Court says judge erred in gun case

Josey1

Court says judge erred in gun caseAPPEAL: Mental illness can't be a factor in revoking permit. By Mary Pemberton The Associated Press (Published: November 9, 2001) A judge was wrong to revoke a man's permit to carry a concealed handgun because she believed he was mentally ill, the Alaska Court of Appeals has ruled.The appeals court ruled Wednesday that District Court Judge Natalie Finn erred in taking away Timothy Wagner's permit until his mental illness was "either cured or improved."In its decision, the court cited changes to state law in 1998 to eliminate mental illness as a factor that the Department of Public Safety can consider when processing concealed handgun permits.The court found that in defending Finn's action, the state attorney general's office was relying on an earlier version of the law that allowed the Department of Public Safety to reject an application or deny a renewal if the agency believed the applicant was mentally ill."However, this provision of the Administrative Code was amended in 1998 to eliminate mental illness as a factor that the department can consider when processing concealed handgun permits," the court wrote in its decision.Wagner was convicted of failing to disclose to a police officer on Oct. 7, 1998, that he was carrying a concealed handgun until the officer asked him if he was armed.The court supported Finn's decision to place Wagner on three years' probation. As a condition, the judge ordered him not to have any weapons.According to court documents, the problem arose after Wagner entered the Alaska Mining and Diving store in Anchorage. Wagner told an employee that he needed to soak out the chemicals that had been injected into him or else they would kill him. Another employee overheard the conversation and called police.When police arrived, Wagner placed a briefcase he was carrying in a basket on his bicycle. Police ran a background check and found that Wagner had a permit to carry a concealed handgun. The officer then asked Wagner whether he had a gun, and he pointed to the briefcase.The Department of Public Safety revoked Wagner's permit after hearing of Finn's decision, said Del Smith, the department's deputy commissioner. Wagner appealed the decision and the agency denied the appeal.Wagner's lawyer did not immediately return a call seeking comment on Thursday. http://www.adn.com/alaska/story/735066p-782980c.html

mlincoln

Well, wait a minute. If the fellow is really nuts, off his rocker, then I think he should NOT be allowed to get a concealed permit. Believe it or not, I think some, a few, gun control laws are a good idea and this might be one of them. Insane people should not be allowed to carry firearms.At the same time, if the fellow suffered from a mental illness in the past and has recovered, or if he is currently being treated for a chronic condition and presents no threat to himself or others, then fine. He should get the permit. Keep in mind that if you argue against all gun control laws, you'll lose the moderate middle of the populus and then lose everything. I've said it before and I'll say it again: some common sense gun laws (not allowing felons to purchase guns, not allowing the insane to carry guns, etc.) make perfectly good sense and should be supported by responsible gun owners. That being said, many of the current gun laws on the books should be repealed because they serve no good purpose except to take away the rights of law-abiding people.

7mm_ultra_mag_is_king

I've been told I'm mentally ill by a few people simply because I went thru a rebellious stage during my teens. I listen to '80s hard rock. drink beer and I have severall tattoos. I look like a punk. But to some I'm unfit to own guns. I've never been in jail, never been in trouble except for traffic violations. I'm also a gun lover. I was in a store in clearfield PA called Grices gun shop with a freind one day while he was looking at a new .223 and I was browsing the handgun section. I found a SW 629 .44 mag with a tasco pro point on it. I started to drool and asked the salesman (when he finally came over) if I could see it. He grudgingly got it out of the case and haded it to me, as I looked at it I could feel my Mastercard trying to get out of my wallet. This was before insta check came into law and in PA if you have a protection permit you had NO waiting period for handguns. I told the salesman I would take the gun and he said "where are you from?" I told him I lived about an hour and a half away, He says " well ther is a five day wait for this which could be seven days due to the weekend, IF YOU are approved(and he stressed approved) you would have to drive all the way back to get it" I daid no,, I would take it home today, he says " law says you cant unless you have a protection permit" he was talking loud as to get eveybody's attention . I stood there getting pissed and finally pulled out my wallet, layed down my credit card on his counter and then pulled out my permit and said you mean one of these? HE said ohh yes one of those, I'll get the paperowrk, he was smiling now and had a different attitude, I said no , I don't want your gun,,keep it and walked away. I also have a freind who when he was a teen did something stupid, he and some buddies went into a house looking for beer and got caught. HE got a fellony on his record now. He is not a bad person and that happened over 20 years ago. He would like to own a handgun and a shot gun for the house but is not allowed because of a stupid mistake long ago. I trust him with a gun more than I do some of these law abiding gun nuts.

