Dumb Question Time

njretcop

I suppose that this question should be posted in "Ask The Experts", but everytime I post something there, the question gets locked just as the answers start coming in.

As you all know by now, I have recently come into possession of a Jos. Manton percussion shotgun. I am embarrassed to ask you this, but how do I know what caliber it is? I am assuming it to be a 12 gauge, but need to be sure!




Charlie

"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com

He Dog

Charlie, first see my post on your thread about the several Joseph Mantons, and the Manton labeled Belgium guns. A real, as in London, Manton could very easily go well into 5 figures. The others will not get near that.

As to the bore, measure it. You can use a bore gage to determine the bore and even the choke if any, or you can use a ruler to get a pretty good idea from the bore diameter.

You can compare your measurements to this:

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scales/shotguns.html

He Dog

22WRF

No such thing as a dumb question, sometimes dumb answers though.

Muzzleloading shotgun bores were not very standardized.

But the bore for the various gauges are roughly:

.550 28ga
.615 20ga
.670 16ga
.729 12ga



There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism.
[Teddy Roosevelt]

njretcop

He Dog,

I am going to try to get an expert to look at it to determine if it's a genuine Manton. My digital camera will not take good photos of the proof marks as they are so small. (Maybe it's because I don't know how to use it)

The trouble is that since NJ is the single most gun hating State in the Union, we do not have a lot of experts here, LOL.

In any event, I want to fire it when I gather the proper needs to do so. I have a black powder revolver, so I have some knowledge of shooting them, but don't want to blow up me or the shotgun, haha.




Charlie


"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com

offeror

First, stick in a 12-ga. shell to see if it fits. Now, if it rattles around in there... [:D]

T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."

NRA Life Member

Ronald J. Snow

Simply try a dime in the bore. Roughly figure that full choke it will not fit in, modified will fit snugly, improved cylinder a loose fit. Just to get you started, not very scientific.

He Dog

Good for you Charlie, I hope it is indeed a real London Manton. Then I can say, "I know a guy that has one of those." Have a care with those Damascus barrels, and try to get them properly checked before shooging with it. Or, just go ahead with your plan to let Pa be the first.[:p]

He Dog

pabooger

Charlie: If the size of the barrel is the same size as the hole in a Dunkin Donut, it is a 12 guage!!! [:D][:D] [:I][^]





Kids that fish, hunt and trap have never mugged any old ladies!


To Ride, shoot straight,and speak the truth
This was the Ancient law of Youth
Old times are past, old times are done:
But the Law runs true, O little son!

mudge

Charlie...big gun show in King of Prussia, PA on 3/13-14 and in Harrisburg, PA 3/20-21. I'll bet you can find an expert at one of 'em.

Mudge the helpful

I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!<BR>

pabooger

March??? Hmmm I might have to try and make that show!!!





Kids that fish, hunt and trap have never mugged any old ladies!


To Ride, shoot straight,and speak the truth
This was the Ancient law of Youth
Old times are past, old times are done:
But the Law runs true, O little son!

Contender Man

NYC has some mainline auction houses. Philly should have some good resources as well.

If you have a gun worth thousands of dollars ... do you really want to load it up and let 'er rip before you know what your blastin away with????

Now in the searchin I did when we were all trying to figure out what you had I ran across a Manton that had a price tag of $650, but if others that are more familiar with the London Mfg. guns say they are worth big bucks far be it from me to debate value.

If I can remember the site I found it on I'll post a link.



If you only have time to do two things so-so, or one thing well ... do the one thing!

ATF

If you had a standard 12 ga. shotgun with a modified choke a dime should fit inside the bore .Don't drop in in hold it between your fingers vertical.If it's a full choke the dime will not go in.That's how I check them at a gun show If I forget my gauge.

[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]



It's my cat's world. I'm just here to open cans.

We got rid of the kids. The cat was allergic.


ATF,Eagle Guns

woodsrunner

Charlie maybe I can help a little. Being an original 1800's vintage muzzleloader 99.9% chance it's a cylinder bore. Chokes just weren't practical before breechloaders. Imagine trying to get the wads past the choke without damaging them. Some modern muzzleloading shotguns have choked barrels but, they use modern plastic wads. Also in those days bore sizes weren't really standardized. Most 12 gauges from back then use 13 gauge wads. I highly recomend you send for a Dixie Gun Works catalog. Thier stuff is mostly overpriced, but, 1/4 of the catalog is just reference information. And the catalog is the size of a medium sized cities phone book. It's well worth the $6.00 they charge for it. If you intend to shoot it I would also recomend Rick Hackers book The Muzzleloading Hunter. He even tells how to make your own wads.

I think you have the real thing from your pictures. When I lived in Ithaca, NY I had a friend that was a retired gunsmith. He aquired a real Manton. We even took it out and shot it. Talk about having a great time. Also if you decide to shoot it. Black powder, black powder, black powder are the only options. Notice I did not mention pyrodex,777, clean shot, black canyon, or clear shot. The substitutes do have slightly different burning characteristics and we are talking about damascus barrels that date back to the mid 1870's or before. Also 1oz loads were typical back then in a 12 bore.

Woods

Iconoclast

Charlie, does your camera have a macro (closeup) function? If yes, then a $10 mini-tripod will allow you to set up the camera very close to the area you where you wish to concentrate and you can futz around with the settings / light until you have the proper picture. Try to use natural light and skip the flash - you can lighten the photo with the software which came with the unit or PhotoShop, etc., much more easily than trying to offset the glare from a flash or bright direct lighting. See this example of a headstamp I took with mine:

"There is nothing lower than the human race - except the French." (Mark Twain) ". . . And DemoCraps" (me)

njretcop

Icon,

I'm very impressed with your photo. I have a very expensive camera that has more options than I have brain cells.

I'll try again to get some photos of the marks, but it won't be easy for us camera challenged people. [V][:(][;)]




Charlie

"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com