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If you're serious, and pig is on the menu, you want the trusty 30-06;
I've hunted pig in Az and NM, and nine times outta ten you only get one shot at pigs, if you don't knoch him down with that one opportunity, you better forget about trackin and finding him.
Theirs is no animal in The America you can't hunt and effectively kill with one shot from a 30-06.
It has the widest range of bullet weights of any other caliber, combine this with loads and, that's why it's considered the best all around.
Why own three rifles that shoot different cal's, when one does it all?
Don't make sense, save your money and buy reloading equipment for your 30-06 (store different loads and bullet wieghts) and save add'l money if you shoot alot.
Thats the way to go.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Seems to me that there is a bit of a difference in opinion here. I see 3 distinct schools of thought: 1. There is the MINOR caliber school with everything from 7MM MAg to .218 Bee 2. There is the BIG and SLOW school centered around the .45-70 3. There is the wise and sound logic school recognizing the value of the .30-06
Since 3 is one school of thought too many, we need to combine #'s 1 and 2 and hope that together they can come close to the logic of the .30-06. I suggest a new cartgidge based on the .45-70 necked down to .224. We could call it the .218 BUMBLEBEE. Just think of all the articles the gun mags could put out extolling the values of a big fat case (just like the current short magnum craze), full of black powder (for the cowboy action shooter), with a small bullet (for all the AR fans) at fairly slow velocities (for the AK fans). Heck, we could fill several issues of Guns and Ammo and Handloader and (if we can get either Dick Casull or NAA interested) several issues of Handgunner also!!!
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
quote:At the risk of sounding like some sort of a reactionary dinosaur, WHAT exactly drops dead at 100 yards after a hit from a .10 sized piece of metal? The unlucky grasshopper that crawled on top of the target?
hook line and sinker
I was ridiculing the .17 for a hunting round. Especially at long range.
Thanks for helping me make the point.
I think there is a fourth school of thought, that which beleives fast bullets kill better than slower bullets of the same weight.
7mm rem mag 150gr from 24" barrel
3110 fps 2200@500yds
3222 ft. lbs. energy 1612@500yds
30-06 sprg 150 gr from 24" barrel
2910 fps 1934@500yds
2821 ft lbs energy 1247@500yds
for a grand total difference of 200fps and 401 ft lbs energy (muzzle). Considering most magnums are now sold with 26" barrels, add another 100fps and 125 ft lbs energy to the 7mm mag.
7mm rem mag from 24" barrel
zero @ 150yds -8.3" at 300yds
zero @ 200yds -34.8 at 500yds
30-06 from a 24" barrel
zero @ 150yds -10.2" at 300yds
zero @ 200yds -42.8" at 500yds
trajectory tells the same story, the gap between them increases with distance.
Hey there 30-06, you shouldn't be making fun of you younger, sleeker, better looking brother the .280 Rem. We all know it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
Just kidding, to me you can flip a coin between these two cartridges on this subject. However, I am just not so sure that the .06 case is sufficient to push the 220 for big bear. I would go with the .300 WM for that one, or better yet the .338 WM.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
Personally I don't get excited about Foot Pounds of Energy, it doesn't mean squat. The 22-250 has more foot pounds of energy at the muzzle with a factory loaded 55 grain bullet than the 45-70 does with a factory loaded 400 grain bullet. But which would you rather shoot a charging bear with?
AlleninAlaska
He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
-- Thomas Paine
either the 270 or 06 would work fine IMHO and just about all the other cals mentioned would work fine also(7mm, 280 rem 300 win mag ect ect). buy one then if you dont like it buy another ..then buy another ....then buy another :-) cant own to many guns or at least that is my theory.
doc
I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!
Thanks guys for all the help, I know now that it will most likely be the 30-06 or 270. I'm leaning towards the 30-06 though. I can't wait to get to play around with some loads for whatever I get. Thanks again.
"To be prepared for War is one of the most
effectual means of preserving peace"-George Washington
garandfan I think that most are missing a very important point ( at least to me ) If you only have one rifle to hunt with make a common round. Just think about driveing 200-300 miles to go hunting and forgetting all that handloaded ammo at home?? Has anyone ever done that and tried to buy "22/70", "280/400nitro", or even common 280rem out in the middle of bum****.?? You can always find 30-06 and sometimes 270 I have/or had most of the guns others posted but will always have a -06 with me on any hunt if even only as a back-up gun Some thing to think about. clois
quote:
Im sorry, but are you guys serious? My opinion...anything less than .308 caliber is silly for Elk, unless you really enjoy tracking with a flashlight if your shot is at dusk. Yes I know,"a well placed shot with ANY rifle wil kill your game." BUT...what if you are a little off for some reason, or your bullet hits a twig or something? You end up with aa wounded animal. 30-06 30-06 30-06= KNOCKDOWN! If you REALLY want to do the job..use a 338, 358, or 375...Knockdown=Humane kill.