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when all else fails........................

7mm_ultra_mag_is_king

I've been told I'm mentally ill by a few people simply because I went thru a rebellious stage during my teens. I listen to '80s hard rock. drink beer and I have severall tattoos. I look like a punk. But to some I'm unfit to own guns. I've never been in jail, never been in trouble except for traffic violations. I'm also a gun lover. I was in a store in clearfield PA called Grices gun shop with a freind one day while he was looking at a new .223 and I was browsing the handgun section. I found a SW 629 .44 mag with a tasco pro point on it. I started to drool and asked the salesman (when he finally came over) if I could see it. He grudgingly got it out of the case and haded it to me, as I looked at it I could feel my Mastercard trying to get out of my wallet. This was before insta check came into law and in PA if you have a protection permit you had NO waiting period for handguns. I told the salesman I would take the gun and he said "where are you from?" I told him I lived about an hour and a half away, He says " well ther is a five day wait for this which could be seven days due to the weekend, IF YOU are approved(and he stressed approved) you would have to drive all the way back to get it" I daid no,, I would take it home today, he says " law says you cant unless you have a protection permit" he was talking loud as to get eveybody's attention . I stood there getting pissed and finally pulled out my wallet, layed down my credit card on his counter and then pulled out my permit and said you mean one of these? HE said ohh yes one of those, I'll get the paperowrk, he was smiling now and had a different attitude, I said no , I don't want your gun,,keep it and walked away. I also have a freind who when he was a teen did something stupid, he and some buddies went into a house looking for beer and got caught. HE got a fellony on his record now. He is not a bad person and that happened over 20 years ago. He would like to own a handgun and a shot gun for the house but is not allowed because of a stupid mistake long ago. I trust him with a gun more than I do some of these law abiding gun nuts. The reason I typed all of this is to say not everybody is what you think they are. Just because we dont listen to country music or go to the same clubs as you, or because we did stupid stuff as a youth does not mean we are mentally unfit or too crazy to own guns. If you saw me walk out of a gun store with a gun you would think I robbed it. People just love to judge others without knowing them. I own over 100 guns,all kinds and I would NEVER do something stupid with them. I love guns and I love heavy metal music. Am I mentally defective? would you sell me a gun?

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when all else fails........................

Iconoclast

Wow, this is exactly the sort of whacko that *should* be denied access to weapons. Sure would like to know the history on that legislation . . . maybe false accusations of mental instability were being used by PC LEOs?

Lowrider

If you're nuts...NO GUNS FOR YOU.

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Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.

badboybob

Shees folks it's the crazies who are doing a lot of the nut things like killing people in the post office where they used to work, murdering people in McDonalds, sniping at innocent people, etc,etc. Now the idiot judges wanna give more nutcases the right to buy guns?

7mm_ultra_mag_is_king

Hey Iconoclast Who you refering to?

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when all else fails........................

turbo

Say Bad Boy Bob,Didn't you know one of the qualifications for working at the Post Office, is you've got to be NUTZ, thats why they settle all their anxieties by going home and getting their guns.As for this guy, in Josey's post, the story doesn't reflect whether he has been found mentally incapacitated, I have to say if the guy is a nutso, he shouln't have the right to own any weapons, on the other hand, if he has not been deemed to be mentally unstable by a doctor or some other entity, he has every right to own and carry (it's his right). A person can't be judged to be crazy just cause he talks to ELVIS, according to the story "another employee overheard what he said and called police". Granted he sounds like hes flying high, but just cause of heresay it isn't enough evidense.Sooo, it looks like the law prevails on this one, even thou it sounds like a bad law. Sometimes I wonder about the law makers, they seem to be crazzier than the general public.Anyway, I'm sure glad he lives in Alaska...