How much freedom would you be willing to sacrifice for safety?

bsebast

How much freedom would you be willing to sacrifice for safety? Many countries require security precautions in everyday situations. How would you feel about video surveillance in major public areas? Or routine bag searches at stores and train stations? How about the sealing off of streets to restrict access to buildings like the World Trade Center? What's the right price to pay for security? How much is too much?

nunn

NONE!!!! Not one bit.I would rather have to walk the streets with gun in hand and a trusted compadre at my back than give up one smidgen of liberty and privacy.So there.

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Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!

7mm_ultra_mag_is_king

I would rather die a free man. You will never takes my freedoms from me, I will die fighting for them. I would rather be dead then to have Uncle Sam make me safe.

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when all else fails........................

.250Savage

NONE NONE NONE!!! I would rather live in "Mad Max" land than have the gu'mmint nose stuck up my a** 24/7!!! NONE!!! You hear that, Swinestein, McBane, Poxer?

Shootist3006

As Thomas Jefferson said "He that would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security deserves neither."

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Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis

cpileri

Ditto. None.

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beachmaster73

Guys does that mean we get rid of the police, the military and firemen and we go back to the old days of "bang bang shootum up" or paying subscriptions for fire services? Who takes care of your women when you are at work? Yea yea I know all of your women know how to shoot and would easily kill any armed interloper. Personally I felt pretty safe this Christmas when I took my oldest boy to the airport to fly out to see his Mom...I didn't mind the extra security one iota. Yea some bad guy might still get through but he's going to have to work a lot harder than before at it. Beach

thesupermonkey

Beach is stirring like crazy...

mudge

When I think of FREEDOM, airport searches don't immediately come to mind. I don't think someone searching my luggage at an airport is anything close to relinquishing my FREEDOM per se.FREEDOM is, plain and simple, my right to CHOOSE. Mudge the free

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I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!

caveman

Wasn't there a place that had alot of "security" and check points to make sure the wrong people weren't going where they didn't belong?Oh yeah.....Does U.S.S.R. ring a bell?

thebutcher

I think we need to beef up security around non-citizens, but not around citizens. Americans didn't fight and die for the freedom of non-citizens.

Shootist3006

Beach mentioned airport security as an example where increased security is not an imposition on freedom. - Yes and no - Yes because it is a common sense thing that needs to be done in this ugly day of box-cutters and exploding shoes. No because it is a common sense thing and the airlines would be doing it by themselves without big government creating (federalizing) 28,000 new federal cops. Airlines would be advertising how strict their security was and how safe they are without federal cops doing the checking.Creating a new federal bureaucracy and expanding the federal police state powers is not the way to do it.The airlines could do whatever they feel is necessary (within certain guidelines) and the public could choose whether or not they wanted to fly with them.

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Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis

thebutcher

Shootist- I disagree with your last statement. An airplane is not only dangerous for people in it. 3000+ people died on 9/11 who never chose an airline at all. Airline security is not a matter for fliers only. The airlines were repeatedly warned about security lapses, but to save money they hired illiterate fools to screen passengers. What is really disgusting is how we bailed them out after they dropped the ball.

bsebast

December 28, 2001Insecure security by Cal ThomasThe proper way to do airport security is brought to us by El Al Airlines. I have flown Israel's national airline many times and have always been impressed with the way they interrogate every passenger. That's right, interrogate. There's no perfunctory, "Did any stranger ask you to carry anything? Have all of your items been with you since you packed them?" After all, what terrorist is going to say, "No stranger gave me anything, but several of my friends and I are carrying bombs which we intend to use to blow up your airplane and kill everyone on board, including ourselves, Allah be praised"? Western security always seems to be one or more steps behind the terrorists. It goofed badly on Sept. 11. A disaster was averted last Saturday (Dec. 22) on a Paris-Miami flight when a quick-thinking flight attendant and several male passengers subdued a man identified as Richard Reid (who doesn't look like his name) as he allegedly tried to set fire to his sneakers, which authorities say contained explosives. Here's the way the Israelis do things: Before I get to the ticket counter in New York, a young Jewish man or woman intercepts me and examines my ticket and passport in great detail. He (or she) asks me where I'm from and my area code. I had better know it. The questions continue in a steady stream. What do I do for a living? What papers carry my column? How long have I been a writer? What do I write about? Have I been to Israel before? Where did I stay? Did I travel to any of the territories? What for? Who did I see? Have I ever been to an Arab country? Where? For how long? What for? Whom did I interview while there? What was I told? What is my mother's maiden name? Do I know why I am being asked these questions? If any answer is wrong, or if I seem evasive, I could be taken out of line and questioned further. No airline is as secure to fly as El Al. Armed guards escort all planes to the runway. These efforts explain why El Al has had only one hijacking in its history, in 1968, before the current procedures were in place. El Al also checks every passenger through Interpol to see if they have a police record. If two people are traveling together, they're sometimes questioned separately to see if their stories match. And El Al profiles its passengers without apology. They know what their enemies look like and where most of them come from. Compare this approach to what the traveling public faces in the United States and much of the West. The security people hired to protect U.S. airline passengers are a joke. Many are not American citizens. They appear bored with their jobs and most lack the kind of law enforcement training that would help them spot trouble before a dangerous passenger gets on a plane. Security isn't just about finding contraband in luggage or on a passenger's person. It's also about detecting what's in someone's mind and being able to read what their eyes say. Some aviation experts with whom I've spoken say the United States does not have to hire the Israelis for its own security but it had better adopt their procedures if we want safer travel. All the talk about civil liberties and the Constitution is of no use when airline passengers are targeted by a passenger with plastic explosives hidden in his shoes. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta says he opposes profiling because as a young boy he spent time in a Japanese internment camp during World War II. But that was then and this is now. Japanese-Americans were no threat to us then. The terrorist threat among us now is real. As irritating as some airline security procedures may be, it's better to arrive at your destination alive and somewhat offended and inconvenienced than not to arrive at all. The Bush administration should support the Israelization of American airline security, and it should make it a high priority, no matter what the cost.