With modern expanding bullets and proper shot placement you're not going to have any problem.
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
quote:
leeblackman,
the .308 was derived from the old .300 Savage. I would also like to see a .45/70 travel 1000 Yards. Okay, I shoot the .30/06 but
also would not hesitate using a 7mm Mag on a bull elk, if ever drawn
The 50 BMG would definitely do the job and you would not have to worry about any field dressing. Zip Lock specials.
Thats a pretty ignorant statement, I hope you don't feel as though you've corrected me or anything...
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
shootist30/06 I appreciate your devotion to your caliber. Hnadloading data however will not convince me that it will push a 150gr bullet as fast a a 7mm mag with LOTS of powder. I only used factory balistics. Now, when I had them going 3300+ well lets' just say I decided burning a barrel would be faster if I threw it in the fireplace. I have 2 06's also, but my preference is the 7mm, just flatter for the crop damage shots. All modern firearms and bullets are overkill for whitetail out to 200yds, it only requires a well placed shot and a 22-250 will drop them in their tracks. Like I said, just a preference.
I was ridiculing the .17 for a hunting round. Especially at long range.
Thanks for helping me make the point.
Heh. No problem. I probably should have seen that one.
But being that on this board I've talked to people who use a .17HMR on coyotes, and even one person who insisted repeatedly that a .22LR is more than enough of a bullet for any deer out there.
Not to mention the amazing .223 bear/moose/elk/muley/rhino/elephant killer.
"no such thing as overkill, but such thing as not dead enough" brings to mind a point that must be made when talking about an all around hunting caliber,......shooting ability.
If you are lacking, you need a BIG bullet to make up for your deficiency, I.E. misplaced shots.
If you are a good shot, a much smaller bullet will do, especially when placed on the neck/head.
Talking all around think 270. that cal.has the correct balance twist versus velocity than any other round on the market. Proven not surmised. the biggest mistake in cal.s I've seen in recent years is the 7mm mag. Any grain past medium range and you face the very real problem of stabilazation.
quote:
Seems to me that there is a bit of a difference in opinion here. I see 3 distinct schools of thought: 1. There is the MINOR caliber school with everything from 7MM MAg to .218 Bee 2. There is the BIG and SLOW school centered around the .45-70 3. There is the wise and sound logic school recognizing the value of the .30-06
Since 3 is one school of thought too many, we need to combine #'s 1 and 2 and hope that together they can come close to the logic of the .30-06. I suggest a new cartgidge based on the .45-70 necked down to .224. We could call it the .218 BUMBLEBEE. Just think of all the articles the gun mags could put out extolling the values of a big fat case (just like the current short magnum craze), full of black powder (for the cowboy action shooter), with a small bullet (for all the AR fans) at fairly slow velocities (for the AK fans). Heck, we could fill several issues of Guns and Ammo and Handloader and (if we can get either Dick Casull or NAA interested) several issues of Handgunner also!!!
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
Shootist-06...The recoil woild bee awesom
In all seriousness,and nothin` about bees...
the -06 is the round to beat..they`ve been tryin` to for a hunderd years.
Comments
You ain't alone, there's tons of us .280 afficionados out there! Been in a love affair with the round for at least twenty years, now.
I've hunted pig in Az and NM, and nine times outta ten you only get one shot at pigs, if you don't knoch him down with that one opportunity, you better forget about trackin and finding him.
Theirs is no animal in The America you can't hunt and effectively kill with one shot from a 30-06.
It has the widest range of bullet weights of any other caliber, combine this with loads and, that's why it's considered the best all around.
Why own three rifles that shoot different cal's, when one does it all?
Don't make sense, save your money and buy reloading equipment for your 30-06 (store different loads and bullet wieghts) and save add'l money if you shoot alot.
Thats the way to go.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Since 3 is one school of thought too many, we need to combine #'s 1 and 2 and hope that together they can come close to the logic of the .30-06. I suggest a new cartgidge based on the .45-70 necked down to .224. We could call it the .218 BUMBLEBEE. Just think of all the articles the gun mags could put out extolling the values of a big fat case (just like the current short magnum craze), full of black powder (for the cowboy action shooter), with a small bullet (for all the AR fans) at fairly slow velocities (for the AK fans). Heck, we could fill several issues of Guns and Ammo and Handloader and (if we can get either Dick Casull or NAA interested) several issues of Handgunner also!!!
