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Mixing my lead for bullet casting, and resizing ??
robsguns
Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
Ok, another boring day has gone by, spent the whole day waiting for it to rain, it didnt. But, I finally decided it wouldnt rain, so I went outside and worked on my lead mix. I started out with 14lbs. of wheel weights that I already had melted down, and mixed it with 7lbs. of foundry type, that I bought from a nice guy off of ebay. I couldnt be exactly sure of the tin/antimony/lead ratio of the stuff I bought from him, but figured a 2:1 ratio of w/w to foundry type might work. Well, it didnt. I cast a few bullets with my new NEI bullet mold, finally got it, and it works beautful by the way, best bullets I've ever made, and its for my .454 Casull. I took one of them and put it on the concrete and started hitting it with my hammer, it didnt take any guff from the hammer, hard as heck, but it finally began fragmenting before it really began to flatten or mushroom. So that obviously was too hard a bullet, only good for giant rodents. So I increased the ratio to 3:1. Now I got the hammer out again. It took a lot of beating but I got it completely flattened out to a pancake shape, nice and thin like a coin. Not a bit of fragmenting. It took more effort than the bullet I purchased from Cast Performance Bullet Co. and its suppose to be a hard bullet, around 22BHN I believe. The only down side to my mix is that I have a 335 gr. mold, and its casting a 315 gr. bullet, not a big deal to me, thats more than enough to kill anything I'll use it for. So you see, my hammer is my hardness tester. Anyone have a real one, and want to test my bullets for me? I'm too cheap to buy one, and the hammer is all I've got for now. I never really needed one before, I didnt care about pushing big bullets fast. Thats changed. Lessons learned today include: I need a bullet hardness tester, a 3:1 ration should work very well-have to see, and NEI makes an extremely nice mold. Only one question. My bullets need to be tapped gently through the cylinder on my Ruger, they are that tight a fit. They only are snug at the barrel end of the cylinder. It wont affect loading or extraction, I THINK, havent tryed to load any finished rounds yet. Do any of you think that is a problem, should I size them down .001", or leave them as they are? The only thing I have a concern with is chamber pressure in the cylinder when fired. I've heard that they should be a little snug for best accuracy. Input is appreciated on this question.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Comments
Like I said, sounds like life is good. Make up some starting loads, take 'em to the range, and go from there.
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
I use a soft ball of lead a little larger than the bore and tap it it through from the muzzle. Use a wooden dowel to drive the lead all the way. You have just slugged your barrel. Now measure the widest part and this would probably be a good starting point.
Oh and btw when you melt your lead make sure you put the tin back in by dropping a touch of bullet lube in.
What do you use to size your bullets?
Thieves in 3 piece suits = Politicians,Doctors & Lawyers
When shooting revolvers with cast bullets, I have been advised that it is the cylinder and its chambers which you slug, not the barrel, makes sense when you think about it. The cylinders need to support the bullet, so that its already centered, for best accuracy. The barrel should never be larger, it should be tighter than the cylinders, so the practice of slugging or measuring the cylinders should work well. I've just never actually fired lead cast bullets from any of my revolvers, not with this kind of precision anyway.
I size with Lee sizing dies when needed. This NEI die casts exactly the dimension I requested, so its not needed, provided I dont encounter any problems. Actually, not exactly, but thats a lead mix thing. I have .456 on the middle driving band, and .454 on the base. When tapped through the cylinder the .456 changes to .455, I dont think that is going to be a problem, we will see today.
Chris,
You're not the first one to tell me that. I seem to have such a hard time convincing people that BHN stands for Ballpeen Hammer Number, I dont understand some people.
250,
Thanks for the encouragement, makes me feel better that someone else thinks I MAY be doing this correctly.
Shootist,
How do you go about finding an article that old?
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
While not elegant, I suspect your 'hammer test' works as well as anything; I've not been terribly impressed with my SAECO tester.
Some suggestions: (1) before you use the 3:1 for hunting, try a few rounds in some sort of media (telephone books if nothing else); it may give you a little more data to correlate to the BPH scale. I could well be wrong (only fifth time today), but to me, still sounds as though the mix is on the hard side. (2) If you are not familiar with the fluxing, read up on it do it religiously. It is key to maintaining an even mix in the base material and the bullets, which affects both weight and dimensions. (3) I've always followed the older 'common wisdom' of sizing my bullets .001 - .002" over nominal bore & it has worked well for me. It may not be the way to go w/ the Casull, though. What I do strongly advise is that you use the .456" die. You need to lube the bullets anyway (presuming the Lee system does both at once as the Lyman does?); passing them through the size gives you a quick visual check on dimensions - not precise to four decimals, but an invaluable tool in culling those which are significantly different than average w/o resorting to the PITA process of measuring each by hand across multiple bands.
Fianlly, and I may be all wet, your statement that the base has a smaller diameter than the other bands concerns me. The base has more influence on the performance of cast bullets than any other portion of the projectile. If it were my mould, I'd much prefer the base to be the area measuring .456 as cast.
Of course the usual cautions about starting low & working up, analyzing results, etc. are a given.
