade?Either he doesn't get out much or he is that guy you always see wearing jean shorts a checkered collared shirt with a canvas concealment vest and knee high black dress socks under boatshoes in weather you can fry an egg on the pavement. PS look at my first post in this thread,I described him to a tee before he even spoke,some people are just too stubborn to get it or they think it is their way or no way.

    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

    Edited by - Josey1 on 05/26/2002 21:38:26
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Call me stuborn, I want to know how he comes up with a .40 being a .38.
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000
    edited November -1
    Must be some of that "new math".

    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    .40 - .38 = .02
    Close enough, they are the same thing!!
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just in case someone wants to see facts instead of opinions, try this link:
    http://www.powernet.net/~eich1/sp.html

    According to the data in the table, the extra stopping power of a .45 ACP versus .40 S&W with the right ammo is negligible. 9mm with the right JHP ammo is not quite as good but still within the range of feasible use. .357 magnum is up there with .40 S&W. .357 sig is down there with 9mm. These results are based on actual incidents. Naturally, there is quite a bit of statistical variation because of shot placement, etc. I wouldn't count a difference of less than 3% as significant.

    I like 9mm myself for general shooting and home defense as a compromise of several factors (cost of ammo, recoil, enough stopping power if needed), but if I were allowed by my state to carry a concealed weapon for defense (boy do I have to bite my tongue while I type that), I would go to .40 S&W based on this data. I read somewhere that .38 spl is the lowest caliber to consider for self-defense, but based on the table, I wouldn't go lower than 9mm. Picking the right ammo appears to be as critical as picking the right caliber.

    Rifles (above .22) and shotguns (slugs) do better than any of these handgun rounds, by the way.
  • 223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My .416 Rigby derringer has some pretty good power numbers,
    and when I touch one off it gives me an 8 foot head start
    on my retreat from the situation.
  • shoottilltheneighborscallthesherrifshoottilltheneighborscallthesherrif Member Posts: 85 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think JOSEY1 is totaly correct. Like many have said, carry what you want, it'a a few well placed rounds that make a difference. If i had 75 ft to spare i would protect my home w/my .22. Some people are just bent on .45's and nothing else is good. Just as some people are ready to fight because you don't like fords or chevy's. Grow up! I shoot a .40 because FOR ME it was the best choice and i like it.I mentioned earlier that i think 9's are not enough and .45's are too much for me. OH, and it is not in my head, my .40 is a lot better than my .38.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Personally I don't find that much difference in firing the .45 or the .40. Now my lightweight Charter Arms .44 Special -- that hurts the web of my hand a bit, but the gun is so light and the grips are so thin.

    In any case, it's not only about bullet diameter, as you know. If we're talking modern loads, which I assume we are, even the older cops will tell you the .38 Special wasn't great and that some loads were a lot better stoppers than others. Seems to me the search for a better round came out of the Miami FBI business, where the 9mm and .38 were for the most part not as effective as they'd expected.

    Assuming some technological progress has been made, and the stats seem to reflect that it has, I like the modern .40 and the .45. I have yet to try out a 10mm but I expect to enjoy that too. I usually pick fairly hot loads for defensive carry, since I do shoot compacts, and I pick loads with lower muzzle flash when I can (Nyclad used to have a flash the size of a basketball out of my Glock -- I wondered whether it was all the powder's doing or if the coating on the bullet might have been adding to that). I like a heavier bullet generally, unless they can prove to me that a lighter bullet in the same caliber has far better stopping characteristics. I will load 200-230 gr. loads in my .45 and 180s in my .40, except when I buy the Corbon and then I trade extra velocity for weight.

    I find these parameters work for me pretty well. I'd just as soon leave the .38 Special for the ladies and the 9 for those who still find it to their liking. I think the jury's still out on the .357Sig but I haven't heard anything here to make me like it better yet. If I ever do, I may get a barrel for my G27 and try some.

    I enjoyed a website recently that showed the difference in interior slide dimensions between the Glock 20 and the Glock 21. The 20 is heavier whereas the 21, being for a lesser-powered round, is relieved somewhat on the inside. I believe if I decide to shoot the 10mm I'm going to go after a G20 or the compact version.

    As for recoil reduction, I've been reading about H&K's dual spring system on their USP guide rod and I'd suggest anyone intimidated by the .45ACP give one of those a try. Sounds like it helps some.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well I like the .45ACP. Could be my military background but everytime I've fired a 9mm it seemed to lack the punch of a 45. I acknowledge that the double stack magazines may give you an edge in a prolonged shootout. I tried shooting the model 92 and I found it fairly uncomfortable in the hand. I have a couple of Colt 1911's and they just seem to fit my hand a little better. I'm really interested in looking into a Colt Commander from the 50's and 60's in .38 Super...just because so many people have said although it's a powerful cartridge it's inaccurate as hell. I'd like to see if I could make one fairly accurate. Beach
  • stanmanstanman Member Posts: 3,052
    edited November -1
    .223 Believer,
    You've settled the argument. (Thank God!!)
    Now where do I send my credit card #?
    I've got to have one, oh man I can hardly wait!
    I'll be able to not only take out the bad guy, but the entire block will be laying in rubble.
    And I'm sure it's easier to conceal than the BFR 45/70 that I have on order.
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