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
hook line and sinker
I was ridiculing the .17 for a hunting round. Especially at long range.
Thanks for helping me make the point.
moc.murofsmraerifeht.www
Edited by - warpig883 on 08/16/2002 14:31:17
7mm rem mag 150gr from 24" barrel
3110 fps 2200@500yds
3222 ft. lbs. energy 1612@500yds
30-06 sprg 150 gr from 24" barrel
2910 fps 1934@500yds
2821 ft lbs energy 1247@500yds
for a grand total difference of 200fps and 401 ft lbs energy (muzzle). Considering most magnums are now sold with 26" barrels, add another 100fps and 125 ft lbs energy to the 7mm mag.
7mm rem mag from 24" barrel
zero @ 150yds -8.3" at 300yds
zero @ 200yds -34.8 at 500yds
30-06 from a 24" barrel
zero @ 150yds -10.2" at 300yds
zero @ 200yds -42.8" at 500yds
trajectory tells the same story, the gap between them increases with distance.
A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
Edited by - JustC on 08/16/2002 14:32:07
Just kidding, to me you can flip a coin between these two cartridges on this subject. However, I am just not so sure that the .06 case is sufficient to push the 220 for big bear. I would go with the .300 WM for that one, or better yet the .338 WM.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
AlleninAlaska
He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
-- Thomas Paine
doc
I dont give my guns without somebody getting hurt!
"To be prepared for War is one of the most
effectual means of preserving peace"-George Washington
GREAT CHOICE
-06 RULES
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
It should only take one !!!
Im sorry, but are you guys serious? My opinion...anything less than .308 caliber is silly for Elk, unless you really enjoy tracking with a flashlight if your shot is at dusk. Yes I know,"a well placed shot with ANY rifle wil kill your game." BUT...what if you are a little off for some reason, or your bullet hits a twig or something? You end up with aa wounded animal. 30-06 30-06 30-06= KNOCKDOWN! If you REALLY want to do the job..use a 338, 358, or 375...Knockdown=Humane kill.
With modern expanding bullets and proper shot placement you're not going to have any problem.
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
leeblackman,
the .308 was derived from the old .300 Savage. I would also like to see a .45/70 travel 1000 Yards. Okay, I shoot the .30/06 but
also would not hesitate using a 7mm Mag on a bull elk, if ever drawn
The 50 BMG would definitely do the job and you would not have to worry about any field dressing. Zip Lock specials.
Thats a pretty ignorant statement, I hope you don't feel as though you've corrected me or anything...
If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.
The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
AlleninAlaska
He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
-- Thomas Paine
hook line and sinker
I was ridiculing the .17 for a hunting round. Especially at long range.
Thanks for helping me make the point.
Heh. No problem. I probably should have seen that one.
But being that on this board I've talked to people who use a .17HMR on coyotes, and even one person who insisted repeatedly that a .22LR is more than enough of a bullet for any deer out there.
Not to mention the amazing .223 bear/moose/elk/muley/rhino/elephant killer.
If you are lacking, you need a BIG bullet to make up for your deficiency, I.E. misplaced shots.
If you are a good shot, a much smaller bullet will do, especially when placed on the neck/head.
I guess it's a relative thing.
A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
Seems to me that there is a bit of a difference in opinion here. I see 3 distinct schools of thought: 1. There is the MINOR caliber school with everything from 7MM MAg to .218 Bee 2. There is the BIG and SLOW school centered around the .45-70 3. There is the wise and sound logic school recognizing the value of the .30-06
Since 3 is one school of thought too many, we need to combine #'s 1 and 2 and hope that together they can come close to the logic of the .30-06. I suggest a new cartgidge based on the .45-70 necked down to .224. We could call it the .218 BUMBLEBEE. Just think of all the articles the gun mags could put out extolling the values of a big fat case (just like the current short magnum craze), full of black powder (for the cowboy action shooter), with a small bullet (for all the AR fans) at fairly slow velocities (for the AK fans). Heck, we could fill several issues of Guns and Ammo and Handloader and (if we can get either Dick Casull or NAA interested) several issues of Handgunner also!!!
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
Shootist-06...The recoil woild bee awesom
In all seriousness,and nothin` about bees...
the -06 is the round to beat..they`ve been tryin` to for a hunderd years.
.218
Did sombody say somethin` about bees?