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Where's the outrage?

GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
edited April 2002 in General Discussion
According to AP news reports, Vice President Cheney told Senator Leahy to "F--k off," during an encounter earlier this week.

From the article:

"Senate aides with knowledge of the encounter Tuesday said the vice president confronted Leahy about some of the Democrat's criticism about alleged improprieties in Iraq military contracts awarded to Halliburton Co. Cheney, who as vice president is president of the Senate, is a former CEO of Halliburton.

Leahy responded by saying the vice president had once called him a 'bad' Catholic.

Cheney then responded, 'F--- off' or 'F--- you,' two aides said, both speaking on condition of anonymity."

So, given how much of a fit so many folks had when Kerry used similar language, where's the outrage? Where's the indignation and the demands for an apology?

Will you folks stick by your moralistic guns and call Cheney out on this or will you make excuses for the poor, misunderstood veep?[}:)][;)]

By the way, as I don't find foul language offensive for the most part, I will neither condemn nor condone Cheney's actions/words.
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Comments

  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok, I'm not the most religiously knowledgeable person, but isn't the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem a Christian holy place? I've been watching the whole conflict for weeks now and Arafts comments just floor me:

    The Palestinian leader called Israel's siege of the holy Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem "shameful."

    So you've got people with guns hold up in a place that's a holy site for non-Muslims. They specifically moved there because they knew the Israelis wouldn't storm the place. Can you imagine if Israel fortified themselves in a mosque for the last 2 weeks? Literally there'd be mass protests and demonstrations in half the world. The media would be slaughtering the hell out of Israel. Seems to me like a serious double standard here. If my facts are indeed right, am I the only one who thinks that this is incredibly biased?
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bette Midler tweeted "Women are the N*****s of the world" recently, then pulled it down a few hours later. She issued an apology, stating that her poor choice of words was a product of the Kavanaugh investigation. Well, I guess that makes it OK because there has been no caterwauling, spinning of heads or calls to ostracize her. If she hadn't been a frothing-at-the-mouth liberal it would have been a completely different story.
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The more proper question is, Where is the outrage that the Israelis
    are in Bethlehem in the first place? .
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Of what use is outrage? What do you propose? Isreal started it years ago when they occupied the West Bank. Where would you have the Palestinians go? Don't get me wrong, I do not suppost terrorism, but frankly this was predictable in broad strokes when the British gave the jews nearly all of Palestine after WWII. It was never conceivable that these people will get along. We have supported Isreal for years, and not that the fanatic Zionists are in power they are not listening to use or any one else. The Israelies deserve a country. The Palestinians deserve a country. The fanatics are running things on both sides. It will neither be easy nor quick in its' solution.
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  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I said it before and I'ma say it again.

    Why does the US support Israel? They have no major exports of any kind and are surrounded by hostiles. Logically we should be supporting the other side. They have oil and strategic land. Both sides have given the US a big middle finger on different occasions, yet we still fund Israel.

    I think it is because of skewed interest of our politicians. They receive significant campaign contributions from certain Americans. Those Americans have strong affiliations with Israel, not including the "Dual citizenship" they enjoy. In order to keep receiving those contributions our officials support the cause.

    I feel that in order to look out for the best interest of the USA, the USA must be the only place you love and call home. That Dual crap distorts the best interests for this country. It's not just "certain Americans" that enjoy this, but many of our leaders and politicians who enjoy this also.

    I firmly beleive that our involvement with Israel is what brought terror to our cities. Here we are, funding a country that stole it's land with arms and supplies so they can annihalate their neighbors, whose citizens are piss poor.

    Doesn't make sense to me.

    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    GreenLantern, you asked a great question which none of our friends here have addressed.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I sat at an all-night restaurant with some acquaintances the other night and heard a Christian espousing his understanding of the way things are, everything from the possible signs of the end times to who might be the anti-Christ. Among his comments was the idea that we are locked to support of Israel because to be otherwise would go against everything Christian and Biblical, and we might all be damned for it. Does that kind of thinking give anyone pause? Apparently there are a significant number of American Christians who believe we "belong" in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, Nazareth and the rest, and our salvation depends upon alliance with Israel, and that abandoning those areas, in any material way, would be unthinkable.

