Ammo safe in safe?

ironsites

I have a gun safe which is tested at 1,200 degrees for 30 minutes, not allowing the inside temperature to get above 350 degrees at the upper section. My question is this- I store my ammo in this safe (at the bottom to 1/3 up) and wonder at what temperature would the ammo begin to blow up. Most are stored in ammo boxes which is in itself a contained area. More than 5000 rounds going off would make a mess no? What would be the answere?To get a seperate safe to at least protect the guns? Would the safe contain the exsplosions?

badboybob

Ammo cooking off just goes "pop". The bullets might go a few feet but there's little danger from the stuff. I once put some .45 rounds that I messed up in a burn pile, then ran like hell. It was like Rice Krispies.

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So many guns to buy. So little money.

ED P

I just went through this thought process, got a real nice gun safe like yours that will keep it at around 350 for 90 minutes, but decided to spend an extra $129 at Walmart for a Sentry Firesafe, where I keep around 2K rounds separate.Even if the bullets don't have any velocity, all that ammo cooking off will heat up the inside of your safe like thousands of firecrackers going off.Thousands of rounds will most likely super heat the inside of your safe, not to mention all the gases and soot getting saturated into your firearm collection.Ammo is cheap and replaceable compared to guns.[This message has been edited by ED P (edited 10-19-2001).]

rsnyder55

When ammo goes off without a supporting chamber, the bullet won't go far, but the casing being much lighter will go farther and faster. M1V1+M2V2=0 If you have an explosion (or explosions) in a closed and sealed container, such as a safe, I doubt if the pressure will blow the safe, but it may warp the frame and jam the door depending on how many rounds are in the safe and how many go off.I know laws in CA require containers storing powder not be sealed to allow the gases to vent and prevent an explosion. I imagine rounds going off in a safe may be similar.I've store rounds in the bottom of my Browning safe for years (to add weight) and I leave the bolt hole in the top open just in case.I would imagine that any heat hot enough to set off ammunition would probably ruin most of the wood on any firearms. The casings trying to fly around would probably cause more damage.

Iconoclast

NRA did a study many years ago & demonstrated, Hollywood not withstanding, that ammo which is 'cooking off' poses virtually no danger. I've forgotten the tybe of enclosure they used, but it wouldn't have stopped anything more than a BB. However, and I believe it is germane to this question, they also did a study of the alleged 'Secondary Explosion Effect' or 'Detonation' that was reported when very light loads of smokeless powder were ignited in voluminous cases. While they discovered it is not always a repeatable result, it does sometimes occur. The theories are (a) the gases created by smokeless powder can themselves ignite or (b) the powder granules may be fragmented, creating more surface area & far faster burning rate. In either case, there would be a sharper & higher pressure peak resulting in chamber failures. "A" was, as I recall, deemed more likely than "B." My concern would be that *possibly* the gases released by the ammo popping inside a large airtight container might theoretically scale up the SEE. In both the anecdotal and NRA studies, the containers were not airtight. As Ed P noted, ammo is relatively inexpensive. Why take the chance?

in2b8u

I just had this conversation w/ my neighbor. He and I recently got a safe. I was at his house the other day, and all of his ammo was in the safe w/ his firearms. We had a bit of terse discussion about keeping the ammo w/ or w/o the guns. It was mho that the ammo should be kept seperate. I keep all of my ammo in those plastic coolers that the lid compresses around the edge of the cooler. (no chance of a static discharge, I keep reloading supplies there also.) To each their own, but I thought that the idea of keeping the guns in a safe, was to keep them as far out of harms way as possible.

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If guns cause crime, all mine are defective.

Andrew Adams

Let me tell you my experience with ammo cooking off. My hunting camp has an old wood stove as its only means of heat. One time, during deer season, my 7 year old cousin, for some unbenknownst reason grabbed a 30-06 shell and tossed it in the stove before anyone could grab him. Needless to say, those of us who were in the camp got outside pretty quickly, and hung out in the cold for an hour or so. Finally, we figured that it would have gone off by then, so we ventured back inside. Nothing more happened. However, when we emptied the ash box, we found both the brass and the gelding of the bullet, but there was neither a dent nor a mark in the fire bricking of the stove. This tells me that even a rather powerful cartridge like a 30-06 really doesn't cook off with much force.

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When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets

ironsites

Thanks for info. I think I'll get a seperate safe for the ammo. I still would like to know at what temperature the rounds would blow at if anyone knows. "Have a goodin"

Smoky14

Just a note about safes and guns. My house burnt to the ground. My safe was not fire proof but was located in a closet. The damage to the contents was caused by the acrid smoke not by the fire. The steam caused by the fire dept. was even more damaging. The plastic and other stuff you have in your average house create a gas that kills even stainless steel. I had a chrome plated 45 that was eaten up. The ammo I had stored in the safe did NOT cook off but the cases were so corroded that they had to be thrown out. By the way; the insurance company did not cover the guns. The limit was like 500 unless specifically covered. Check you policy.

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Respect for self Respect for others Responsible for all actions

concealedG36

PVC (Poly Vinyl Chloride) is used throughout the home, in appliances like your computer and keyboard, etc. At 572 degrees F, total decomposition of PVC occurs. This results in the release of Hydrochloric Acid as an acrid smoke. It takes only two pounds of PVC to release enough acrid gas to contaminate over 200,000 cubic feet of building air space. Not only that, but a typical house fire reaches temperatures in excess of 2000 degrees F. Moreover, the concrete deck on a floor above a 16' x 8' room would release between 58 and 230 gallons of water during such a fire. This water would be pouring from the ceiling onto your guns/safe. (Of course, this only applies if you're living in an apartment with poured concrete floors. But, remember, all concrete will release water when heated to a very high temperature)So, safes are great. They help prevent theft and unauthorized access to your firearms. They might also help in the event of a fire that was quickly doused. But, don't think it means 100% safety for your valuables...

semiwad

Just an addition to what has already been said ..key word to me is "CONFINEMENT" ........ the round in the gun goes off as ot does for that reason. In a safe, I'd think that the total gas volume produced from many 100's of rounds cooking off might still be quite some force to contain!!!Never tested of course!!!!

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"Never mind the dog - beware the owner""Growing old is mandatory, growing wise is optional"

ironsites

My brother-in-law is a retired fire chief in Alabama and will confirm that the damage they do to a house to make sure a fire is completely out can be worse than the fire itself. My safe is in a metal building with sheetrock walls and very little wood inside.If the safe seals work properly-aren't they supposed to seal up during heat to prevent further damage? I'm checking my insurance policey for cost replacement!