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Idiots who require FFL to sell B P Revolvers

bprevolverbprevolver Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
I guess I need to clarify my original post. I refer to replica black powder percussion revolvers, not the firearms in the gray area that BATF can't make their mind up about. As previously stated there are no federal laws that even consider a replica BP revolver as a gun. No postal regulations on shipping them by mail. If New Jersey has some such law it is totally irrevalent to me as a resident of Colorado. If I ship a BP revolver to someone in NJ then it must be that person breaking a state law by receiving it. I do not have to pay any attention to NJ laws any more than I abide by NJ traffic laws while living and driving in Colorado. I ship BP revolvers overseas on a regular basis and have no idea what the laws are in these countries (couldn't care less). I sell and ship according to the instructions of the buyer. It is up to him to abide by his local laws if he so chooses.

You are correct Mr Mike, I don't have to deal with pseudo informed persons who choose to make their own rules at the inconvience of their customers. One thing we do not lack in this country are individual gun traders and dealers who still believe in a satisfied customer rather than those make believe, self proclaimed bureaucrats, who think they can control others by their own useless rules. Hopefully, their know it all attitute will soon put them out of business.

Comments

  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    quote:
    As previously stated there are no federal laws that even consider a replica BP revolver as a gun.

    You still need a pistol permit to buy them though, dont you?
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Pistol Permit" is a state thing, and BP is refering to federal rules, and is totally correct.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Can anyone give me a link to relevant data or a definitive answer on whether New York state requires a pistol permit for purchase of BP handguns?

    I may have just found myself a new obsession.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If I remember correctly, I believe you do in NY. It's been awhile since I had to worry about NY's gun laws.
  • bprevolverbprevolver Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    As previously stated there are no federal laws that even consider a replica BP revolver as a gun.

    You still need a pistol permit to buy them though, dont you?


    [/quote Maybe in New Jersey. Not any other state that I am aware of but I do not know about pistol permits since I have never had one because everywhere I have lived there was not any such thing.
  • bprevolverbprevolver Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Clarify that you speak for New Jersey not Colorado, Texas, Ok, GA, etc, etc. Personally I have never bought anything out of NJ so it is irrevelent to discuss NJ laws for the rest of the country. I do not recall ever suggesting that you violate any law for you state. I am merely pointing out that recently I have run into some sellers in other states thinking they have to ship to an FFL which I know is false information. I will challenge false information every time I encounter it. That is what freedom is about.


    you just dont get it. i would love to stock and sell reproduction black powder pistols, and to be able to sell them without the buyer having to obtain a firearms id card and a police dept. issued pistol permit. i would love to send them to out of state buyers directly and not to an ffl holder. i would love to be able to do the same with curio and relic firearms or airguns. the profit most shops make on these guns if they buy bulk is enormous. people would come from across the tri state area, and order from across the nation. i would make tons of money...


    the problem is i cannot do this because ITS AGAINST THE LAW. your raging against the machine and implying that we should break the law to accomadate you and your beliefs makes you a FOOL. taking the next step makes you a CRIMINAL. I AM NOT A NAZI TO BE VILIFIED BECAUSE I OBAY THE LAW. it does not make me a fool, or antigun, or mean i do not support the second amendment. it simply means that until the laws are changed or the elected officials who are proponants of these laws are voted out i must obay the laws on the books OR GO TO JAIL. i will loose a customer like you if it means staying out of jail and keeping my guns. you will get nowhere pushing a door marked pull. you seem to believe that someone who states and opinion contrary to yours or who is not willing to break the law is a fool. you started you post by calling people fools, suggesting the were idiots, anti gun, and perhaps unpatriotic. you sir are the fool. do not enter into a verbal argument if you are going to fly off the handle eveytime your feelings are hurt or someone does not agree with you. these are the actions of a spoiled uneducated child.be prepared to be pushed back when you strike out at someone. i tried to explain the situation in new jersey so that you might see why a dealer or seller would not ship to any non ffl holder. you just do not get it.

    What other dungeon is so dark as ones own heart, what jailer so inexorable as ones own mind.
  • EOD GuyEOD Guy Member Posts: 931
    edited November -1
    quote: i would love to send them to out of state buyers directly and not to an ffl holder. i would love to be able to do the same with curio and relic firearms or airguns.

    What law are you talking about? Is it a law in your state? It certantly isn't a Federal law or regulation.
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,443 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been following this one for a few days and as a firearms dealer I'd like to chime in. What goes on in Colorado has nothing at all to do with what happens in New Jersey when the black powerder pistol arrives. If the NJ state legislature wants to make these "non guns" into real guns they are free to do so and federal law does not supercide state laws which are more stringent.

    BP, your problem is a little thing called the Interstate Commerce Clause and has been used to regulate (and restrict) everything crossing state lines from women (the MANN ACT), drugs (the HARRISON
    NARCOTICS ACT) and firearms (the GUN CONTROL ACT of 1968), plus a host of other laws and acts. Of course you don't have to obey NJ traffic rules in Colorado...but if you drive your Colorado registered
    vehicle in NJ you entered their state and WILL be obeying their traffic laws. Moving your vehicle across the country means obeying the traffic laws of each state...whether YOU are driving your vehicle or have entrusted a person or agency to move it for you.

    The reason that you can ship black powder pistol all over the world and the BATF does nothing to stop you or requiers you to have an FFL is because the BATF has NOTHING to do with firearms exports. These are handled by the State Department or Commerce Department (for some types of shotguns). Black powder arms are not considered firearms by these agencies, at least as export items.

    You are of course free to complain as much as you wish that certain state laws are standing between you and huge profits and depending on the number of guns you ship you may never have a problem. I can however assure you that if you continue to ship these BP revolvers into areas where they are restricted the state agencies involved will at some point contact the Colorado Attorney General and attempt to file some type of complaint against you. This same type of thing used to happen with wholesalers who shipped large amounts of fireworks from states where they were perfectly legal, into areas where they were banned.

    As an interesting aside, what you are attempting to do with your BP pistols is exactly what was happening forty years ago with firearms. Dealers or individuals would be happy to ship handguns into areas, like New York City, where they were heavily restricted. These dealers could have cared less about NY laws. The problem was that PLENTY of NY politicos DID CARE about all of these pistols illegaly entering the city. They were at the fore front of getting the Gun Control Act moving. The result: FFL's for receiving firearms and an end of "mail order sales". once again the Commerce Clause was used.
    I'd suggest that you only sell or ship your BP pistols into those areas where they are un restricted.

    Mark T. Christian
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    True. But what these local D. As. would have to do is injunct him from sending the BP pistols to their area. Again he is violating no ATF regulation, no Colorado laws. They will have to make the first move, and cannot charge him with a local law.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • bprevolverbprevolver Member Posts: 153 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    More clarification on FFL and black powder revolvers. Some responders to this topic have carried this to a state level. My concern is over idiots who make their own rules about shipping BP revolvers only to FFL in places where these are not required. Like from California to Colorado, or Texas to Colorado, where no such laws exist. This discussion seems to have focused on NJ. I don't know or care what the laws in NJ are concerning private sales between individuals. The number of sales or purchases in and out of NJ is so insignificant that it makes little difference in the overall picture.

    I still think that private individuals or dealers who require more than what the law requires to ship a BP revolver are idiots who follow the spirit of the gun grabbers for no reason.
  • Warpig883Warpig883 Member Posts: 6,459
    edited November -1
    It must be a state thing that mrmike is talking about. I can call Cabela's on the phone and buy a black pwder revolver and have it shipped to my house. All within the law and no background checks.

    moc.murofsmraerifeht
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