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I am not a communist ok! it just hapens this stuff is quite True!

Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 2002 in General Discussion
THIS IS CIVILIZATION? Global capitalism most barbaric economic system in history By Ed Finn Occasionally, when I venture beyond the friendly confines of the left, I am accosted by people who don't share my aversion for the big corporations and their CEOs. "What have you got against capitalism?" I am asked, accusingly. Sometimes there's a follow-up query: "Would you rather live under a communist system?" To the first question, my flip response is usually that I can't spare the hours or days it would take to list all my objections to the New World Order; and to the second I aver that the choice is not between capitalism and communism, per se, but between civilized and uncivilized ways to run an economy. Capitalism as it is practised today is clearly no improvement over Soviet communism, and arguably is even worse for the majority of people who live under it.. Come to think of it, I could sum up all my reasons for loathing free-market capitalism in just three words: it is barbaric. Look up the word "barbaric" in your dictionary, and you'll find several synonyms, including brutal, savage, and cruel. They all apply to the current capitalist system--and even more so to its overlords. These suave chief executives don't look or act like Attila the Hun. They dress smartly, talk smoothly, and their table manners are impeccable. But strip away the glossy veneer, and you find the savage, ruthless tyrants not far beneath the surface. These modern barbarian chieftains don't personally lead their hordes to invade other countries. They don't physically destroy cultures. They don't openly loot and pillage cities, or massacre their inhabitants. But they engage in the equivalent of all these barbaric activities from the seclusion of their boardrooms, sometimes with just a phone call or a tap on a computer key. Their invasions take the form of "free trade." Their looting and pillaging is done through strip-mining, deforestation, privatization and deregulation, currency speculation, and IMF-enforced repayments of onerous debt-loads. In the wake of these corporate depredations, billions of people are doomed to poverty, hunger and disease, and many thousands to premature death. They are as much the victims of barbarism as were those slaughtered by Attila and Genghis Khan. The business brigands who plan and direct these pogroms don't have blood on their well-manicured hands, but they make the Goths and Vandals look like teenaged delinquents. What do I have against capitalism, indeed! Am I supposed to applaud and endorse an economic system in which 225 billionaires have more money than the two billion poorest people? In which just 4% of the wealth of those 225 individuals--about $40 billion a year--would be enough to eliminate world hunger and provide adequate health care and basic education for everyone? Sorry, but I don't buy all the glib excuses and rationalizations for this obscenely inhumane system trotted out by the Ulites and their propagandists. "The poor will always be with us," they say, quoting the bible. (Yes, they certainly will be as long as the God of the Market so decrees.) "You can't help the poor, sick and hungry by throwing money at them." (How about not taking the money away from them in the first place?) For me, the two events in 1998 that most tellingly revealed the true face of modern capitalism were the crisis on Wall Street in September and the crisis in Central America in November. The crisis on Wall Street was the imminent collapse of a major investment fund--Long-Term Capital Management--after it lost billions gambling on the rise or fall of European currencies. The fund's affluent managers and several hundred investors (who had no one to blame except their own avarice) cried out to be rescued from their folly, and it took just a few days to accumulate the $3.5 billion needed to bail out their fund. The crisis in Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua and El Salvador ravaged millions of people in those countries whose lives and economies were shattered by Hurricane Mitch. But these were not rich investors or speculators. They were poor, homeless, hungry members of the lower classes. So the ChrUtien government's first response was to offer them a paltry $1 million in aid, while the U.S. government coughed up $2 million. Only public outrage over these meagre amounts forced the two governments to increase them. Eventually, with the help of other nations in Europe, the total aid package was boosted to half-a-billion, but this still fell far short of the $2 billion or more needed by Mitch's helpless victims--and well short of the amount raised almost overnight for the wealthy Wall Street speculators. The lesson is that there is fast and generous charity for the greedy, slow and grudging charity for the needy. Basically, capitalism enshrines greed--one of the most repugnant of human vices--as the predominant virtue. The whole system is driven by greed. Selfishness harnessed to initiative is supposed to produce the best of all ways to run an economy, or a country--or even the world. The truth, of course, is that any system that enshrines rapacity as its motivating force must by its very nature be a form of barbarism. Is this really the best system that humankind can devise to allocate the planet's resources? If so, we have no right to call our society civilized. (Or our species, either.) It is just as primitive and causes as much misery and injustice as any social or economic system in human history. A good case could even be made, now that the corporations have succeeded in dominating the entire planet, that this is by far the most unjust and brutal system ever to oppress the world's people. Its defenders argue that it simply reflects the reality of Nature, "red in tooth and claw," which dictates that the law of the jungle must also be the overriding law governing human affairs. All creatures, they claim, are either predators or prey, and the struggle to survive must play itself out in the human jungle, too. If that were true, however, the human predators would not take more prey than they need to survive. The lions and tigers aren't greedy. They don't keep killing more zebras and antelope than they can eat. There aren't 225 lions with more to eat than two billion hogs or deer or giraffes. So don't prattle to me about the law of the jungle or the survival of the fittest. That's an insult to the animals. What we have is an economic system that glorifies, promotes and rewards the basest of human instincts--a system that carries cruelty, injustice and brutalization to their worst extremes. * * *And now that I've told you what I have against capitalism, let me ask you fanatical free-enterprisers: What do you have for it?
