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FBI considers torture as suspects stay silent

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
FBI considers torture as suspects stay silent FROM DAMIAN WHITWORTH IN WASHINGTON AMERICAN investigators are considering resorting to harsher interrogation techniques, including torture, after facing a wall of silence from jailed suspected members of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, according to a report yesterday. More than 150 people who were picked up after September 11 remain in custody, with four men the focus of particularly intense scrutiny. But investigators have found the usual methods have failed to persuade any of them to talk. Options being weighed include "truth" drugs, pressure tactics and extraditing the suspects to countries whose security services are more used to employing a heavy-handed approach during interrogations. "We're into this thing for 35 days and nobody is talking. Frustration has begun to appear," a senior FBI official told The Washington Post. Under US law, evidence extracted using physical pressure or torture is inadmissible in court and interrogators could also face criminal charges for employing such methods. However, investigators suggested that the time might soon come when a truth serum, such as sodium pentothal, would be deemed an acceptable tool for interrogators. The public pressure for results in the war on terrorism might also persuade the FBI to encourage the countries of suspects to seek their extradition, in the knowledge that they could be given a much rougher reception in jails back home. One of the four key suspects is Zacarias Moussaoui, a French Moroccan, suspected of being a twentieth hijacker who failed to make it on board the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. Moussaoui was detained after he acted suspiciously at a Minnesota flying school, requesting lessons in how to steer a plane but not how to take off or land. Both Morocco and France are regarded as having harsher interrogation methods than the United States. The investigators have been disappointed that the usual incentives to break suspects, such as promises of shorter sentences, money, jobs and new lives in the witness protection programme, have failed to break the silence. "We are known for humanitarian treatment, so basically we are stuck. Usually there is some incentive, some angle to play, what you can do for them. But it could get to that spot where we could go to pressure . . . where we don't have a choice, and we are probably getting there," an FBI agent involved in the investigation told the paper. The other key suspects being held in New York are Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, Indians who were caught the day after the attacks travelling with false passports, craft knives such as those used in the hijackings and hair dye. Nabil Almarabh, a Boston taxi driver alleged to have links to al-Qaeda, is also being held. Some legal experts believe that the US Supreme Court, which has a conservative tilt, might be prepared to support curtailing the civil liberties of prisoners in terrorism cases. However, a warning that torture should be avoided came from Robert Blitzer, a former head of the FBI's counter-terrorism section. He said that the practice "goes against every grain in my body. Chances are you are going to get the wrong person and risk damage or killing them." In all, about 800 people have been rounded up since the attacks, most of whom are expected to be found to be innocent. Investigators believe there could be hundreds of people linked to al-Qaeda living in the US, and the Bush Administration has issued a warning that more attacks are probably being planned. Newsweek magazine reports today that Mohammed Atta, the suspected ringleader who died in the first plane to hit the World Trade Centre, had been looking into hitting an aircraft carrier. Investigators retracing his movements found that he visited the huge US Navy base at Norfolk, Virginia, in February and April this year. http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2001350021-2001364909,00.html
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Comments

  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,078 ******
    edited November -1
    I wasn't there myself, but some Viet Nam vets have told me of one method of interrogation that worked.You have to have two or more prisoners to interrogate. You have to have a helicopter.Flying along at a thousand feet or so, you begin asking questions. The prisoners don't answer. Grab one and fling him out the side door. Usually whoever is left gets real talkative.A more humane method involved the same tactic, but blindfolding the prisoners so that they cannot tell that your chopper is now only a few feet off the ground.Black Jack Pershing ordered the execution by firing squad of Muslims. The Muslims were made to watch as the soldiers slaughtered hogs and dipped their bullets in the blood and fat. The Muslims that watched these executions became cooperative.These tactics would probably still work, but they will never be used in our kinder, gentler world.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whatever it takes is what force should be used. We need answers, not more money, food, shelter,etc.... wasted.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Israelis owe the US big time and should be given an opportunity to break these suspects but not on US soil.
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hear this: whatever tactics are used against these scum today can be used against you tomorrow. We are a nation of law where human rights are sacrosanct. Before you advocate extreme measures against suspects always remember you could be next.Nunn I flew helos in Viet Nam and heard the same stories. If someone had tried those actions in my aircraft he would have been the next one out the door.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.[This message has been edited by badboybob (edited 10-22-2001).]
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  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    The "usual tactics" such as offering money, shorter sentences, new lives in witness protection, etc...You gotta be kidding me.Cutting a deal with these vermin? Since the US Govt. is planning to completely wipe out any and all terrorists and their friends, why do we care if these captives talk or not? We oughtta just waste 'em.Or has our plan been modified?I heard some discussion yesterday on Fox News Sunday about how the war was being scaled-back for political reasons. I hope this is not true.Can you say Viet Nam?
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    All bets on humane treatment in accordance with the Geneva Convention are off when you're out of uniform and involved in terrorism against a civilian population.
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  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Usually the problem with torture is you can't trust the info you get. If the person is talking just to avoid the pain, what good does it do?
