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THE LESSOR OF TWO EVILS--Help?
pickenup
Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
This is a copy and paste from another forum. Will you help?
Two groups for two long have been operating in plain sight while "owning" and controlling America. Unless patriotic Americans force one simple voting law change, the Democrats and Republicans will continue to rule for another hundred years. This exclusive and lengthy two party reign has often caused unnecessary suffering and loss for the America people. Plus it has caused many voters to feel as if they were being asked to vote for the lessor of two evils when they enter the voting booth; it has even caused millions of voters to just not vote at all.
The problem that needs correcting is that voters are afraid to spend their one precious vote on anyone other than a Democrat or a Republican. In the rare instances of an alternative candidate running for office, that candidate is widely expected to lose. This becomes a self-fulfilling expectation because most voters will not "waste" their vote on an expected loss. Therefore, they paradoxically play it "safe" and give their vote to what may be their second choice; the Democratic or Republican candidate. Under these circumstances it is virtually impossible for a political competitor to gain entrance to this exclusive political club owned by the Democrats and Republicans. Most Americans expect numerous and varied choices in television, radio and cable stations, religions, telephone, transportation, automotive, stores and merchants, etc. The American voter also needs and deserves more political choices.
A reasonable change in the voting laws would finally give citizens true freedom of political choice. Change to allow each voter to vote for as many candidates for any particular office as they choose. An example would be three candidates running for a presidential or congressional office. A voters first choice might actually be the 3rd (the alternative) party candidate. But as explained earlier, the voter is afraid to waste their one vote on a likely loss. So the voter plays it safe and reluctantly shifts his support away from his true choice and instead gives his one vote to his second choice. If the simple voting law change was made and that voter could vote for more than one candidate for a particular office, then the voter could have voted for his/her first and second choice. The current practice of the candidate winning the most votes/electoral votes winning the election would of course remain unchanged.
Until this change is made, the Democrats and Republicans will continue to lockout all challengers. This voting change would be good for America. Because for over one hundred years the Democrats and Republicans have smugly taken turns controlling America. Controlling without having to reform their behavior in response to any political pressure except the predictable pressure from each other. This two party control has harmed America. We have over taxation, excessive and wasteful spending, staggering government debts being passed onto our children, partial truths and outright lies dispensed to the trusting citizens, frequent government skirting of our constitution and bill of rights, appointment of judges, executives and managers who often display more loyalty to their party instead of to the constitution or even to fairness and common sense. Both parties robbing the Social Security "Trust Fund", and even giving part of America to people who should not even be here. But regardless of how badly a political party behaves in office, they know that their turn in power will soon come around again.
The average American can only be heard by the power elite if those Americans join together and speak as one. If you agree with this voting change idea, please join your voice with others who share our vision. Please sign and return this letter to me. When I have received enough signed letters I will use them to try and influence different groups and organizations, especially the approximately 40 alternative political parties in America. Those political parties could benefit greatly if they would divert some of their time, money and energy to cause this voting change which would "level the playing field" for them. This leveling would, for the first time, give them an actual chance to provide some much needed competition to the present two party system. Along with signing and returning this letter, I also urge you to use your own creative ideas on how you may promote this needed change.
Signed Sincerely,
printed name
address
e-mail address
Please print, sign, and send this letter to;
TAKE BACK AMERICA
2111 E. Santa Fe
Suite 147
Olathe, KS 66062-1606.
Please feel free to copy this letter and paste it on other boards, send it to friends, or anywhere else you think we might gain support for such and important issue. Together we can make a difference.
Dear Reader, IMPORTANT: to print, click on the "printer friendly" choice at the top right of the topic screen. Also instruct your printer to print only page 1 through 2, because there may be more pages here that you don't want to use up ink printing. Hopefully, this letter will print as a two full page letter. If not, then please detach at the dotted line and if you agree with the thoughts expressed in this letter, sign and mail to me. Only provide as much information as you feel comfortable giving. But remember that the more completed the letter is, the more effective it will be.
