In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

JUDGE DREAD, I have a question....

JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
edited December 2001 in General Discussion
first, your input in the judgement thread has me wondering if your name suggests your occupation. If this is true, then I would like to discuss a legal matter with you if you have a minute or two.If anyone else is experienced in the laws, I would appreciate any input. Just tell me yes or no and I will post my dillema.

Comments

  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You should probably go ahead and post it. We don't all know the law inside and out, but maybe one of us has been in your prediciment before and can offer advice.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK, me and the wife were on our way home at about 2:15 am the other week when a deer decided to jump out on us. There was a road which leads into my neighborhood at a 90 degree to my right. I swerved to avoid the deer thinking I could make the turn onto that road. I don't use it anymore because it has recently been tar and chipped which has caused damage to the paint on my 2001 suburban which prior to the mishap had 1963 miles on it. I could have made the turn except that a pile of loose gravel had been created at the intersection of that road and the main road I was on due to people braking for the stop sign. I got into the gravel and slid into a building head on. It was a business that was obviosly closed and no-one came out of any houses to see what was up. My wife was hysterical and would not answer me as to wether she was alright. I had no phone and saw no-one offering one at this time of night. Not 200yds out of the passenger window was MY HOUSE. I backed up and went to the house to see if she was OK. once I established she was, I called my friend and inquired what to do. He said not to worry, it was his stepmother's sister and her husband and we could go to his house tomorrow and give them my insurance info. He had seen the damage that morning and called the police to file a report. Upon me going to his house, he said I had done the right thing to come to him and he called the trooper to tell her we had it handled. He also told her he did not want it persued. She went to my house, took my story and then asked to speak to my wife. She got my wife in the car and tried to intimidate her into telling her that something else had happened. When she found that my wifes story matched mine, she basically accused me of lying and wrote me up for leaving the scene and 5 other rather harsh must appear type violations. I feel that by talking to the property owner and extending him my insurance info, before I even knew the police were involved showed that I was attempting to comply with the law. I wasn't trying to hide anything!!!! So she, in all of her maybe 2 years on the force decided to get her next promotion at my expence. I have to get a lawyer for the must appear tickets. Anybody have any suggestions as how to prove my innocence as well as any things you may have been through that were the same and the outcome???I am stressed to say the least, I have no points, but the building damage is already going to raise my insurance through the roof as well as my brand new truck at the body shop. How do I limit collateral damage and also any tactics which may help to obsolve me in court???Any help is appreciated.
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I think it is absolutely hilarious that people keep thinking Dread is a real judge.But I guess if you didnt know him, the idea that he was a a judge wouldnt be as funny.
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye,rest assured..he will be along shortly with something to say!!.218
  • ghotie_thumperghotie_thumper Member Posts: 1,561 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you can get the property owner to appear in court as a witness that will help your cause. If not, get a written statement from the owner of the property that was damaged and have the statement notorized so it will be admissable in court. You mention you were written up for 5 or 6 violations? Generally in an accident there is only one "primary collision factor", sometimes there will be an "associated factor" to the collision, but it is rarely added to the citation/ticket. In your case I would asssume that if you swerved to avoid a deer that the Primary collision factor would be an unsafe turning manuever. It is difficult to bring oneself to collide with any animal. Remember though that in a collision situation, an animal that "runs" out in front of you will always be at fault. Whereas if you see an animal standing in the road and strike it "you" will be considered at fault. So with this in mind HIT the deer/dog/cat/squirrel and if questioned Remember, "THE DARN THING RAN RIGHT OUT IN FRONT OF ME OFFICER, THERE WAS NO WAY I COULD AVOID IT".You should be able to avoid any charges of hit and run by getting the property owner to admit that you contacted them and gave them your insurance information. You knew this wouldn't be a problem because the accident happened just down the street. You were not aware that you needed to contact the police in the case of a non injury collision and after they contacted you, you cooperated fully. The bottom line is that this was an accident, "you didn't mean to do it". It was not an intentional event and if possible you would turn back time and undo it. You may have tried to take a turn too fast but that is the only thing you did wrong. It was your instincts to preserve the life of the innocent deer that caused you to react the way you did. You understand now that it was a mistake. You made an effort and contacted the property owner, you gave them your insurance information and will ensure that any problems you may have caused them will be taken care of. A citation for an infraction will not help the situation out in any way. You will be much more careful and would even be willing to attend a traffic safety school if available to prove your sincerity. My Humble Opinion, Good luck.