    Nobody's come out and said we have to support Israel (i.e., the Christian Holy Land) to avoid civil unrest at home among American Christians, but they may be thinking it.
    The 2nd Amendment is about security, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Re: the above comment by GreenLantern. Perhaps we should occupy the * box in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, and see what happens?
    The 2nd Amendment is about security, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member.
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting post Blade, please state the question as you see it.
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I brought up this issue in our last thread about Israel.

    However, gruntled and co. were able to sucessfully obfuscate this revolting travesty.

    The idea of those bloodthirsty savages holed up in a church built on the site of Jesus's birth....

    I hope they find some real nice way to punish them for this disgusting blasphemy after they starve them out.

    Something involving piano wire would probably be just.

    A fine cigar gladdens the soul."Remember, there are only two: The Quick, and the Dead"
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The idea of those bloodthirsty savages holed up in a church built on the site of Jesus's birth.....

    Something involving piano wire would probably be just

    Just who is the bloodthirsty savage?
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He Dog, sorry for the delay answering your question, I was otherwise occupied on the internet. As an aside, I was trying to make some airline reservations over the net for a job interview. Before 9/11, I used to make airline reservations on the net in 10 minutes or less, I had lots of choices, and the prices weren't bad. This time, to get even a decent price, I had to be flexible about my return date and work at it for over an hour.

    Now, to the issue at hand. I was fortunate to visit the Church of the Nativity almost exactly two years ago when everything was quiet. We passed from Israel controlled regions to P.A. controlled regions with no problems, not even a checkpoint. Israel was ready to give the Palestinians 90+% of what they could have reasonably expected, and the Palestinians were looking forward to casinos and other planned tourist traps. So I reject the idea that peace is not possible (in theory) but there is one thing preventing it, which is that there is a sizeable proportion of the Palestinian community that will not be satisfied with anything short of the destruction of Israel as a Jewish homeland, whether we're talking about the post-67 borders or the pre-67 borders or we're down to a single ghetto in Jerusalem.

    The Church of the Nativity is the oldest Christian church still in existence. Ranking it among Christian holy places, it is not the most holy (that would be the Church of the Holy Sepulchre), but it is right up there. Whatever their complaints, the Palestinians have no business going in there with guns and holding priests and nuns captive. Imagine what would happen if Christians or Jews with a grievance took over the Dome of the Rock or even Al Aqsa Mosque with guns and held Muslim clerics hostage. The entire Muslim world would go berserk.