I will not encourage doubt by asking for any monetary help with this project. But I am just an average person and there will be noticeable expenses with this project (postage, cost of copies, envelopes, office expense, etc.). If you can spare them, please include a few unused postage stamps with your letter to at least help with the postage. So if you are in agreement with the letter, of if you have suggestions or questions, mail to : TAKE BACK AMERICA, 2111 E. Santa Fe, Suite 147, Olathe, KS 66062-1606.
And thank you.
Two groups for two long have been operating in plain sight while "owning" and controlling America. Unless patriotic Americans force one simple voting law change, the Democrats and Republicans will continue to rule for another hundred years. This exclusive and lengthy two party reign has often caused unnecessary suffering and loss for the America people. Plus it has caused many voters to feel as if they were being asked to vote for the lessor of two evils when they enter the voting booth; it has even caused millions of voters to just not vote at all.
The problem that needs correcting is that voters are afraid to spend their one precious vote on anyone other than a Democrat or a Republican. In the rare instances of an alternative candidate running for office, that candidate is widely expected to lose. This becomes a self-fulfilling expectation because most voters will not "waste" their vote on an expected loss. Therefore, they paradoxically play it "safe" and give their vote to what may be their second choice; the Democratic or Republican candidate. Under these circumstances it is virtually impossible for a political competitor to gain entrance to this exclusive political club owned by the Democrats and Republicans. Most Americans expect numerous and varied choices in television, radio and cable stations, religions, telephone, transportation, automotive, stores and merchants, etc. The American voter also needs and deserves more political choices.
A reasonable change in the voting laws would finally give citizens true freedom of political choice. Change to allow each voter to vote for as many candidates for any particular office as they choose. An example would be three candidates running for a presidential or congressional office. A voters first choice might actually be the 3rd (the alternative) party candidate. But as explained earlier, the voter is afraid to waste their one vote on a likely loss. So the voter plays it safe and reluctantly shifts his support away from his true choice and instead gives his one vote to his second choice. If the simple voting law change was made and that voter could vote for more than one candidate for a particular office, then the voter could have voted for his/her first and second choice. The current practice of the candidate winning the most votes/electoral votes winning the election would of course remain unchanged.
Until this change is made, the Democrats and Republicans will continue to lockout all challengers. This voting change would be good for America. Because for over one hundred years the Democrats and Republicans have smugly taken turns controlling America. Controlling without having to reform their behavior in response to any political pressure except the predictable pressure from each other. This two party control has harmed America. We have over taxation, excessive and wasteful spending, staggering government debts being passed onto our children, partial truths and outright lies dispensed to the trusting citizens, frequent government skirting of our constitution and bill of rights, appointment of judges, executives and managers who often display more loyalty to their party instead of to the constitution or even to fairness and common sense. Both parties robbing the Social Security "Trust Fund", and even giving part of America to people who should not even be here. But regardless of how badly a political party behaves in office, they know that their turn in power will soon come around again.
The average American can only be heard by the power elite if those Americans join together and speak as one. If you agree with this voting change idea, please join your voice with others who share our vision. Please sign and return this letter to me. When I have received enough signed letters I will use them to try and influence different groups and organizations, especially the approximately 40 alternative political parties in America. Those political parties could benefit greatly if they would divert some of their time, money and energy to cause this voting change which would "level the playing field" for them. This leveling would, for the first time, give them an actual chance to provide some much needed competition to the present two party system. Along with signing and returning this letter, I also urge you to use your own creative ideas on how you may promote this needed change.
Signed Sincerely,
printed name
address
e-mail address
Please print, sign, and send this letter to;
TAKE BACK AMERICA
2111 E. Santa Fe
Suite 147
Olathe, KS 66062-1606.
Please feel free to copy this letter and paste it on other boards, send it to friends, or anywhere else you think we might gain support for such and important issue. Together we can make a difference.
