OR:Law dents gun show sales

Josey1

Law dents gun show sales The Associated Press12/30/01 3:27 PMPORTLAND, Ore. (AP) -- In its first year, Oregon's gun control law, Measure 5, has cut down on the number of dealers at gun shows and, supporters say, saved lives by keeping guns out of the hands of felons. The new law, the Gun Violence Prevention Act, closed the so-called gun show loophole by requiring private collectors to run a criminal background check on their customers. Previously, only federally licensed firearms dealers -- people who made their living selling guns -- were required to run the checks. Now private collectors at any venue where more than 25 guns are for sale are required to pay $9 for a telephone background check with the state police. The law won passage with 62 percent of the vote in November, 2000. This year, many formerly exempt private collectors who once flocked to Oregon's 160 gun shows stayed away or sold items other than guns. The state's largest show operator saw a dramatic decrease in the number of private dealers. "I've dropped from 1,400 tables to 1,000," said Ken Glass, owner of Rose City Gun Collectors, who held shows on seven weekends this year at the Portland Expo Center, drawing 7,000 to 10,000 people each weekend. Glass said many of those tables had gone to private collectors who sold and traded guns without a federal firearms dealer's license. "A lot of them have quit doing it altogether," Glass said. "Where some of them were taking three to four tables, now they're taking one and selling other things." Sen. Ginny Burdick, D-Portland, one of Measure 5's chief sponsors, said many of those collectors were in fact dealers making a living selling guns. Opponents of gun control say Measure 5 resulted in only a tiny increase in criminal background checks, while driving away legitimate gun enthusiasts. According to the Oregon State Police, 549 private sellers at gun shows requested checks of their customers through November -- less than 5 percent of the 9,390 background checks requested at gun shows in the state and less than half of 1 percent of the 121,737 gun deals statewide. Glass said many private sellers had federal dealers run the checks for them, which would skew the numbers. Regardless, John Hellen of Oregon Gun Owners, a gun rights group, said the number of checks for private sales at gun shows is so low it shocks him. "It illustrates that the problem was not even close to the size (Burdick) claimed it was," he said. "Those kinds of checks that she tried to close were a minuscule part of the gun transactions in Oregon." John Nichols, also of Oregon Gun Owners, said that the underground market for guns still exists despite the new law. "I don't think it's any secret that when you have gun control, you have a larger underground market," Nichols said. Burdick, the law's sponsor, said the alternative is worse. "If it does go underground it's certainly not so convenient for people," she said. "I certainly don't regret pushing the ballot measure through. I believe it already has saved lives." http://www.oregonlive.com/newsflash/oregon/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?o0027_BC_OR--GunShows Copyright 2001 Associated

DaRoosta

Thanks for the post.I've lived in Oregon all my life and used to enjoy going to gun shows. Now they're more like knife and junk shows. I still go every once in awhile, but there just doesn't seem to be the quality there used to be. I've noticed a huge drop off in attendees, which is basically a snowball effect. The sellers don't want to attend because there aren't as many attendees and the customers don't want to go because there aren't as many sellers.I'm a full supporter of Measure 5 and background checks. I just wish it didn't have such a dramatic effect on everything else.

COWBOYKIDD

Small world.. I too have lived in Oregon most of my life. I have to say for the most part that the gun shows seem to be about the same as they always have. The vendors mark their items high to see if they can catchthe inexperienced Joe citizen. If you know what your looking for and know some people there you can often times get a good deal if you like to haggle and bs a little.I bought a gun safe for a real deal on the last day, because the vendor could still make a few bucks and wouldnt have to haul the thing off.As far as the Measure 5 I think its sort of a joke. To keep guns out of the hands of felons, well maybe but I dont think your criminal minded people would go shoping at a gun show for a weapon to perform his next crime. Do you? No its just a way to collect revenue. Heck I like going to one table and pay 9 bucks for a background check for a gun. Then if I see another gun I want at another table maybe 20 minutes later I get to pay another 9 bucks again. Make sense?? NOScrewed up law that could or rather should have been tailored to due what it was intended instead of penalizing the law abiding gun owner. But for the most part people are like cattle and tend to follow the herd.I dont agree with Measure 5 Kidd

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Politicians Love Gun Control / China Has Gun Control