Judge Dread

I think my last answer to this one was over "nitrified" and nunn "poofed" it at a distance ,but still the truth cannot be denied (Security is FUTILE )too much SPOOKS out there.......

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Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram

robsguns

Being on Candid Camera would really suck, I'd never be able to pick my nose, scratch my nuts, or pick my under wear out of my * without someone rebroadcasting it on 60 minutes or 20/20 during prime time. No I dont think the constant surveillance is for me buddy.

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SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

WEASEL-88

How about a full cavity search to make sure no one has a fuse hanging out of their *.

.250Savage

What about when it's "that time of the month", and the woman has that string...uh, maybe I shouldn't go there.

alledan

Freedom is safety and visa versa!

robsguns

Personally, in case you havent noticed, I have a problem with vehicle safety, not that I want to see anything in particular done differently, I just love using it as a comparison for everything evil. I dont believe we should do one thing differently, almost. There is just another band wagon that all the weak of mind, and low on intelligence type of people are jumping on. I say it again, if you think we should all panic and start jumping through hoops to change airline safety and alter our American way of life, you're weak minded and unintelligent, and you're a victim of terrorism. Doing what Bush is doing about the problem is the correct approach, bomb them, catch them, and prosecute them, that is the example that must be used, not blind terror as the media promotes. No one has taken cars off the road, they kill daily, no one has made cigarettes illegal, they kill daily. Those 2 things alone PROBABLY, I dont KNOW FOR SURE, account for more deaths EACH year than the Sept. 11th incident. And if no one sees fit to do anything about that, because it would infringe upon our rights, then why in the world start having spasms about airline security, national security? Doesnt anyone around the U.S. know their history? We're panicing just like we did over Pearl Harbor, blaming everyone who looks the type of a terrorist, when in fact they're Americans, just like the Japanese citizens of WWII. What should be done is to revitalize the worlds memory of what the U.S. will do to what ever group of idiots decides to screw with us, no matter where it is. In addition to that we need to bring back the level of security to the nation that existed when the CIA was run by people who remembered the day of Pearl Harbor. National security is achieved through intelligence ops. not public scrutiny through video monitors and big brother activity. I've personally not felt the pain of Sept. 11th, I feel for those who are, but think with your head and not your heart. Now you're taking off your shoes to get on the plane, shoot, tomorrow you'll be walking on board naked and thinking you are taking a vacation at a nudist colony, males board through the front hatch please, females through the rear, blankets are available from the flight attendant at the door. Gimme a break!!!!!!

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SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

badboybob

Calm down robsguns. If my family travels by air I would rather have them subjected to the Israeli type of security than the proven failure of American "security". It has nothing to do with freedom, it has everything to do with arriving alive.As for nudity on the aircraft I invite you to look at the typical passenger queue. Now how many of them would you like to see nude? [This message has been edited by badboybob (edited 12-29-2001).]

berto64

BBB,Good Point! Now if I can choose my fellow passengers, that's different.berto

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What! Trade my M-14 for that plastic piece of ___t!Endeavor to Persevere

robsguns

BBB, LMAO, that wasnt exactly what I was envisioning, but it sure is funny now that I think about it.

v35

What if this idiot did his thing in the washroom? El Al apparently had a handle on this guy. Why didnt we know about him? How did he get by US Customs/Immigration in Paris?The freedom at any price guys would find the El Al interrogation very offensive and intrusive as I did on a flight to Europe.We also need explosive sniffing dogs at check ins.Without universal positive I.D. we're just a pissin against the wind thinking we can win this thing. Anonimity of any American todayhas been an illusion for many years.

Judge Dread

.250Savage A C4 tampoon with a waterproff cannon fuse... What a mess !

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Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram

7mm_ultra_mag_is_king

Judge. have you taken your medicine today?? And may I suggest a good therapist? You need one. When have you ever heard of the powers that be ever admit that someone else does something better than the good 'ol USA? Our system will probably not get any better as long as we have self centered ego maniacs running this country, just look at Kalifornia. That is the perfect example of how things happen when you think your perfect. PS , off subject do you know Kali was voted as having the absolute worst roads in the country this year? So much for being so much better! I was going to post the article but I quessed y'all was tired of me posting articles from trucker sites. Here is the site if your interested in it http://www.landlinemag.com/todays_news/Daily/Dec01/122801.html

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when all else fails........................[This message has been edited by 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king (edited 12-29-2001).]

Judge Dread

Kali India or Colombia ? and what does that have to do with "Thoose days of the month" "nitrified" implements, Havent you ever heard of The Fatima Jihad wariors, they are worst than any male terrorist you may encounter but as always I am weeks ahead of all US Intelligence ,we are going to be in FULL MOON at new years eve.... better start "inspecting thoose strings for green colored ones"

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Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram