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9mm vs. .40
SilentKnight
Member Posts: 2,607 ✭✭✭✭✭
Does a +p 9mm round come close to the ballistics of a "normal" .40 round?
Comments
Here's you're plus P bullets (9mm)
Black hills 115 grain
muzzle velocity 1300 fps
engergy 431 ft/lbs
Remington 115 grain +P
muzzle velocity 1250
energy 399 ft/lbs
Here's a few "normal" .40 S&W rounds
Hornady 155 grain JHP
muzzle velocity 1180
energy 479 ft/lbs
Winchester 155 grain silver tip hollow point
muzzle velocity 1205
energy 500 ft/lbs
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
quote:I'll take energy over muzzle velocity for stopping power. These loads I picked show energy at the muzzle the farther out you go, the greater the energy loss for the 9mm while the .40 does a better job of staying closer to it's muzzle energy.
Couldn't have said it better[:p]
Me own a 9mm...I'd rather drink turpentine and piss on a brush fire!
Greg
Former
USMC
ANGLICO
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Edmund Burke
Me own a 9mm...I'd rather drink turpentine and piss on a brush fire!
Im going to be using it for IDPA matches. So I can go with 9mm with 31 rounds magazines for plinking, or go with the Glock 22 and have the ability to have .40 and .357 SIG.
There are a few(very few) reasons to select a 9MM over a .40S&W for a self defense round. One is that, because the 9MM has a better ballistic coefficient it will have a little flatter trajectory. It will also have deeper penetration in full metal jacket configuration. Another reason would be more cartridges in pre-ban double stack mags. For instance, a Browning Hi-Power has a total of 14 round capacity in 9MM and 11 in .40.
There also classic firearms, like the P-38 and Hi-Power, that just seem to be "right" in 9MM.
For self defense, the best .40 S&W loads are far superior to the best 9MM loads.
God Bless America and...
NEVER Forget WACO
NEVER, EVER Forget 911
Me own a 9mm...I'd rather drink turpentine and piss on a brush fire!
Is 40 scored major or minor?
The gene pool needs chlorine.
I prefer the 40S&W, but never had 100% feeding (didn't take the time, and sold it.
I have a new 40S&W in the pipeline, which is suposedly great...we'll see.
0341USMC
SEMPER FI
Christian
American
heterosexual
PRO GUN
conservative
Any Questions?
9mm=
low recoil
low noise and flash
high mag capacity potential even in smaller compact models
very cheap ammunition available almost everywhere
-
.40s&w=
larger bullet
good oss record
not much more recoil noise or flash than a 9mm
ammo just about as cheap
so the way I look at it is if your a beleiver in the bigger hole theory go with .40,if you want a easier shooting gun with more rounds to offer go with the 9mm and get alot more practice for the money.Either way you go you will have a descent defense gun.9mm is not so weak it will not put someone down but there is a reason alot of the 9mm shooters went to the .40 and never looked back.I tend to lean toward the bigger hole theory myself so Im pretty sure I would pick .40.
"A gun is as good or bad as the man using it"
-Shane-
As far as magazine capacity goes, if the difference between winning and losing means I have to shoot the perp 14 times (14 v 11) I'm already in deep doggie doo.
Get a man's gun...a .45acp for Zeus' sake!
Mudge the .45 fan
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
Make damn sure the caliber starts with the number.......4 !!!
"If they won't give us good terms, come back and we'll fight it out."
-- Gen. James Longstreet
A .45 is big and slow.[:)] I think im going for the .40 and .357 SIG.
Yep, a bus is big and slow too, but it'll sure ruin your day if you're on the receiving end[;)]
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN
If those are the only choices, go .40.
All it takes for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing.
For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration; the streets are safer, the police are more effective, and the rest of the world will follow us into history--Hitler 1937
The only places I'd prefer a 9mm is overseas, or where my main access was to military re-supply, since 9mm might be a lot easier to get in both situations. Otherwise, I believe the .40 is -- in short -- a better fight stopper.
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
Actually according to studies of thousands of real incidents the round that carries the most "one shot stop and kill" power is from hydraulic shock.... (simmilar to throwing a rock in a pond...the ripples, considering the body is mostly water)
According to the studies a lightweight hollowpoint (#1 is .357 (what grain I forgot)#2 is 9mm in 115 gr hollow point) has more real life stopping power then a 145gr 9mm, or 240+gr .45 or even .44 mag.
The study was on over 5,000 real police shootings with various calibers and loads.
All it takes for evil to prevail is that good men do nothing.
For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration; the streets are safer, the police are more effective, and the rest of the world will follow us into history--Hitler 1937
will this thing reach that far?
Love them Beavers
Does a +p 9mm round come close to the ballistics of a "normal" .40 round?