DaRoosta

Interesting perspective, Kidd. I live in Southern Oregon, which obviously doesn't draw the numbers of most gun shows in the Portland area. I grew up in Portland, though, and remember some of the big ones up there. That was a real treat, and maybe still are. The shows I attend decreases each year because of the inflated entrance fees and the lack of quality merchandise. I don't like browsing through the knife and junk tables. I guess they just seem like garage sales with background checks now. Some people like it, it's just not for me.About your point on Measure 5, all laws are really only for law-abiding citizens anyway. Measure 5 was kind of the "PC" thing to do, making legislators look good when they needed it to.I couldn't agree more with you that criminals don't go gun shopping at gun shows (or gun shops). I'm just saying I don't mind background checks. The $9.00 does bother me since I figured if they're going to pass a measure like this, it would be built in with tax-payer money. The additional charge is just stupid, but because it's minimal I think we just accept it. Where does that money go? It can't possibly actually cost Oregon $9 to look up my social security number on their computer and see I'm clean...or could it? There haven't been any new programs set up with this money to help control criminals and their ability to get guns that I know of. They're still going to find their weapons by breaking into my place and stealing them...from a perfectly law-abiding citizen.

COWBOYKIDD

I have never been to a gun show in Medford or Gold Hill but I did stay down there for about 6 months while demolishing the Medcolumber mill a few years back. Seemed like a nice quiet town. As to your question on what they do with the money Im not sure I thought it was to compensate the state police for the time taken to run the check.I have won a couple auctions and will be going to get a copy of my gun dealers ffl. I will ask him and see what he knows. Well take care and if you ever decide to come to Portland show let me know. God help the criminal that tries to break into my house to steal my guns..Kidd

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Politicians Love Gun Control / China Has Gun Control

HAL-9000

Yup Sharron BurDICK is a dufus, at every gun show I go to I see people making a deal at the show and doing the trade in a parking lot. I just get the weapons from ads in the "Nickle Ads". Private sales just moved outside, or somewhere else. The last four guns I bought from from private sales, Sharons law didn't seem to stop any of those.God, she is so stupid.laterHAL

DaRoosta

Hal - I never even thought of that. I guess I'm sort of ignorant, or just plain stupid. I never even look for that stuff, but now that you mention it, I'm sure it happens all the time. I'm like you, most of the time I look in the local papers and in the nickel ads, like you said. Obviously, it's much easier to both buy and sell as a private party that way.I've never bought anything at a gun show that required a background check...actually I'm not even sure I've ever bought anything at a gun show at all. Not before the whole Measure 5 thing or after. Like I said before, I don't mind background checks. I guess I just accept it because it's a minimal fee and I don't have anything to hide. Then again, I am a law-abiding citizen and having everyone know what I'm buying doesn't exactly rub me the right way. I like my privacy when it comes to things like that. I'd hate to have some kind of seizure on weapons where they could only seize weapons that were registered. Half of my collection would be gone. I don't think this will happen, but you never know the way things are going.

Curly

Speaking of gun shows in Oregon....do you guys know if any dealers sell rifles at the portland sportsmen show in February? I am thinking of going down there for the show and thought maybe I might find a good deal; especially since I won't have to pay sales tax like I do in WA.

DaRoosta

Curly - I work at the Portland Sporstman's Show every year. It's a terrific show, but no rifles for sale. There are lots of hunting exhibits, optics booths, hunting and fishing guide trips, boats, trailers, ATV's, etc. There is a gun show up there (in Portland) that's huge, but I don't remember when it happens. The guys who are at the Portland Sportsman's Show are part of a circuit. They have them all over Oregon for about a month or so. Some only come for the Portland show, but most stay for the entire circuit. I don't know if they do any in Washington, but I can check on it for you if you'd like.My favorite thing is talking to all the guides at the Sportsman's show. A bunch come down from Canada and Alaska and it's a good time to make contacts if you're interested in ever hunting up there. Just make sure you get there really early because parking is a mess. I don't want to offer you tickets yet, as I don't know what our sponsor's package looks like for this year. If we have extras, I'll post for you and let you know.You're right that the sales tax thing is a big factor. We pay for it through the nose with all of our other taxes and fees. If you're looking to save money on a big purchase, like what you mentioned earlier, drop me an e-mail.

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