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Why such Heavy Cal CCW Hardware?????

22WRF22WRF Member Posts: 3,385
edited November 2001 in General Discussion
All the posts on this board in regard to "Which is the best CCW Weapon?" It all seems to favor the large caliber's over easy of concealment. Now the question is for civilan carry, not LEO's as they carry for other that personel protection. As a law abiding citizen with a CCW you sure don't need the hardware for a OK corral shootout. You probably will never fire you carry if you do not more than one or 2 rounds. So why lug all that around?Here is what my state says about carrying.Lawful Use Of A Firearm For DefenseA license to carry a firearm is not a license to use it. Under Florida law, you can use deadly force only if youreasonably believe yourself or another person to be in danger of death or serious personal injury, or to prevent theimminent commission of a forcible felony (such as rape, robbery or carjacking). There are two important concepts toremember: The first is the "Duty To Retreat"; this means that if you can avoid the danger by running away, then runaway, no matter how you may feel that this affects your honor. The second is the "Castle Doctrine", which meansthat you do NOT have a "Duty To Retreat" when in your own home or place of business; you can stand your groundand defend your premises and possessions even if you could avoid personal danger by running away.WARNING: Even if you hold a Concealed Weapons License, pulling your firearm out from its place of concealment without lawful justification, eventhough you don't fire it, can result in a charge of Improper Exhibition Of A Firearm (a misdemeanor, a fine and possible jail time up to 1 year) orAggravated Assault With A Firearm (a felony with a minimum mandatory 3 year prison sentence). Carrying is one big responsibly and hope you never have to use it.OK the pot is stirred
Home of the Blue Angels, P'colaSemper Adveho Absconditus
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Comments

  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To some extent your theory is sound, but with the advent of smaller firearms in larger calibers such as the Glock 30 or 36 in .45 ACP or the S&W Model 60 in .357 magnum, it's somewhat of a moot point. Why pack around a .380 auto or a .32 when you can stuff same-sized .45 or a .357 in your pocket?
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My everyday carry is a Kel-Tec 32. Light, easy to conceal and I know where to place the Hydra Shocks if necessary. Winter carry is a Kel-Tec 9mm with Hydra shocks. I can't figure why anyone would want a hi cap magazine let alone a spare. The chances of needing one are extremely small.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.
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  • semi-autosemi-auto Member Posts: 50 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Two comments to make. No law can compel you to flee an assailant if you are physically unable to(disabled or have wife/kids/grandma with you), or doing so would expose you to greater threat(turning your back to gun/knife/big s.o.b. who will break your neck/karate kid/etc. So long as reasonable people would agree with your belief at that moment(grand jury/district atty.). As for size of caliber, big holes stop a**holes. One side of the story is better than two versions.[This message has been edited by semi-auto (edited 10-30-2001).]
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  • Smoky14Smoky14 Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    " You'll probably never have to use it" I agree BUT IF YOU DO you want the biggest and the badest going for you. I really want to be there to tell my side of the story; and if the bad guy isn't there...oh well.As for LEO's; with all due respect my life is just as important to me as theirs is to them.We are the GOOD GUYS!
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  • Bubba JoelBubba Joel Member Posts: 5,161
    edited November -1
    Lug all that around....I'm 300# in weight....I carry .40cal AMT....with 2 extra clips....Now at 300lbs, that is not a lot to carry around...As for as the caliber of some, WHY NOT....What do you carry?
    I wouldn't mind being the last man on earth-just to see if all of those girls were telling me the truth....
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  • Bubba JoelBubba Joel Member Posts: 5,161
    edited November -1
    Lug all that around....I'm 300# in weight....I carry .40cal AMT....with 2 extra clips....Now at 300lbs, that is not a lot to carry around...As for as the caliber of some, WHY NOT....What do you carry?
    I wouldn't mind being the last man on earth-just to see if all of those girls were telling me the truth....
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  • Guns & GlassGuns & Glass Member Posts: 864 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If wearing body armor or heavy winter clothing would prefer to be hit with a 38 Special than a 22mag.
    Happy Bullet Holes!