To actually answer your question. . .yes. . .and no.
The 9mms shoot a lighter bullet faster than the .40s. So they do have a slightly flatter trajectory, though at reasonable handgun distances of under 50 yards, that isnt really a factor.
The hottest available 9mm +Ps put out about 450 foot pounds; the normal .40s put out about the same (say 420-520) some less, some more, depends on exact load).
But even though they put out comparable amounts of energy the .40 does it with a heavier bullet. All else being equal, given similar energies, the one with the heavier bullet (and larger diameter bullet) will make a better stopper.
There is no question that .40 is a better stopper, but most emphatically its NOT "way better" than the best 9mms. The best available 9mm 115 grain +Ps have a documented one shot stop percentage of about 91%. Compare that to 94% for the best .40s, and 96% for the best .45s and .357 magnums, and you'll see that 9mms aren't quite as bad as many think they are. (Compare it to 80% OSS for the best .38+Ps).
Advantages of 9mm over .40 are higher capacity, greater ammunition availability, greater firearm availability, and significantly lower cost (if you like, meaning more rounds fireable in training for the same cost). When you add these things together, they may reasonably outweigh the relatively small stopping power disadvantage of the 9mm over the .40.
I'm only wearing Black untill they make something darker
most of the .45 loads aint a LICK better, if any, than the better 9mm loads. Some of the 9mm loads are right at 500 ft lbs, ya know. 90 grs at 1550 fps, for instance, from CorBon. Contrary to bs you read everywhere, they penetrate plenty deeply enough.
Of course this thread quickly degenerates into the old 45 vs 9mm thing thats been done to DEATH. The bottom line here is it depends on WHICH BULLET you're talking about a lot more than which caliber.
The "45 or nothing" diehards won't believe it, but if its 115 grain 9mm +P vs. 230 grain 45 ACP hardball? That's not even debatable.
The 9mm +P is **MUCH** BETTER. The 9mm will give you 450 ft-lbs of energy for about a 90% one shot stop percentage versus only 62% for the .45 hardball (350 ft-lbs). No suprise when you figure that 9mm +P is pushing its .354 caliber bullet nearly at 357 magnum velocities. Hell, even ordinary hardball (Winchester white box at $7 a box) 115 grain 9mm is marginally better than 45, giving you a 70% OSS%.
(Yes. ..read that again, crappy ordinary 9mm is actually BETTER than ordinary 45ACP!)
When you strip away the mythology and look at real street shootings, the dirty truth is that hardball 45 actually isn't really all that good. The 1911 pistol is excellent, and that has a lot to do with the historical popularity of the round. If you compare it to the weak .38 specials that it was designed to replace, its clearly superior. But in the modern civilian world? Forget it. . .hardball 45ACP is a dog. It tends to overpenetrate, wasting some of its energy and posing a risk to bystanders.
The thing of it is, 9mm +P vs 45 isn't really a fair comparison. You're comparing a non expanding military ball round that's nearly 100 years old to a expanding modern round maximized for use in modern high-pressure pistols.
Apply those same design principles to the 45, and you end up with rounds that are literally as good as anything out there, and better than almost all of them. The 45 hydroshoks work as well as the famous hot 357 magnum, and if you compare THOSE to 9mm (any 9mm), the 45 is clearly better!
quote:Originally posted by SilentKnight
Does a +p 9mm round come close to the ballistics of a "normal" .40 round?
To actually answer your question. . .yes. . .and no.
The 9mms shoot a lighter bullet faster than the .40s. So they do have a slightly flatter trajectory, though at reasonable handgun distances of under 50 yards, that isnt really a factor.
The hottest available 9mm +Ps put out about 450 foot pounds; the normal .40s put out about the same (say 420-520) some less, some more, depends on exact load).
But even though they put out comparable amounts of energy the .40 does it with a heavier bullet. All else being equal, given similar energies, the one with the heavier bullet (and larger diameter bullet) will make a better stopper.
There is no question that .40 is a better stopper, but most emphatically its NOT "way better" than the best 9mms. The best available 9mm 115 grain +Ps have a documented one shot stop percentage of about 91%. Compare that to 94% for the best .40s, and 96% for the best .45s and .357 magnums, and you'll see that 9mms aren't quite as bad as many think they are. (Compare it to 80% OSS for the best .38+Ps).
Advantages of 9mm over .40 are higher capacity, greater ammunition availability, greater firearm availability, and significantly lower cost (if you like, meaning more rounds fireable in training for the same cost). When you add these things together, they may reasonably outweigh the relatively small stopping power disadvantage of the 9mm over the .40.
HEhehehe, I knew there would be a way that I would find to like you. I will now go and admire/clean my numerous 9mm handguns and carbines and countless mags and stacks of ammo [;)]