Taken from the CCPA Monitor February 1999

Comments

  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Judge,I was really impressed with your literary skills, and wondering how you could have been making all the mistakes that you have in the past, then at the bottom of the page you blew the whole thing out of the water. Just when I thought there was hope for you. You should have let us go on thinking that you had actually wrote this.
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC[This message has been edited by robsguns (edited 01-01-2002).]
  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not going to offer as impassioned a defense of capitalism as the foregoing was set against it, but I think that the writer's oversimplifications and recycled generalizations amount to a soporific diatribe that is bereft of intellectual depth. If the writer wishes to be taken seriously, and I concede that there are issues here that merit such consideration, then he should present some original thoughts or arguments instead of this leftist drivel we've been hearing and reading since the 19th century.My $.02.
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would expect no less from you Mr Dread...I own stock in many of those capitalistic companies you refer to, guess that put me right up there with the great exterminators of all time...Hitler...Stalin...Mao...Pol Pot...I can only shake my head with the logic...or lack of you have posted.
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ndbilly, soporific diatribe??? Hey, billy, I never use a dictionary, could you keep things at my level so I can get a laugh if I'm suppose to, and look confused for reasons I understand instead of being REALLY confused?
    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Its an interesting exersize in hyperbole, and lemming mentality. Until you get to para 8, then you can see that the whole thing is based on the false premise that there is "X" amount of dollars in the world and if a person gets "X+1" another must have "X-1". In other words, its a load of Bravo Sierra
  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, robs, got carried away with the spirit of Ayn Rand. Just meant to say that that kind of stuff puts me to sleep.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, aside from the fact that it is a typical liberal appeal to emotion with few significant facts attached, I take issue with the paragraph about Hurricane Mitch. We have Army and Air Force stationed in Honduras at a Honduran air base. One of the primary missions for our mere existence there is to provide, on a continual basis, humanitarian aid to that region. Helicopter flights with clean water fly out to remote mountain villages. Medical and engineering teams venture out to the remote areas (as I did) to assist in improving the standard of living and education about personal hygene. During the wake of Hurricane Mitch a U.S. helicopter pilot and crew rescued the President of Honduras from floodwaters that were overtaking his position AFTER he refused assistance from his own military pilots even in the face of grave danger. There is no Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) in Honduras which means that we live under their iron hand. For example, I was involved in a traffic accident in Honduras when a vehicle with no headlights came screaming down the highway during hurricane conditions. I pulled off the shoulder in front of him because I could not see him. His vehicle was totalled. The HumVee I was driving suffered a minor dent. He was obviously driving too fast for conditions AND he was running without headlights. Due to the lack of a SOFA agreement, I had to go to a HONDURAN traffic court and be pronounced guilty because I am the rich white man from the USA and we somehow owe this nation something. Also, part of our duties involved making security checks of the flight line. We were issued flight line badges by the commander of Honduran forces. There were many times when the Honduran guards would not let us pass in order to perform our duties. Being soldiers, we felt duty-bound so we ended up getting M-16's pointed in our face with safety off and finger on trigger. They could do this because we were under their iron hand without a SOFA agreement even though we were augmenting their worthless security forces.We provide them assistance continually not only with humanitarian aid but also with missions that I was told not to discuss afterwards. Our engineers on that air base built a shelter at a post where the security police do ID checks on American soldiers coming and going. The Honduran guards have their own shelter but the Honduran base commander made us tear down the shelter and refused to let us erect another until we built him another gate on his perimeter fence. Honduras leeches us constantly for what we give them daily but they bite the hand that feeds them regularly. Now that Panama is closed, our only Central American presence in Honduras is that air base so American forces just deal with it and keep going on with their daily lives. IMHO we were GENEROUS in forking over a few million for that country's aid after Hurricane Mitch! Anyhow, the author of this article got the numbers wrong. We forked over QUITE a bit more than what he quoted.P.S. Hillary and Tipper came to Honduras during the relief efforts to give us words of encouragement. I had just gotten off the night patrol and I didn't even bother to get out of bed![This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-01-2002).]