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Since your house was only 200 yards away, and having ascertained that your wife was OK, why didn't you call the cops and meet them at the scene? I think I would have done that. Then again, being in a couple of serious "fender-benders" myself, I realize that coherent thought is usually replaced by adrenaline. I think it's all in the hands, and discretion of the judge now. Just glad nobody was hurt!! Good luck!!
  • the loveable rat...the loveable rat... Member Posts: 969 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i know almost nothing about guns and less about the law, but it makes sense that you shouldn't say "the reason i crashed my truck is because i took my hands off the wheel to grab my rifle to shoot the deer standing in the road. also, it was my neighbor's deer and i hate him...and his house" also, i'd recommend consuming as much mind-altering substances as you can when you appear in Judge Dread's court room, to open up your "third eye" to the jurisprudence of his rulings...or something
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ghotie-thumper and timberbeast, I appreciate the info guys. This is a big pile of S**T i don't want to deal with but it already happened. Timberbeast, you are right on with the adrenaline thing, she wouldn't give me a coherent answer, just noises. I had to get her home and check it out. The reason I never called the police, is because my friend since high school, said it was family and we could go there tomorow. I didn't learn in drivers ed, as long ago as that was, that I had to call the police in an unattended property accident. I'm made out to be the badguy when I did everything I could to immediately fix the situation. Also, what would the cop have said......looks like it's your fault? I think that's obvious, the building didn't jump out in front of me. Anyway, thanks all, in advance for any info you may send my way.
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Hey JustC,It looks to me like you did what in normal person in a decent rural area would do.I`m thinkin this cop has not been a cop long,and does not understand anything but the book.Maybe she is from some urban area,and don`t understand the way you and your neigbors handle things.You are looking at it from the worse position..inside lookin out.Sorry that you had to be treated that way,but to us lookin at it from here it is obvious you have nothing to worry about.Relax,man..218
  • ghotie_thumperghotie_thumper Member Posts: 1,561 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of my earlier post was intended to point you towards a defense in testifying in front of a judge. You might also want to try to attempt to discredit the officers testimony. Usually the officer will testify first in a Court trial, in Kalifornia if charged with an infraction you will have opportunity to have a court trial where a Judge, no jury, hears your case. If charged with a misdemeanor you have the right to choose either a court trial or a trial by jury. If the officer finishes her testimony without first establishing her expertise in the subject (accident reconstruction), request the court dismiss the case on the grounds that the officer has not established her expertise in accident investigation/reconstruction. If it isn't dismissed she can still be discredited by lack of experience. How many hours of instruction has she received. Ask her how many accidents she has actually been required to document. Did she take pictures? Did she make a photo log and where was she trained in forensic photography. Did she establish a speed in this case? If so how did she determine your speed? Did she just take your statement or did she actually go out and measure skid marks? You may have been mistaken in your original statement of your speed estimate due to the tramatic nature of the incident. Ask her what is the coefficient of friction of the roadway surface where you had your accident. The average used by most officers is around 70% but it can be higher or lower depending on the surface. This can attribute to higher or lower quoted speeds. How did she measure your skid marks? Did she use a steel tape or a rolling wheel? The rolling wheels can be off by 10' in 100' (10%) and unless they are calibrated the officer can not be sure the wheel is accurate. Ask if the wheel has been calibrated and see if she can produce the actual instrument she used. An uphill or downhill grade can change speed figures as well and if she did not use this in her calculations it could be wrong as well. Is it common practice for the road department to leave piles of loose gravel on the road surface in intersections? Why was this not posted ie:loose gravel sign. Ask the officer if she was aware of the loose gravel in the area. Did she had taken any measures to notify the road department to remove the loose material? You may find you are dealing with a well trained professional accident investigator, then again you may find a * in her armor. If the judge is easy going he/she may see that you did all you could after the accident was over and you made it right with the property owner. As far as being punished ie: cited, for making a mistake, you should point out to the judge prior to finishing your testimony, that you will be punished by #1 you have been found at fault in an accident, this usually counts as a point against you on your driving record, #2 your insurance payment will most likely go up, #3 you will lose use of your vehicle while it is being repaired. All a citation does at this point is #1 cost you more money, #2 leave you feeling like a criminal when you did all you could to set things right, #3 puts another point on your driving record which in turn causes your insurance premium to go up again. Again good luck. [This message has been edited by ghotie_thumper (edited 12-15-2001).]