    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Badboybob hit the nail on the head.Be careful what you wish for."So Mr. Evil, who else do you know that owns outlawed firearms? Ah the strong silent type, eh? Dave, bring in the field generator!"
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  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wonder how we're feeding these guys; they need a good diet; that "low-carb" diet is all the rage these days.I'd suggest: sausage and bacon for breakfast, hot dogs for lunch (no bun, that's a no-no on the low-carb diet); pork roast for dinner....
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My wife has me on that "low-carb" diet. I suspect she's trying to put me into an early grave so that she can have my guns all to herself. I'm in white meat Hell.
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  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As much as I want to see these guys roast, I really can't say that we should torture "the truth" out of them. I think that we'd be doing exactly what they want by making these fools into martyrs, and it would be "giving in" to emotion when we need to hold tight to our fundamentals. Not to mention the fact that I don't think they've actually been tried and found guilty, they're being held on suspicion and immigration issues. I fully support executing them (by whatever means needed) if they are found guilty, but until then we'd be acting like the former KGB. Like some of the previous posts said, if you're not ready for the same thing yourself, don't wish it on others. I'd expect to be sentenced to death if I was convicted of participating in the WTC crash, but not because somebody simply suspected I was guilty.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Man, as soon as I saw that piece in the paper yesterday, I knew it was trouble. What was that Fibbie trying to prove? If he doesn't know the basic laws of this country (read 8th Amendment), whatinhell is he doing w/ that badge? We are a nation of laws, or at least we were in the past. If we stoop to torture, we are no better than those we condemn. We didn't torture Nazi spies nor the various war criminals - the Japs responsible for the Bataan Death March were no less monstrous than OBL & Co. And as other folks have pointed out, there are too many downsides. (1) We lose the moral high ground; (2) We invite identical treatment - granting that any American captured by these vermin is likely to be tortured anyway; (3) the information gained is of dubious value; (4) we make these vermin into martyrs for generations to come; (5) we lose support we desperately need to accomplish our goals, no matter that we would prefer to go it alone; (6) trashing our principles as a people and a nation. Not enough time & space to list all the negatives. Against what? *Maybe* getting some info which could well be obsolete because the enemy know these people are captured and will change plans accordingly? If these guys held the code to keep Armageddon at bay, maybe, but these are bit players. In all seriousness, either that Fibbie was a loose cannon or a deliberate agent provocateur. Given their training, which do you think? I say there's more here than the surface comment and we may well never know the reason for it.
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is a big difference between tortureto obtain a confession & interogation to obtain information. These people should not be considered civil criminals but enemysoldiers captured out of uniform & behind our lines. On this basis they have no protection from our civil laws or under the Geneva Convention.
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  • luger01luger01 Member Posts: 230 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Give the perps to me. I know what to do to make them squeal like the pigs they are. No, I take that back - pigs are noble animals in comparison.Really now, if a few of those a**wipes got away and into citizen hands, they'd be singing their last tunes.What this country needs is a good "Star Chamber"!
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  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i heartily agree with gruntled that these beings that choose not to abide by any basic standards of many different societies on this planet should by treated in this fashion to extract any and all info possible then put in a box and executed by the same means that they chose to disseminate on the innocent
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  • Krag96Krag96 Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are You kidding? there are drugs available now that will make sodium pentathol look like 7up, why torture when just A little pharmacuetical persuasion is all thats needed, this so called FBI story is obviously subterfuge or ignorance, the FBI is capable of both.
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  • Mom MomMom Mom Member Posts: 169 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Fundamentalist Islamic law prohibits the execution of virgins. In countries such as Irag, it is the practice that unmarried women convicted of capitol crimes such as subterfuge, treason etc., are married to soldiers (Islamic law does not require the womens consent for marriage.) After the marriage is consummated, often in front of witnesses (read rape) the bride is executed.Perhaps we could use this. Just marry the terroist to some of our finest; I'm sure Janet Reno, Hillary Clinton, Rosie O'Donnell and Jane Fonda would be happy to support their country by performing this one small patriotic duty. A few days with these gals (hey Muslims are allowed 4 wives at a time), and the terrorist will be willing to tell all in exchange for a divorce. Anyone who holds out through this gets threatened with Diane Feinstein and Gloria Steinham.
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nice!we train them ,they get the Russians forus , we betray them ,they declare us war,we train drug dealers to get them ,the drug dealers will get america young with drugs and it will not be called an act of terror but a "social problem" . People are no longer Hillbilly inliteratesthey read and remember WE MADE the TALIBANand TALIBAN fought the NORTHEN ALIANCE druglords ,terrorism might not get us all but"hyprocrites" will do ! today they may torture a terrorist an we might aplaud it inthe HEAT OF REVENGE but in the future it may be your sons you or your wife ,for not telling them were you HID your GUNS after your right to keep them goes to the trashwith the other HUMAN right you take away from todays " terrorist ". "This is Music to the Dictators Ears,want to play to the tune too??"
    I judge Thee!, Not for what you are , but for what you say !
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