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Dread:I'll tell you exactly what I tell the numerous kids my own age who think that way.As soon as you throw away your capitalist bought and produced computer, your capitalist bought and produced clothes, your capitalist bought and produced car and house and move to Cuba to farm tobacco with the clothes on your back and a mule, THEN you can talk about how rotten capitalism is.Until then, your just another hypocrite.
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "ndbilly" beat me to it!I was going to suggest reading Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" to get a proper understanding of "capitalism".This "Ed Finn" (and I guess our "Judge Dread" too) are using what is called "a straw man" in their argument. THEY tell us what capitalism is, and then tear it down.Simply stated, capitalism is an economic system where "stuff" (that is: land, buildings, machines, and things like "intellectual property") is owned privately. Capitalism is centered around the idea of private property--the barbaric cultures do not recognize such concepts.We do not currently live in a capitalist society--the U.S. is a mixed economy, some private property, but massive control of the property by government entities. It gets even lest capitalist in other countries around the world.Finn (and Dread) are also operating with the absurd notion that wealth is some type of "fixed commodity"--they imply there is one "wealth pie" and some people are hogging all of it. They fail to understand that wealth is created by productive effort (which has more to do with intellect than "brute force"--none of that "the workers! the worker!" BS please).The simple fact of the matter is that EVERYONE could be as wealthy as billionaires, if everyone was as productive as the billionaires!
  • 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king7mm_ultra_mag_is_king Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BULLZEYE, you sure your only 18??
    when all else fails........................
  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Could it be your pockets are empty and you are just a little down because you didn't invest your money wisely Dread?
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye...Your logic and critical think skills are way beyond your years...and maybe beyond that of most adults. Took a look at your homepage....just a little disapointed, but a little youthful indescretion can happen with anyone. Pull up a smoking jacket, a cognac, and a cuban cigar you should be a member of the Smoking Jacket club, we can all sit around and read a little Marcus Arelius and Plato.... Anyone seen Andrew Adams lately? [This message has been edited by Rembrandt (edited 01-01-2002).]
  • sodbustersodbuster Member Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    One of the freedoms that we enjoy in this Great Country that we live in is our ability to express our views (or if we don't have the wisdom, borrow views of others) and do so without fear of harm to ones self. Just this week an individual was sentenced to death in Communist (not capitalist) China for worshiping Christianity. Judge Dread has the right to post this garbage because he is lucky to live in the Good 'ol UNITED STATES of AMERICA. If America was the way he wan'ts it to be (spelled amerika?) he wouldn't have this right. I fall into the "middle class" of our society. From the results of nunn's survey it looks like a good majority of readers of this forum also fall into this catagory. Under dreads amerika there would be no middle class, there would be only the poor and the elite, ie King, Queen, Warlord etc. Maybe mr dread is also a warlord. It opened my eyes while reading the article that dread copied that this article could have been written by osama bin laden,,,anybody else but me see this? Isn't it because of our free capitalist Country why bin laden hates so much?? Anyway,,GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    7mm:Yeah, I get that a lot Rembrandt:Thank you very much for your kind words and your gracious offer. Currently, I dont own a smoking jacket, but I'm looking into buying one.I'd be thrilled to join the club.