Thieves in 3 piece suits = Politicians,Doctors & Lawyers
In regards to your post:
Some suggestions: (1) before you use the 3:1 for hunting, try a few rounds in some sort of media (telephone books if nothing else); it may give you a little more data to correlate to the BPH scale.
I definitely will, planning on it tomorrow.
I could well be wrong (only fifth time today), but to me, still sounds as though the mix is on the hard side.
Dont know about the hardness, but I'm going to find out on the media.
(2) If you are not familiar with the fluxing, read up on it do it religiously. It is key to maintaining an even mix in the base material and the bullets, which affects both weight and dimensions.
I always keep it fluxed well, I've been able to maintain consistent results through out my casting experiences.
(3) I've always followed the older 'common wisdom' of sizing my bullets .001 - .002" over nominal bore & it has worked well for me. It may not be the way to go w/ the Casull, though. What I do strongly advise is that you use the .456" die. You need to lube the bullets anyway (presuming the Lee system does both at once as the Lyman does?);
I've had some experiences with sizing and done some experimentation. I dont label anyone who sizes as being overly cautious for good results, however, it hasnt made any appreciable differences in accuracy with any of my guns or bullets. I've had bullets ranging from .306-.309" cast for my 30-30, and each shot to the same point of impact, with tolerable differences in velocity. This was with softer bullets, wheelweights, but at faster velocities, so I dont really think that for me sizing is ever going to be of real importance anymore, not just to ensure precision sizing. If it was a case of having to bring it down in dimensions, I would, but otherwise I dont do it anymore. If I was making some for friends, I would, but for me, nah. Lee sizing dies dont lube at the same time, which is ok, cause I prefer using the lee liquid alox lube, its really slick. I've played around with moly coating lead bullets and coating them with this stuff, and its incredible. I just like to experiment. DONT coat your lead bullets in a tumbler if size is important to you, it takes a little off the dimension, but it didnt affect my accuracy a bit, no leading with this method of lubing either, one slick bullet.
passing them through the size gives you a quick visual check on dimensions - not precise to four decimals, but an invaluable tool in culling those which are significantly different than average w/o resorting to the PITA process of measuring each by hand across multiple bands.
I didnt worry about checking the dimensions in the past either, as I'm really picky about weighing each bullet. They dont make it into my loads unless they are within my weight standards, which is plus or minus .2 grains, which is pretty tough standards. I throw a lot back in the pot, that pretty much guarantees my bullets are consistent in size, if they wernt it would show up on the scale.
Fianlly, and I may be all wet, your statement that the base has a smaller diameter than the other bands concerns me. The base has more influence on the performance of cast bullets than any other portion of the projectile. If it were my mould, I'd much prefer the base to be the area measuring .456 as cast.
You are definitely right on this one. I was thinking the same thing. The only thing that keeps me from being bothered about the base is that when I tap the bullet out of the cylinder, it has been sized to .455 from top to base, so when it enters the barrel's forcing cone everything will be equal. I made a typo on the dimension of .454 on the base in my earlier post, and did not catch it. Its .455, sorry. I'm of the opinion that this base, since I was just experimenting yesterday, will fill out properly to the same dimension as the middle driving band when I run the temp. of the pot up a little more, and pour more consistently, with a better sprue fill. I havent cast in a while and yesterday I was rusty.
I want to thank you for all your excellent advice and points. If I hadnt already been doing this for a little while I'd be doing everything you have recommended. You ARE completely correct on what you have stated, I just have adopted a different philosophy on a couple of methods to casting, thank you, please feel free to add any comments to my process, I like criticism, good and bad, it makes me better off for it.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Edited by - robsguns on 05/26/2002 14:31:20
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
Well....I got into my groove this afternoon. My bullets are running between .456 and .458 on that middle band, and right about .455 on that base. This is not a good thing. I'm going to get a resizing die on order and see if I'll be able to resize from the max. diameter down to .454. I slugged the barrel today just for giggles, and its smaller than the chambers, no problem. You may be right about the hardness, but I still have to see. If I can resize the amount I need to I should be ok. If not, I got an expensive mold with no use for it, ouch! A resizing die in .454 will bring it down to exactly what the chambers will handle without having to tap it too hard, I hope I can resize these ok, the lead may be too hard, if so, I'll add a little more wheel weight, and see if it will still be hard enough, but not so hard that I cant resize. If I cant resize it without having to make the bullets too soft, well, we'll see what happens.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
I've always considered wheelweight to be pretty much a crapshoot in terms of alloy. It can have all sorts of contaminants in it because there's no standard for it; mostly it's scrap which is being recycled into pieces with pretty wide weight tolerances . . . who cares / knows if the piece on the rim varies by some % from it's nominal value? I have melted a lot of it & shot a lot of it, but never when I wanted to work with precision - in that case I'll use linotype cut with pure lead. But for cheap shooting, why not?
Keep us posted. It may take some experimentation, but odds are excellent you'll have some good use from that mould.
look for pure lead ...
alloy ??? use tin-zinc based for soften-harden mixes
Use right mold with proper cut seal-lubricant desing.
Watch melt temperature as if overheat your bullet will weight less
at cool down and will be "chicken-butted" at the end .
JD
Good...? , Bad...? Who cares ? as long I am the one with the the gun.....
...from my cold dead fingers!!
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC