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A romantic evening interrupted by SWAT Team entry
idsman75
Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
Wow. One of my recruits just gave me a call. He and his girlfriend (who happens to also be a recruit of mine) were having a romantic evening alone together complete with a late-night rented movie and a room lit only by candles. The front door was ripped out of its frame by a battering ram and men in black masks and body armor put them on the ground and held shotguns to their faces while the rest of the house was cleared. Apparently the young lady's sister gave too much information over the internet and a prank call was made to the state police stating that she and her niece had been murdered by her older sister and was barricaded in the house with a hostage. All ended well but I'm a little bit ticked off that there was a small amount of alcohol present for these two underage high school seniors. The town cop poured it out on the front yard and scolded them for the booze but took pity on them for their shaken state and decided not to prefer any charges. Wow! That's one for the scrapbook.
Comments
They acted on heresay and not "Probable Cause"!
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They will be lucky if it only ends there!
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Rugster
"Toujours Pret"
I'm sure they didn't break the door down with one swing of the battering ram. If they were hostages, then they might have had a gun to their head at the time or explosives tied around their bodies. And how would the cops know what floor or what room the hostages were in before breaking in?
It sounds like Local over-zealous cops to me rather then an experianced SWAT team.
Either this is just plain Wrong or information is missing from the original post.
http://www.awbansunset.com/
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
RugerNiner--Establish contact first? It depends on the situation. There are parts of this country where a trained hostage netogiator is not readily available. There may not always be time to properly apprise a hostage negotiator on a situation in time for him/her to do their job correctly which could be just as dangerous as a forcible entry.
The report of the incident was not passed on the internet. Someone related to one of the individuals involved passed on enough personal and family information over the internet to the suspect who made the call to the State Police. That individual knew enough personal information about the family in order to pinpoint where they lived and make a legitimate-sounding report to the police over the telephone.
I'm sure they didn't break the door down with one swing of the battering ram.
Some doors can be opened with only one hit. Trailers are ones that only take one hit; the wall around the door looks like it's may come in at times when you hit the door. You are right some take more than one hit if it a good door with a deadbolt properly installed.
They must have had information that lead them to believe that the entry was necessary to prevent any further loss of life. I feel bad for the kids I now how scary it is to have the guys come in and cuff you.
Get the job done and come home safe guys.
I rush in where others flee.
They were Loaded the whole time.
Had they broken into my house last night there would be a few body bags laying around. I know I don't break any laws and my first reaction would be Headshots.
I've seen on "COPS" where they have used a battering ram without announcing who they are or announcing "Police" at the same time as using the battering ram, which you might not be able to hear over the noise.
This was WRONG WRONG WRONG!
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NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
One best be loaded, locked, and ready to rock.
81st FA BN WWII...Thanks Dad
U!S!A! ALL THE WAY!!
Sorry but I am not buying it. I think someone is telling a tall tale here. There is no doubt the local authorities would check on the actual situation before busting down a door...
I'm suspicious too--yes, I read your response to Flathead, Idsman.
What adds suspicion is the part about the cop pouring out the alcohol and the suggestion that there could have been charges because of underage drinking. This is nonsense. The police had no authority to be on the scene; anything they would have seen that was illegal would not have been admissible in court.
Where's the police report on this supposed occurance? If it happened it's a matter of public record.
Bolt
PEACE THROUGH SUPERIOR FIREPOWER
Survellence on a house takes a while. With all the snooping gear, sound enhancers, microcameras, heat-sensing optical devices, someone will knock a door down because of a phone call? No judge would allow that. It's called hearsay.
If this is true, a door would be the least of the lawsuit.
What men call a hero...is merely a man who is seen doing what a brave man does as a matter of course.
A man who is in love with learning is a man who is never without a bride, for there is always more. L'Amour
When guns were invented everything changed. For the first time in the history of the world a frail woman had a chance to sucessfully defend herself and home. My dream is that one of the anti-gun nuts will need a gun for defense and be unable to have one because of their own actions.
I can't think of any police agency that would burst in without assessing the situation first.
Surround the house, yes. But proceedure in a hostage situation would always be to make a phone call to feel out the situation.
And.....if they felt they had to make a forced entry in a hostage situation, they would almost always throw in "flash-bangs" first.
Charlie
"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com
Thanks to the "Patriot Act", they are no longer necessary.
http://www.awbansunset.com/
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
I know the people involved and they have earned my trust over and over again. I'll be heading out to that town (about 70 miles away) tomorrow. I'll stop in at the local PD and verify. I'll wait save my angst for those that would imply that I (or those involved) are liars.
I apologize for any misunderstanding.
spiny
'not all who wander are lost'
Wonder which patriot 'they' were thinking of?
Benedict Arnold?
Lord Lowrider the Loquacious.
Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
She was only a fisherman's daughter,
But when she saw my rod she reeled.
This has nothing to do with the Patriot Act. Cops have been busting down the doors, and even shooting people, of the wrong houses for years; and I don't mean they got the address mixed up with the house they were really supposed to be busting. They serve no-knock warrants all the time based on bogus information given to them by paid informants and other criminals trying to work deals with law enforcement. Then after your door has been smashed in, your house searched and your family handcuffed you might get a "sorry" as they take their leave.
Oh yer killin me!
Apparently some folks here need to take a class or two in Constitutional Law. Yes, any alcohol found in plain view incident to the entry (provided that the entry itself was deemed lawful)would have been admissable in court.
The entry as you describe it would not be deemed lawful.
quote:Originally posted by idsman75
I know the people involved and they have earned my trust over and over again. I'll be heading out to that town (about 70 miles away) tomorrow. I'll stop in at the local PD and verify. I'll wait save my angst for those that would imply that I (or those involved) are liars.
What town was this in? What state SWAT team conducted the "raid"? Any local TV news station or paper within a hundred miles of this incident would be all over a story like this. Give us a link.
And like Flathead said: I don't mean to be implying that you are lying, Ids; I just don't think you've been given the whole story if events actually unfolded as you've described.
Please post what you find out when you talk with the local police. And if events did unfold as you describe, help get these kids a good lawyer so they can sue the idiot law enforcement officers who conducted such a raid without first verifying information from an annonymous (I assume) phone call.
Police who would act like this based upon (what you are describing as) nothing but one phone call need to find a different line of work--they need jobs where they won't have any access to guns!
I possess signed releases of information and will be interested, for professional reasons, in the details of the story regarding whether or not there were circumstances leading up to the raid of which I was not informed that may impact the enlistment eligibility of those involved.
There are a few here that know me better than others. Those that know me and those about whom I actually have genuine concern will believe me due to the virtue of my word after I have verified the afore-mentioned information. As far as doubters are concerned, I could care less.
Incidents with minors are recorded in police reports every day; the names may be left out, but the events which caused the police to become involved and the specifics of the police response are recorded and are open to any member of the public who wishes to view it.
On-going investigations can have more limited public access to police records. (And if the police did respond in the fashion you describe to what was a "crank call," I'm sure they will be trying to keep the incident as an "on-going investigation" for as long as they can to "cover their butts"--which is all the more reason you should help to get these kids and attorney if their story is true. Shine the light of public scrutiny on police action like this.)
"Save the Whalers, they need jobs too."
It's called (fruits of the crime), and if the LEO's were there legally and the fruits were out in the open there' fair game. They can't go search your underwear drawer looking for a 1956 Harley panhead, but if a stolen 1967 vet is in the garage it's a recovered stolen vehicle.
Idsman75,
I would do some checking into this if I were you. What I shudder at most is that any entry team going in under these slim circumstances would have most likely been under a green light situation. Sounds like someone is stretching the facts, or they are altogether wrong. Now, on the other hand this story could have gone down like it was told. This is not a result of the "Patriot Act". The officers were told that a death had already occurred, and that a live hostage was still being held. An entry team may have been warranted under those circumstances, but some more verification should have been done.
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
The purpetrator has been located in another midwestern state. Apparently a threat was called to the house which the female interpreted as a prank call. This is a tiny little town out in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Things like this just don't happen out there so she didn't take the threat seriously. The purp apparently has some high-tech connections because the phone was immediately disabled after the call. The phone line at the female's house is no longer operational. Investigation has revealed a suspect who has done this to another person recently--another person who he met over the internet from whom he was able to extract enough information to phone in a threat, disable the phoneline somehow and call in a report to the police that something dreadful had happened within the residence. This information was provided to the purpetrator via the internet by the female victim's older sister who has been living there temporarily. It isn't possible to make contact with individuals inside when there is no functioning phone line. Sure, they could have broken a window and tossed in a cell phone. However, the telephonic report made to law enforcement stated that the murderer inside had an infant hostage and was not going to be taken alive. Innocent life was presumed to be in imminent danger. Had these murders actually occured, the LEO's involved would have had to sleep with the possibility of an idditional murder via their inaction had they not acted quickly. That's my interpretation.
This information was verified with the second party with whom I had not spoken until this morning and also the local police. It was the local police who had actually told the victim to empty the alcohol onto the grass of the front yard in lieu of being charged with an MIP.
Whether or not the alcohol could have been used against them in court is moot. Leaving the alcohol in possession of the minors would have been irresponsible and immoral in my opinion. I believe that, if a judge deemed the police presence in the home legal, the alcohol would have been admissable as evidence towards an MIP charge.
I am not here to entertain. Whether or not I decide to protect the identity of the individuals involved is my perogative. Sure, the story may be made a matter of public information. However, names and addresses may be deduced from other sources if I mention the town or county or state where this occurred. I obtained this information through the course of my official duties. I withhold locations and agencies involved because my first loyalty is to my soldiers--not to members of this forum.
You can decide whether or not I have lied now that I claim to have verified the information throuh multiple credible sources.
Get the job done and come home safe guys.
I rush in where others flee.
It isn't possible to make contact with individuals inside when there is no functioning phone line.
No cop thought to ring the doorbell or knock on the door while wearing a "pizza delivery uniform" disguise and pretending to be trying to deliver a pizza? I still can't get over the idea that they just decide to bust right in with information from nothing more than just a telephone call? This "crank caller" must be extremely talented to convince police to call out a SWAT team and follow the course of action they did.
What's the name of this perpetrator who has been located? What city and state is he in? You feel the need to protect the identity of your "recruits" (which is understandable), but I'm sure you won't object to revealing details about the perpetrator? I'm really curious to learn about the techniques he used to remotely disable other people's phones; he's done some extremely serious hacking if he has access to the phone company's codes/data bases to be able to disable phones.
I did a search looking for published articles about this whole event--I couldn't find any. Ids, email me with some of the details you don't want to post (like the state/county/town where this took place--ask your recruits if they would be interested in talking to any reporters about this?). This has the makings to be the start of one hell of a story; if local media in the area isn't interested in pursuing it, I know some people who might want to write/report about it.
--Joe
competentone@hotmail.com