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SUCKERS!Clouder..
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mr. Finn's article impresses me about as much as the Miss America stock answer:"I want to work for "WORLD PEACE"?As the MajaRUSHie would say: "What a load of Barbra Streisand".Mudge the capitalist
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only consideration that one needs to choose between capitalism and communism, is to ask one's self :"Do I have the right to what I have earned?" Period. Notice that Dread offered no solution. Care to, Dread?? Think real hard, now, without cutting and pasting!!!!!!!!!!!
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Natty dread,natty dread nowA dreadlock congo bongo I..Natty 21,000 miles away from home,Oh,natty,natty,and that is a long way for natty to be from home!.....B.Marley.218
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ( soporific diatribe ) well among the nonoglatic brain it may amount to a mental sweat in the effort to read within the lines and 'filter' out the writer emotions distorting the dialectic lines of the postulate (Plainly some did not give a rodent rectum about what they read) .... Some took the BAIT others NOT anyway diversity of opinions was wide and interesting.....
    Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram
  • GolightlyGolightly Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just wondering, my friend is a Communist and hes alright. He has different views and ways then me, but he's a good person. He believes in a different government than me. Is their really anything wrong with that.Most Chinese people are Communists and we do business and trade with them. Back in the day, we were once a different government when Britian ruled us for that short time till we beat them. Any comments ?
    Winchester 1300 Black Shadow Field ShotgunCamo Soft CaseEnough ammo to go to Hell and Back
  • GolightlyGolightly Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just wondering, my friend is a Communist and hes alright. He has different views and ways then me, but he's a good person. He believes in a different government than me. Is their really anything wrong with that.Most Chinese people are Communists and we do business and trade with them. Back in the day, we were once a different government when Britian ruled us for that short time till we beat them. Any comments ?
    Winchester 1300 Black Shadow Field ShotgunCamo Soft CaseEnough ammo to go to Hell and Back
  • GolightlyGolightly Member Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just wondering, my friend is a Communist and hes alright. He has different views and ways then me, but he's a good person. He believes in a different government than me. Is their really anything wrong with that.Most Chinese people are Communists and we do business and trade with them. Back in the day, we were once a different government when Britian ruled us for that short time till we beat them. Any comments ?
    Winchester 1300 Black Shadow Field ShotgunCamo Soft CaseEnough ammo to go to Hell and Back
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Judge, I think I'm ready to award you with the Casey Stengel Memorial Prize for the most incomprehensible series of statements made by a single person in a single year.Golightly, here is what I have against Communists. If they just wanted to go off and live in their own "utopian" community, that would be one thing. But they want to force other people to live under their system and take their freedoms away at the point of a gun. When I visited East Berlin in 1967 (I was 16), I was impressed with the fact that here was a country with barbed wire and machine gun towers to keep people in not out. Here is a picture I took that I later digitized and played with to bring out the feeling I had that day. link If Communists had their way, the whole world would be like that.[This message has been edited by Gordian Blade (edited 01-02-2002).]
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dread:I'll tell you exactly what I tell the numerous kids my own age who think that way.As soon as you throw away your capitalist bought and produced computer, (Made with communist CPU Rams andSoyo main boards) your capitalist bought and produced clothes (Made in North Corea), your capitalist bought and produced (car) With a Borg wagner transmision made inCommunist China) and (house) Made with south american trees cut bychineese communist (Comco) enterprize. and move to Cuba to farm tobacco with the clothes on your back and a mule, THEN you can talk about how rotten capitalism is.(Yea take the embargo out and castro is finished let it continue and he stays in power.......) (Dread)Until then, your just another hypocrite.(Bullzeye) Free trade Hypocrisy anyone ????? (Dread)
    Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Judge, nice try, but your examples prove the point. All of the products you mention are due to capitalist inroads in communist countries, which the original quoted article was so afraid of. The communists couldn't make decent consumer products to save their lives until they imported the designs and fabrication technology from us. I'll have to grant you that they made reliable military hardware, but that's because they absolutely needed it to stay in power.
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey, Dread, did any of those "communist" manufacturers make a profit on the items that you mentioned? If they did, that's capitalism. Did they spread every penny made from selling these things to our country among every citizen of their respective country? If they didn't, it was not communism. Do the leaders of these countries allow any and all citizens who wish to live in their homes to do so, and to use any property of theirs at any time? If they don't, it's not communism, theoretically speaking. Do you have any individual rights, and if so, do you enjoy them? Individual rights are absolutely impossible under communism, whether in theory or in practice.Do you believe that any citizen in this country should be able to use any possession of yours at any time, because they have been given the "right to theft" by communism? If I come and take your car, will you report it as stolen? If you do, you are a capitalist.Do you believe that you exist for the sake of the country? If not, you are not a communist. Do you believe that every achievement of yours has hurt someone else? Yes? Congratulations!! You are a communist!!Do you have a right to be a communist in a capitalist society? Yep. Do have the right to be a capitalist in a communist state? Of course not. You have no rights. Rights ca only belong to an individual. There is no such thing as a collective right. PERIOD.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I know a communistIf he had 2 houses, he'd give you one.If he had 2 cars, he'd give you one.What about a shirt, you ask??he wouldnt give you oneWhy?He has 2 shirts
  • RUGERNUT3RUGERNUT3 Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Boy how fast things go to s*#%@t when im away! I had to run up to an AFB several hrs. north of where nunn stays, from Tues. till now. Mr. Finn needs to move to maybe a nice windswept arabic country....for life! Though I would fight to the death to defend his thoughts, I DAMN sure dissagree with them. Judge,...how can you take anything he says out of "context" and try/want to justyfy it? I suggest to anyone out there that if they can find a way to get on any type of armed forces base to do so, espec. in todays times. The AFB I was at was under FORCE PROTECTION CONDITION: BRAVO, about midway up the security level, w/DELTA being the highest. By some of ya'lls standards the weather there was not bad,...but from an old boy that has called Mesquite, Tx his main base of operations most all his life, 0 chill factor,10 degrees and snow is COLD! And you know what? ALL personnel that i was in contact with were in a great mood and DOING THEIR JOB/DUTY! With no sniveling. And for you guys that have not been in the military,there IS a bit of a "downer" effect that can hit you after the holiday season is over with espec. being away from family & friends through the holidays if your in a combat zone or at a base here in the states.Every single man/woman be it they were manning the hummers facing the gates (mounted with machine guns of course), walking security(which in that weather you freeze your appropriate genitals off), or at the gate security check points, were in great spirits, God and country bless em all!With BRAVO in effect the concrete barricades were of course evrywhere, and I had to park & carry my duffle a couple hundred yards to my OQ's where I stayed..and for a moment I found myself starting to grumble in my thoughts about the hassle, duh, then my sanity came back and I was fine.While there watched the base info channel and saw where at LACKLAND they recently got a letter/package bomb that injured 2 personnel,and all these people were doing were there duty to protect us all, even MR.FINN. Sorry guys, get caried away when i hear/read crap like FINN spits out. His very right to espouse(spell ck) such ideas without being hauled off and beaten and/or thrown in prison is a constitutional right everyone in the military takes an oath to protect even at the cost of your life.(some exceptions might be needed?!on WHO gets protected?! No, cant go there) Just fries my nads about these people you know? Any active military reading this, espec. if this was your first time away during the holidays...America appreciates what you stand for and the sacrifices you are making.GOD BLESS AMERICA.......
    "ANY" EXCUSE IS A GOOD REASON TO BUY "JUST 1 MORE".& VICIE-VERSIE!
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Communist & capitalist = 2 brothers that fight to the death but cannot live without the other......
    Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just came to bury Caesar not to praise him.
  • thebutcherthebutcher Member Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Plain and simple, I don't want to work for someone else to get paid. If I had to, I wouldn't work very hard. Capitalism is the only system that rewards hard work. It might reward greed, avarice, and malice, but it also rewards long hours and smart thinking. Communism doesn't and can't.
  • SkipVanSkipVan Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why is everybody being so nice to commie *? To put it bluntly--WHAT A LOAD OF LEFTY CRAP.
  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JD - Is North Corea related to Chick?
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Now that's damn funny.Must not be many jazz freaks on the board.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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