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  • seanxseanx Member Posts: 13 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, the obvious reason for such hardware is that it works. A bigger bullet leaves bigger holes. I carry a few of my guns depending on the weather and my clothes. I am a big guy(6'1", 260#) so i can conceal larger weapons. I can handle my full size smith 357 easier tahn a smaller gun. My compact EAA witness in 45 is about as small a gun I feel comfortable holding in an emergency situation.
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  • Shootist3006Shootist3006 Member Posts: 4,171
    edited November -1
    22WRF, the answer to your question is stopping power, nothing more. I ask the other side of the question, why would anyone trust their life to some minor caliber just because it was a couple of ounces lighter?Can't understand those who advocate carrying such as .32 or .380 or 9MM when there are REAL calibers available in just as portable a package.
    Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
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  • Andrew AdamsAndrew Adams Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As you know if you read my defense post last week, I carry a .380. Let me explain why.At the medical school I attend, it is against the rules for me to take a gun on the premises, even with a CCW. If I'm caught with a gun, I can be expelled. The school is located in one of the worst neighborhoods in the US, and car theft is rampant in Philly. In order to minimize my risk, I leave the handgun in my truck when I am on campus. It is concealed so that it cannot be seen either from outside or while in the truck. I decided to put a Jennings .380 in the truck so that if my truck is stolen, my firearm loss is minimized. Why donate an expensive gun to the criminal fund. However, the events of last Wed. evening have convinced me that it is time to upgrade. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, read my post from last Thursday three pages back).My plan now is to go and buy a Hi-Point .45. I checked and I'll have enough room to conceal it in my truck, and I'll have a little more punch if I ever have to use the thing. At the same time, I am still minimizing my losses if my truck was to be stolen. It irritates the hell out of me that I even have to consider this kind of crap, but things are the way they are, so I'll make do until June when I get to move back to Pittsburgh and won't have to worry so much about car theft.
    When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In case you haven't read my other posts about what to carry, I'll do it again.Carry the biggest bore firearm you can handle. I have carried a Commander for a lot of years and have never had a problem concealing it, even during the summer. The .45 is an almost guaranteed "one shot stop".Like I've said before, IMHO the smaller calibers (9MM and smaller) often have hi-cap mags because it take more hits to stop the threat.There are those that adhere to the "shot placement" theory. That's sometimes hard to do under stress. BTDT.Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good point Mudge. Most people haven't been in a fight or flight situation and for them a big gun with a big bang is appropriate. Due to the adrenaline rush they'll probably miss more than they hit.As for me I've been shot at and missed uncounted times, been shot at and hit too. If I need my little pea shooter it will do the job because I can function under duress. The bad guy's the one gonna hurt.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.[This message has been edited by badboybob (edited 10-31-2001).]
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    I disagree with those who refer to a 9mm as a "lesser caliber." The 9mm does not belong in the same catagory as the .25, .32 or .380.I carry a 9mm most times and have it loaded with 115gr.+P JHP. Don't tell me those rounds won't stop a pissed-off perp.Look at the ballistics data. Very little difference between a +P 9mm and a .357, and both of these rounds hit harder than a .45.As far as 9mm pistols needing the hi-cap mag because they won't stop someone with the first shot, I say B.S. To me, having my Glock 17 loaded with 19 rounds of 9mm +P ammo is like carrying a 19-shot .357 magnum. Who wouldn't feel safe with one of those?
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Any caliber is better than no caliber. My regular carry pistol is a kel-tec .40S&W. I have the extra round extension on the clip. Not for the extra round, but so I can get all three fingers on the thing.
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  • mlincolnmlincoln Member Posts: 5,039 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Andrew,For the love of God please don't trust your life to a Hi-Point firearm. Just a damn bad idea. I understand your logic about donating to the criminal arsenal, but at the same time what if you have to pull and use it and that lousy gun jams? You're in a bad area and the chance of you needing a RELAIBLE gun are very high. Hi-Point is a low cost, low quality company.Take the $200 you would spend and get a decent used .357, a Smith or Ruger. It will go bang every time. Yeah, it would stink if the bad guys got such a gun, but you need to protect yourself. If you're too hard up for cash and can't afford $200, email me and I might be able to help you out.
