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Gold dental work and cremation.....

RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
...conversation came up at work today about someones relative who passed away recently....this person had a lot of gold dental work and was cremated...when they poured the ashes out on a lake, there was no gold amoung the remains......?

Comments

  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's a well known fact that the remains you receive are not always those of your loved one. I believe they burn several bodies at a time and divide up the ashes at the end. Either that or you've got a very sick person with a severe gold fetish.
    Munkey

    The itsy, bitsy spider crawled up the water...
    BLAM BLAM BLAM!

    Edited by - thesupermonkey on 09/16/2002 17:47:17
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Monkey, can't say I knew that, I always thought it was one at a time....maybe that explains why the funeral director drives a Caddy...

    Edited by - Rembrandt on 09/16/2002 17:56:44
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    It sounds ghoulish, but remember the Nazis? They got the gold before they did away with their victims.

    Gold, from whatever source, has value.



    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
  • ATFATF Member Posts: 11,683 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Danceswithsheep,queston is who gets the gold ?



    ATF
  • PelicanPelican Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And dental gold is 16kt. Current market would spot at about $206 an oz. You will get anywhere from 50-95% depending on where you sell.

    Another thing, if you are in charge of a loved ones funeral, never buy new shoes. You can bet they won't be buried. A mortician told me so.

    The Almighty Himself Entrusted the Future of All Living Creatures to a Wooden Boat.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -"Audemus jura nostra defendere"

    Edited by - Pelican on 09/16/2002 18:52:27
  • n/an/a Member Posts: 168,427
    edited November -1
    What a topic... especially when my baby is just had stents put in.... morbid or what?... sheeeeeeeeeeesh guys.. give a girl a break... *LOL..


    Lil' Stinker's Opinion
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    When I was about 20,I knew a guy who`s dad owned a funeral home.The ol` man would have him take cardboard boxes(like the kind from the liquer store)full of ashes and fine bone,
    out off Alligator Ally,and dump them in the canal.

    I asked him about it,and he said those are leftovers from hundreds of people,when sombody wants ashes,they just scoop from a box.

    So in this case,ya * ashes from hundreds of people who were cremated long before yer kin,and ya don`t * squat from yer kin.

    .218
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    218Beekeep: That's a bourbon legend.
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Beekeep, that funeral director wasn't related to the one from Atlanta was he?....
  • HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    Here at the hospital, we have sort of a crematorium - it's actually a medical waste burner.
    But it takes dogs, amputated limbs and such too, medical waste like medicine, blood, tubes, rubber, plastic and much more.

    All that is left is ashes, bent and melted needles as well as a slight portion og glass together with melted metals like gold and such.

    After a burn, you might find a small lump of melted metals, lead, gold, silver or whatever has been burnt. all burnt into one lump.
    It can't be used for anything though, and some is mixed with ashes because of the airflow.

    It might sound silly, but I was told that it would take too much energy to absolutely burn everything, so smaller bonefragments would be sifted from the ashes - and only the ashes would be passed on to the relatives.
    So some bonefragments that haven't been totally cremated and metals like gold, lead, scrapnel or whatever there might be in the body - might have been sifted from the ashes.
    But have in mind that the cement and stones usually have small cracks because of the heatdifferences from startup and shutdown.
    A lot of metals goes through those cracks and can sometimes be found under the furnace bottom, and are only revealed during restoring the furnace.

    I don't believe that there might have been a "graverobber" at work, those small amounts of metals can be absorbed by the ashes.

    I don't believe though, that gold"nuggets" like that - would be what I'd be worrying about at a time like that.
    So I don't know why it came up in the first place - but that's just my 5cents, as Marine Engineer and repairman of our own wasteburner.

    Regards
    Peter E Jeppesen
    Greenland.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Find out what the temperature is in the typical crematory oven and find out the melting point of gold and I think you'll have your answer. Gold is very soft metal and has a low melting point. Temperatures used to cremate a body are fairly high. I would not be worrying about theft, if that is your concern.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    They had this room next to the
    crematorium,with metal shelving,
    completely covered with steel plates,
    bolts etc.I have no idea what they
    did with that stuff.

    But I dit go on one of those Alligator
    Ally ash runs.We dumped 2 boxes that
    time,the owner`s son had a 16 guage pump,
    gave a "five gun salute",he called it.

    Don`t anybody kid yourself,they aren`t gunna
    keep all these ashes seperate.And as far as legality goes....they are only ashes.

    .218
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    offeror:

    Gold is hard and melts at nearly 2000 degree F.

    Flesh and bone will char to ash at much less that this. You'd know if you tried one of my wife's roasts.

    Clouder..
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Clouder:

    That happens all the time
    over here at:
    ~Two Eighteen Beekeeper Place~

    I constantly have to tell her
    that cooking is an art,you don`t
    just turn it on ,an then go gab
    on the phone with yer mama till
    the smoke detecters come on.


    .218
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    clouder --
    I'm just guessing from dim memories, but I had thought that the crematoria generated in the neighborhood of 1500-2000 degrees. In any case, I think you'd really have to be "in the business" to know the ins and outs of this, and I don't think I'm willing (or motivated) to go there.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    offeror:

    I'm with you. I do know they feed pure oxygen into the furnace. Wait a few years and I'll let you know, in a nightmare.

    Clouder..