Dear Reader, IMPORTANT: to print, click on the "printer friendly" choice at the top right of the topic screen. Also instruct your printer to print only page 1 through 2, because there may be more pages here that you don't want to use up ink printing. Hopefully, this letter will print as a two full page letter. If not, then please detach at the dotted line and if you agree with the thoughts expressed in this letter, sign and mail to me. Only provide as much information as you feel comfortable giving. But remember that the more completed the letter is, the more effective it will be.
I will not encourage doubt by asking for any monetary help with this project. But I am just an average person and there will be noticeable expenses with this project (postage, cost of copies, envelopes, office expense, etc.). If you can spare them, please include a few unused postage stamps with your letter to at least help with the postage. So if you are in agreement with the letter, of if you have suggestions or questions, mail to : TAKE BACK AMERICA, 2111 E. Santa Fe, Suite 147, Olathe, KS 66062-1606.
And thank you.
Comments
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
U!S!A! ALL THE WAY!!
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
JC
Ted Kennedy's breath has killed more people than my car.
Eric
All American Arms Company
Veteran Owned and Operated
Not casting aspirations, just stating fact.
Our current president won, without the majority of the popular vote.
He won by the majority of the "electoral" votes.
The same would hold true here.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
ECC,
Not casting aspirations, just stating fact.
Our current president won, without the majority of the popular vote.
He won by the majority of the "electoral" votes.
The same would hold true here.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
True, but he won with the majority of America...especially if you break it down to a county by county analysis. The problem could get MUCH worse, if you have a President that is elected with say 26% of the vote. The electoral vote usually represents the popular vote, and I believe it did in the last election. Bush won most of this country. Al Gore and the libs only took the metropolitan areas. With a multi-party system, we could easily end up with some left wing communist nut case as our President...elected with only a small percentage of the popular vote. Just my .02
Eric
All American Arms Company
Veteran Owned and Operated
InterstatePawn: Good question of who I am. Will try to answer although I can't see why anyone is interested. I guess I'm just a guy who, though I try to deny it to myself, is just plain anti-social. Sorry.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
From;
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/2000presgeresults.htm
Votes for Bush = 50,456,002
Votes for Gore = 50,999,897
As you can see, Gore won the "popular" vote, but not the "electoral" vote.
(Note, 49% of the eligible voters did not participate in the last presidential election. This new system could also have a heartening effect to that 49% of eligible voters, seeing as how they would not be voting ONLY for the "lesser of two evils.")
This proposal is to let people cast more than one vote.
Instead of, one person, one vote.
It would be, one person, one vote "per party."
For instance, voters of both ruling parties vote for their candidate, all the while thinking that he is the "lesser of two evils" while many on both sides really DO like, and agree with the (majority) of the policies of a third party candidate, but refrain from voting for him because they feel they would be "throwing their vote away." If allowed to vote for more than one "party" the (secondary) COMBINED votes from BOTH major parties, along with the numbers from the (missing) 49%, could possibly establish a majority.
I fail to see how a small percentage of voters could win an election, as you propose.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
No matter how the voting procedures of this country are configured, I DO NOT want to think that us having only two choices for president or congressman/woman is all we should want or need. The people in this country are too diverse to have to fit their political beliefs into one of only two molds. And even if the voting procedures stayed the same, what is wrong with majority rule in this example? Say you have 3 canadidates and #1 gets 33% of the vote, #2 gets 32% and #3 gets 35% of the popular vote. The majority rules acted here in two ways. The majority of the voters REJECTED #2. This left #1 & #3. The MAJORITY accepted #3, who thereby wins.
But this new idea would compensate for a close race like that by giving each voter the right to vote for #1 AND #2, or #1 AND #3, OR #2 AND #3. etc.
And the present situation is SO rotten. Basically the Democraps or Republibums canadidate KNOWS that, even though you may not love him/her, you probably HATE the other canadidate and therefore the party you dislike the least will get your vote. I mean if you despise one party but just hate the other party, where else are you going to go but to vote for the "Lessor of Two Evils"?