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  • Andrew AdamsAndrew Adams Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mlincoln,Believe it or not, I hadn't even considered going used. That is a good idea. Obviously, the gun doesn't have to be pretty, so I could maybe even pick up a 50% or so. I've got some pretty handguns, I need this one for safety, not looks. I do prefer the feel of a revolver, and I appreciate the comment.It seems to me that I need to go on a tour of the local pawn shops and see what I can pick up.
    When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
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  • 22WRF22WRF Member Posts: 3,385
    edited November -1
    Food for thoughtCartridge Velocity Stopping Power380Auto/90gr JHP 1050fps 70%9mm+P/115gr JHP 1350fps 91% 38Spl+P+/110gr JHP 1250fps 83% 40S&W/135gr JHP 1300fps 96% 10mm/150gr JHP 1300fps 90% 45ACP+P/185gr JHP 1150fps 92% GUN*TESTS Magazine Aug. 1996 edition on Handgun Ammunition
    Home of the Blue Angels, P'colaSemper Adveho Absconditus
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    AndrewAdams- Go down to 13th(or 11th) and Bainbridge. There is a pawn shop there that I have gotten some good deals at.
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  • boogerbooger Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Big caliber why? I don't wanna have to shoot somebody a whole bunch of times in front of the whole world. Inside my home home, well, just don't ask why the perp was shot fifteen times.
    Them ducks is wary.
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  • .250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As the immortal Jeff Cooper sez, you should use the biggest gun you can handle. A handgun is a borderline stopper at best, best to tilt the odds in your favor as much as possible. Hit him with a mouse gun, and you might just piss him off.
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Andrew.....pawn shop is a good idea. Forget anything about getting a gun these days for 50%. Ain't happenin' in this area of West-by God.Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
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  • royc38royc38 Member Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Mudge. You won't get 50% but find 3 or 4 pawn shops around you that you can visit on a regular basis. Once you become a "REGULAR", you can :A. Give them a list of what you are looking for and they will contact you.B. If something good turns up they will give you a better deal than the average Joe-walkin.I have two employees at two shops that will delay "putting it out on the counter" 1 day so I can see it. I am a big believer in buying "new" but I am here to tell you that I have some of my best guns that were purchased used at a pawn shop. But beware, If you don't study what you want and stay patient you will get screwed. I have seen more sorry looking guns at pawn shops than anywhere else.
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  • Andrew AdamsAndrew Adams Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey guys,I meant 50% condition, not price. The thing is going to get beat up riding in my truck anyway, so some scratches on the barrel, etc. don't matter much to me in this situation. I know that there is no way you can pick anything up for 50% price.
    When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
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  • 22WRF22WRF Member Posts: 3,385
    edited November -1
    Since the subject of pawn shops has come up.I can add that making some of my regular "Lookie Lou" visits to the local pawn shops.I got the same story in all of them when I ask."That all got today?" "What no large bore hand guns"?"No auto pistols except those Jennings & Davis 25's 32's and a .380"? ($175 for a Jennings .380)?Answer we can't keep them go as fast as we put them out since 9-11I'm off the Gun Show Sat.
    Home of the Blue Angels, P'colaSemper Adveho AbsconditusNever miss a good chance to shut up (Will Rogers)
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  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    RE: Cooper's "the biggest bore you can handle."I'm sure a number of you have taken deer with a handgun. I have done so several times with a 4" M29, 240 gr. JHP. Chest shots. In each case the deer ran forty yards or so and piled up dead. Not once did the bullet knock them off their feet or cause them to stagger to their knees a la "Dirty Harry". Point being this - Unless the target is hit in the brain, the chances of it dying immediately upon the impact of the bullet are very low. Therefore, use the biggest you can handle and try to shorten the time that the threat exists and remains capable of responding.
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  • cpermdcpermd Member Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hit them firstest with the mostest.
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  • Walt NunleyWalt Nunley Member Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HEY 22WRF WHICH .40 CAL ROUND WAS THE ONE YOU MENTIONED IN THE LIST ABOVE??I CARRY COR-BONS 135GR JHP'S AT 1325FPS
    Submarine Sailor,Truck Driver,and very bad typist.GO RUSTY #2
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  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ndbilly: I have taken two does in the 130-140 lb. range with a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Neither of them took a step, just dropped. 240 gr. JFP through the heart both times, range, 40 yards or so on each (same stand).