    218:

    I was just kiddin'. The wife can cook like a five star chef but for sure it wasn't always that way.

    Clouder..
  • 101AIRBORNE101AIRBORNE Member Posts: 1,252 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okay,
    The body is placed in a container, usually cardboard.
    The furnace runs for four hours at 800 degrees F. The body
    is cremated solely. At 800 degrees F the heat does not reduce
    bone and teeth to ashes. After the four hour period the furnace is
    allowed to cool. The ashes are swept out along with bones, teeth,
    artificial joints, etc. The bones and teeth are run through a crusher
    and placed with the ashes in a container for the family. Artifical
    joints are usually tossed. This is from recent personal experience that I had to perform.Gold melts at about 2,100 degrees F.
    Enough!
  • HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    To be approved of burning medical waste, test animals, organic remains - the secondary burner at our hospital must run at 1000-1100degrees C (1832-2012deg.fahrenheit.)
    The primary chamber usually runs at 800-1000 degrees celcius (1472-1832 degrees fahrenheit)

    It reduces everything, including bone into ash. Nothing organic is identifyable. This is because a preheated airflow in introduced in the bottom of the furnace, making the actual temperature in the burning material as high as 1500 degrees celcius (2732 degrees fahrenheit).
    Glass, melted metals, surgical tools are like burnt and twisted metal alloys when they come out and can be identified sometimes.

    Gold melts at 1063degrees celcius, which is 1945,4 degrees fahrenheit.
    However, it softens down around 350degrees



    I pulled some info on crematoriums :
    1) Although there are several manufacturers of cremation units, the optimum temperature range is 1600 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit.

    2) One body at a time, carefully parted from eachoder. No mixup between several bodies may take place.
    One cremation = one warmup of the oven, one burn and one cool-down.

    3)The casket or container is placed in the cremation chamber, where the temperature is raised to approximately 1600 degrees to 1800 degrees Fahrenheit. After approximately, 2 to 2 1/2 hours, all organic matter is consumed by heat or evaporation. The residue which is left is bone fragments, known as cremated remains. The cremated remains are then carefully removed from the cremation chamber. Any metal is removed with a magnet and later disposed of in cemetery grounds. The cremated remains are then processed into fine particles and are placed in the container provided by the crematorium or placed in an urn purchased by the family. The entire process takes approximately three hours. Throughout the cremation process, a carefully controlled labelling system ensures correct identification.

    Following european guidelines, a cremation is usually around the same 1600-1800 Deg fahrenheit in the primary chamber. And with an 1100 degrees celdius/2012 degrees fahrenheit on the secondary burner - burning the rest of the gasses from the primary chamber, making it a complete burn.
    It can be wiewed as two parts, primary chamber handles the body, secondary "chamber" (which is actually a burner in the gas-flow from the primary chamber) burns and heats up the gasses from the primary chamber, allowing the unburnt combustible gasses to totally burn.
    This was pulled from the hospital where I work. Those are the guidelines that we follow.

    Regards
    Peter E Jeppesen
    Greenland.
  • tccoxtccox Member Posts: 7,379 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it were me, I would just pop those suckers out (gold crowns & bridges) before I ran the guy into the furnace. What would be wrong with that?
    I believe a profitable gold mine nowadays an process a cubic yard of rock for one ounce of gold. Tom

    Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who dont.
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Airborne,

    Please tell us about how you were
    able to land this sweet gig!

    .218
  • 101AIRBORNE101AIRBORNE Member Posts: 1,252 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bee,
    It was not a "sweet gig". It was my mother.
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've personally performed hundreds of cremations, as I worked from 1975 to 1977 at a cemetery.
    With a steel casket, the ends are chiseled open, and with a wooden casket or cardboard box, it is placed in "as is".
    There are no ashes, They go up the chimney.
    The remains are bone fragments and melted metal, yes, gold, too, which is very recognizable, The reason that I did so many cremations is that the boss trusted me to put the melted gold into the urn with the rest. The bone fragments were crushed by hand with a mortar and pestle before depositing them into the urn, The hip joints and steel plates went onto a shelf next to the oven. For all I know, they may still be there. The steel caskets were, after the "ashes" were removed, crushed with the backhoe and sold for scrap metal by the cemetery. Wooden or cardboard container cremations still contained the melted lumps of gold, since there was 1/2 inch steel plate lining the oven. If there was no gold, it was stolen. Period.
    At least in Wiconsin, it's the law.
    I have no idea what the temperature was, but we used a very large propane torch, the "muzzle" I'd guess eight inches around. Elapsed time was about four hours. I'm sure that things have gotten more modern in some places, but the place where I worked still does most of the cremations in a five-county area, and they do it the same way. NO REMAINS ARE EVER mixed. I did go talk with the boys, one of whom is still there from when I worked there, before my father was taken there. Most people are not the ghouls that some urban legends would make them out to be. For the most part, most of the boys did their utmost to treat the earthly remains with respect.
    We'd stay as late as was necessary to finish everything that had to be done. If any problems arose, the funeral director was called and showed up promptly and took care of it, which only happened twice, and I'll leave those problems alone for the sake of respect.
    Everyone who worked there was aware of the moral obligation put upon them, and were discharged immediately if they acted otherwise.
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Sorry Airborne,I feel terrible now>

    But you could`t expect me to know that,
    after the post you made.

    I`m still wondering why you"had to perform" this.

    .218
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