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I WILL SIGN ....No Problem,C'mon folks its OUR COUNTRY!,Lets get it back!
Thank you for posting this. I will copy and get as many signees as I can wrangle and get them off to you. Way to go! For not being a sidelines squatter or a monday morning quarterback, but actually DOING something pro-active. Conservatives NEED people like you, to counter all the BIG MOUTH minority that gets catered to in this country. Keep it up!
________________________________________________________________________
"If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace" -Thomas Paine
If the people have become so apathetic that they will not vote out all the liberal scum (republican and democrat alike), the only solution is Constitutional Convention II the sequel. Let's get it right this time.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
The issue is not necessarily that simple. Having a multi-party system could really reak havoc in this country. You could end up with a President that is elected with a small minority of the vote. Think about it...If you have 5 people running for President and the votes get spread out in fairly even margins, one candidate would win with nowhere near the majority of the popular vote. We might end up a lot worse off than we are now! Personally, I think the Dems are loosing a large percentage of their base...we might end up with a one party system...and that would be just fine with me, as long as we can get back to our more conservative roots!
Eric
All American Arms Company
Veteran Owned and Operated
ECC,As much as I am not a fan of the left we need both parties to keep a balance, a one party system would be a disaster. Both parties tend to keep things on an even keel. Checks and balances if you will.
That letter does make you think about how things could be changed.
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
I would have to agree that something along this line would have to help. Most people would agree that there really aren't alot of difference,in the big picture, when you compare the Dems and Repub's.
All they do is promise this and promise that while trying to get elected. The next time you hear alot about those particular topics is when politicians have their respective campaigns again. They never change a thing, they just appeal to the special interests that they subscribe to. Apparently not even the thought of being UN-elected hasn't occurred. Case in point..look at how the Dems reacted when Nader decided to throw his name in the ring again,WOW!!!
Now I truly feel we need something to show them we are willing to fix the system, no matter what is necessary and they seem to be unwilling to do it.
Anytime someone mentions a change in the election system it draws attention, I think this would be and darn good time to do just that.We would even have time to spread the message some before this falls election.
Go for it Fox..[:D]
My youngest brother says that you may be throwing your vote away by voting for a third party candidate. But, compromising your vote and holding your nose to vote for a "lesser of two evils" has other implications. Like he said, I have never belonged to the oldest profession in the world and I'm not about to join now.
Anyway thats the way I see it.The Constitution that everyone like so much to give lip service to gives us the right to vote for the BEST Candidate for the job...It is our RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to do so. How can we expect them to take our 2nd amendment serious (or any of them)if WE don't take the entire thing serious......I say VOTE your concience,Period,worryin about what they will or won't do is just gonna give you an ulcer....Their gonna do it sooner or later if we keep lettin them. Think beyond ourselves as our founders did......I think this is a good way to send a message.Now,whomever always puts the disclaimer at the bottom wanna do that for me now? These are my thoughts...and do not nesscarily reflect....yadda ,yadda.....
L.H.
-pickenup and tr fox, thanks for the effort fellas' and I'm behind you.
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
http://www.lestdarknessfall.com/Pages/WieldPoliticalPower.htm
It's something that I've been passionate about for quite some time. More choices IMHO should force each party to more clearly define themselves in order to garner a loyal following. Right now, it's often "Vote for who you dislike less" rather than vote for your first choice and that is sad. For example, I like the removal of Saddam's regime, but I hate the Patriot act and the Homeland security stuff that errodes our rights. Realistically, I have to balance this against the other choice of more taxes and less defence, which I also don't like.