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  • 22WRF22WRF Member Posts: 3,385
    edited November -1
    Walt In my list CorBon's dataIn Today's Most Popular Calibers, CorBon is a Top Rated Fightstopper.40S&W/135gr JHP 1300fps 96%
    Home of the Blue Angels, P'colaSemper Adveho AbsconditusNever miss a good chance to shut up (Will Rogers)[This message has been edited by 22WRF (edited 11-02-2001).]
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  • Andrew AdamsAndrew Adams Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A knockdown power story for the group.My Grandpa has now successfully hunted deer for 20+ years with his 44 Mag. For at least the last several, he has carried a super red hawk with open sights. I was standing beside him when this happened, otherwise, I wouldn't have believed it.It was the 1994 doe season in Pennsylvania and I had my deer, and had just completed a push through the woods to his stand. I walked up to his stand, and we were talking about what we were going to do next when I saw a deer emerge from the brush at about 50 yards. He saw the deer at the same time I did, and drew immediately. He took his bead and squeezed the shot off. At the shot, the deer dropped in its tracks, but I saw some unusual movement back in the brush. We walked up to his very dead doe, and about five yards behind it was another very dead doe. The 250 gr cast bullet had passed through the heart of the first doe and hit the second one right in the boiler room. They both dropped in their tracks. Fortunately, he had two unfilled antlerless tags, so the only law that was inadvertently broken was a law that says that you cannot shoot more than one deer at a time, even if you have the tags.BTW, neither of us saw the other deer until we got to the first one, and there was a hill right behind the deer, so it wasn't like the shot was fired in an unsafe direction. I've never seen anything like it, and ever since then, I've been totally sold on the knockdown power of the 44 mag.
    When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Well, that does it for me. From now on I'm packin' nothing but my .44 mag. Ruger Vaquero.I'll get me an inside-the-pants holster and some of those homeboy baggies with room enough in 'em for three fat dudes. Hell, with pants that loose I might as well shove my 500 Mossberg down the other leg.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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  • .250Savage.250Savage Member Posts: 812 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Lowrider, is that a gun in your pants, or are you... oh, never mind.
    I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Now that's funny, Savage.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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  • Ross C. McDonellRoss C. McDonell Member Posts: 36 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guns are suppose to be comforting not comfortable!
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  • will270winwill270win Member Posts: 4,845
    edited November -1
    I have to look at this the same way I look at engine size when I buy a vehicle: There is no REPLACEMENT for DISPLACEMENT. That goes doudle when your life depends on it.
    Got Ammo? will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • TED GARTED GAR Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    THE MILITARY SWITCHED TO THE LARGER CALIBER. SOMETIMES IN THE HEAT AND EXCITEMENT, YOU JUST ARENT GOING TO SHOOT LIKE YOU DID WHEN YOU QUALIFIED, AND YOU WILL BE A LUCKY DOG, IF YOU GET ONE ROUND, TO LAND ON YOUR ASSAILANT. SO YOU BETTER HOPE THAT ONE ROUND DOES THE DAMAGE. IF YOU GOT A LARGER CALIBER, YOU WILL HAVE MORE DAMAGE. PS...NEVER USE FULL METAL JACKET, FOR DEFENSE
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  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    Colt 357 - It may be a little light but rides easy....LowRider - went to the Pulyallup show today, did you go by? God I can't believe the prices they are marking on the AR's and almost all the others. They all want to make their trip off one rifle/gun. I might have a table at the Dec. 15th-16th show in Monroe. Gotta build up the inventory though.
    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)[This message has been edited by BlueTic (edited 11-04-2001).]
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Blue: No, I didn't make it to Puyallup. I'll definitely go to Monroe next month, though.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I like that comment about the gun in your pants. I carry a double barrel in mine...Got twins to prove it....see, I don't shoot no blanks!!!I still think that my nine will do the trick. I know that I sure wouldn't want to be hit by one!!
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Double barrel??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHANow THAT'S funny.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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