  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GHOTIE_THUMPER:I don't have a dog in this fight but I sure was taking notes from your posts! Thanks.
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    JustC,Looks like you've gotten great advice here already.(Your problem is what happens with female police officiers--get questioned by them at the "wrong time of the month" and you're in real trouble! I'll get slammed for that "smart" remark!)Seriously, you know what the officier is suspecting: That at the early AM hours, you were driving under the influence of alcohol, had the accident and "decided to wait till you were sober" before calling the troopers.When talking to the judge, you might want to recognize this probable suspiscion, by stating it explicitly, and having sworn affidavits from anyone who can testify to your sobriety before/at the time of the accident. If you left a party, specifically note, along with witness accounts, that you had drinks early, but stopped (hopefully around 4 hours before you left/drove) aware of the fact that you'd be driving. Same applies if you left a bar or restaurant--the main idea is that you need to establish that you were/are conciencious about your use of alcohol and driving, and that alcohol was not a factor the night of the accident.Your past excellent driving record should help to prove your case--and don't be afraid to use any other personal information about yourself, to demonstrate to the judge, that you are "an upstanding and honest person"--but don't "go overboard" on that point.Also, depending on how much in dollars is involved, don't be a "cheap-skate" and not use an attorney--a good attorney could help here; at the very least, he/she would be able to argue WITHOUT the excessive emotion you'd bring--your personal emotion will only work against you in a court room.Edit note: Also, see if the officier has had complaints made against her before--especially if she's had the tendency to "write people up for everything"--past complaints about her behavior could really help you here.Let us know how everything goes.[This message has been edited by competentone (edited 12-15-2001).]
  • TxsTxs Member Posts: 17,809 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    An important piece of info when asking for advice is the state in which this accident occurred. Laws vary greatly from state to state so be wary of taking broad legal advice from a board.You need to first determine if in your state this accident was legally required to be reported to law enforcement. For example, in Tx. any vehicle accident that results in at least $200.00 damage to any one persons property must be reported. Your state will also have a minimum dollar amount stated in their traffic code. Tx. law states that if the damage is less than this amount, upon striking a fixed object a driver has the duty to either contact the property owner and supply their contact/insurance information or just leave this info at the scene. If the damage is greater than this amount you are required to also notify law enforcement at the earliest possible time.It sounds as if you complied with your duty to notify the property owner, but in the troopers eyes you failed to file a report with law enforcement in a timely manner. Explain to the judge that you fully intended to report this accident because you were going to need a police report for insurance purposes, it was just a matter of timing. Also, point out that no harm was done due to this delay.It wouldn't have mattered if the trooper had been called to the scene that night and found that you had been drinking. There's nothing unlawful about being inebriated AFTER an accident. You could just say you were so shook up by your experience that you needed a drink afterwards-Kings X.
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks all, I apreciate all of your input and advice. .218beekeep, I am glad other people have that outlook. It would be different if they said I was screwed. Let me say for the record even though nobody knows me personaly yet, I was not drinking. All I can hope is the judge sees that I did what I felt to be right in a timely fashion. By the way, she is only about 23-25yrs old. I noticed her model 92 had a fine shiny coat and no seatbelt scratches. This tells me she is fairly new to the scene. Also, I have checked numerous times and I don't see any orange paint marks on the road. I am hoping this means she wasn't sharp enough to have it reconstructed and I can use that against her.
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Wow, Ghotie. I'm seriously impressed.What's your hourly rate? :-)
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Hey Bullzeye,you got that right!.218
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry for being late on this one ... I was 10-7 from one of thoose viruses running out there --- First ,check statutes concerning the time required to REPORT the accident plus the ammount of $$$ damage ,if you did not report it in the time frame required by law plus the report given to the insurance company does not match the one you gave to police you are up for troble , anyway if such report was made IN GOOD FAITH ,with NO INTENTION Of deceit ,REMEMBER "INTENT" is the "magic word" ! You were 200y from theplace of the accident,the first mistake was to leave the scene ,second mistake not to report it immediately ,but anyway the rest of the advice given by the boys is great ,I also advice in taking one of thoose seminars on using your car as a WEAPON ,the deer meatyou can get can pay for part of the damage in food savings,also is much better than end running inside a building ,hope all turns OK for you... One thing that shows up statistically ,the worst accidents are usualy caused by animals invading the roads and the INSTINCT to try to avoid them....can happen to anyone
    Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram
Sign In or Register to comment.