FYI:
I'm still working on the above web site and in particular have not polished up my "Gun Control" section with supporting links and double checking all of my claims, etc. I thought I'd mention it as if anyone from this site goes there, I suspect they might end up perusing that section too and didn't want you to think I'm an idiot who's just making up stuff[:D] I need to double check my memory of various facts and fix that page up before I start submitting it to search engines.
http://ynot4free.com
Pass it around wherever you post. Who knows, you may one day find that you were a part of something, that actually changed things.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Advanced Member
USA
5784 Posts
Posted - 03/01/2004 : 5:14:43 PM
By signing this and sending it in, at least you can say you TRIED to do SOMETHING, instead of just bi*ching about it all the time.
Thanks that's what I was trying to say!
R/
Dave
How different the world would be if we could consult the veteran instead of the politician. - Henry Miller
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
By signing this and sending it in, at least you can say you TRIED to do SOMETHING, instead of just bi*ching about it all the time.
Pass it around wherever you post. Who knows, you may one day find that you were a part of something, that actually changed things.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
You got that right.....!
My collegue's answer was simple. "Sure," he said, "I disagree with the President's position on all of these issues as well, but I mean, there is no way that I will vote for John Kerry. You've got to go with the lesser of two evils here."
"I understand what you are saying," I replied, "but morally and ethically there is no way I can cast my vote for a man who has promoted SO MANY intrusive federal programs that are bad for this nation. I can't do it. I'll most likely vote for a third party candidate that best represents my values and wishes for this country . . perhaps from the Libertarian Party."
My collegue answered, "So, what, you're just going to throw away your vote?"
And that is what we have come to. There are dozens of small parties out there who will never receive more than lip service by a certain percentage of the electorate, because nobody wants to throw away thier vote. And thus we are left with what we have today . . . a Democratic Party that is poisonous to our Constitutional Republic, and a Rebublican Party that is a "little less" poisonous. But guess what. Eventually the poison - be it red or blue - will kill the very principles this nation was founded on - the very core values that so many Americans have given their lives to protect. The only answer is to offer an antidote in the form of new political representation.
With this in mind, pickenup and tr fox, I will be sending you a signed copy of the above letter. It may fall on deaf ears, but it may not. In either case, I will sleep easier tonight knowing that I have done something - however small.
Thanks. Maybe you could take a copy(s) to work for your co-worker(s) to read. (sign?)
Some people might want to copy the whole thread to see the opinions of the others here.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
I thank you as well........And I dat HOW can you be throwing your vote away doing what was intended by the founding fathers.....Your post was sp illistrative of the mind set of the regular voters.The rest don't even bother.Perhaps we can glean some 3rd party votes and get some signatures from them......?........
please dont tell me the republicans are protecting my second amndt rights and the dems are going to take them away. if gw said he would not extend the awb it wouldnt be discussed except as a election maneuver.if the republican majority refused to allow things to be tacked on to this bill it wouldnt happen either. i dont trust any of them more than they trust me or you to not lie and say what i want to hear and then go and take whats mine.
happiness is a warm gun, preferably preban
Quote "Somehow government decided that the Constitutional Bill of Rights has become the Bill of "Suggested" Rights and are to be rationed to the citizens as the power elite sees fit"
LT. RRG
The site is:
http://www.badnarik.org
The part that might interest these folks is:
http://www.badnarik.org/issues/
Pro-gun
Pro-freedom
Anti-Tax
http://ynot4free.com
quote:The Libertarian Party's presidential candidate will be selected by delegates at the national convention, scheduled for May 27-31 in Atlanta.
quote:Badnarik said his philosophy tallies so closely with Nolan's that the two sound "more like running mates than opponents," and both candidates told the AP that they could end up as running mates in the November election.
http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0404/wisconsin-primary.html
The gene pool needs chlorine.
LT. RRG
a) We'll teach those voters not to mess with the system!
b) Oh Crap! Maybe we better staighten up.
??
________________________________________________________________________
"If there must be trouble let it be in my day, that my child may have peace" -Thomas Paine
If the people have become so apathetic that they will not vote out all the liberal scum (republican and democrat alike), the only solution is Constitutional Convention II the sequel. Let's get it right this time.