    And finally, while I'm sorry that the Palestinians were forced to make some major accommodations in 1948 to establish a Jewish homeland, my sympathy is limited. My ancestors in recent memory lost their homes and homeland and many lives at the hands of oppressors who make the Israelis look like saints. They had to rebuild everything in a foreign land. Who is going to give my ancestors' land and possessions back to me? Exactly nobody, that's who. What would the world do if my community sent suicide bombers against civilians in the country that was taken from us? Hunt us down like the terrorists we would be. So the Palestinians think they're justified targeting civilians and killing their own children to get some dusty land back? Screw them and the camels they rode in on.
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hats off to you guys who actually responded relative to the topic. I thought about prefacing my questions such that the discussion should be relavent to the specific issue of the Church of the Nativity. But then I'm sure someone would have said that you can't answer that without looking at the whole picture. After all, because of the big picture we have armed men holding up in a religious site. But in this case I do think that this rather narrow issue can be discussed. I just feel that the rest of the world is so biased. If the Israelis were commandeering a mosque, you'd see the French, the Germans, and just about any other country calling for Israel to leave immediately. You'd probably even see the UN passing a resolution demanding specifically the withdrawl from the mosque (maybe they have already. But I haven't heard of that yet). Not just a resolution demanding a pullback from everywhere! I guess it's BTT for the point I'm trying to make. I just feel that there's not the outrage that there would be if things were switched around and it was a mosque.
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The priests & nuns in the church say they are not being held hostage.
    They are offering santuary to the policemen & militamen who were defending their homes & families & whom the surrounding troups are
    determined to slaughter just as they have murdered so many others that have tried to surrender. The men in the church have heard of the other atrosities & will not be fooled.
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gruntled, I don't think you have the complete story, which we won't really know for sure until it's over, maybe not even then.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/dreher/dreher040902.asp
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  • scott5792scott5792 Member Posts: 300 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Seems to me the U.S.A. has decided to side with a known terrorist instead of backing the Israelis.With us or against us indeed.
    When we were attacked on Sept.11. It was by the muslims(not all,I know) Who's rallying in the streets with kids on their shoulders with fake bomb belts on?(muslims)Who is calling for more terrorist attacks here and abroad against Americans?(Muslims)
    So it would seem to me. With the Israelis taking care of the terrorist infrastructure in Palistein, we'd be happy as ever. WE don't have troops on the ground there yet.
    We all know how well that is going to go over when it inevitably happens.We will have suicide bombers going after the "peace keepers" again.
    We came out like a lion after Sept 11. Then our sack dried up and fell off.
    Now we're getting bent over by Arafat. Telling us what he wants us to do for him.
    NOT A CHANCE. He chose what he wanted years ago.
    As for the "occupied territories" That's what happens when you attack and lose.Costs ya.
    When you are sending kids into the street to throw rocks,suicide bombers murdering civilians almost at will.WEe as Americans, would do exactly what the Israelis are doing now. Ending this BS once and for all.
    None of the palistinians will ever accept Israel as it's own state.And there will never be peace over there.
    Ask any arab you see.
    I have a niece that married an arab. He siad, in a room full of family
    " you can't trust any arab".
    I believe he is speaking the truth.He's one of the arabs,he'd know. Right?
    Scott
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    scott5792, a week ago I was where you are in my thinking, but after some reflection I believe there is more here than meets the eye, or in this case more than is being let out for public consumption. I'm still mad at GWB for campaign finance, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one until we see how the next few months play out.

    These attacks went on for well over a year before Israel began to do anything effective against them, while they waited for Arafat and his "policemen" to get things under control. There is now evidence that Arafat was only one short step removed from the bombers and he never had any intention of doing anything about them. If the suicide/homicide bombings were happening to us in similar circumstances, many Americans now crying about the poor, oppressed Palestinians would be singing a different tune.
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  • scott5792scott5792 Member Posts: 300 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    LOL. In the next few month.Israel will be done :o)

    I agree if this was happening here. People would open their eyes. of course seems our outrage over 9/11 has subsided and we are falling right back to where we were before the attack.back to power trips in the gov't and big business running things.(I totally disagree with the world bank theory too)
    Not sure what it will take to wake people up again. I suppose when these nuts attack again. We'll go through another spate of let's get them.

    When the suicide bomber decides to blast a hooters full of people.
    Internment camps can not be far behind.
    I can't tell on from another.:) Can you?
    WHen it's over. We can pay them just like the japanese.
    Scott
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  • SCREWEDUPSCREWEDUP Member Posts: 60 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    YES THE MEDIA IS BIAS IN IT"S COVERAGE OF THE TERRORIST IN THE CHURCH OF THE NATIVITY AND ON ABOUT EVERY THING ELSE THAT IS PRO JUDISM. FOR YEARS THE JEWS WHO CAPTURED THE WEST BANK TERRITORY AFTER THEY WERE ATTACKED BY 3 COUNTRIES SEEKING THEIR DESTRUCTION HAS ENDURED TERROIST ATTACKS AND CONTIUNED TO ENDURE.THAT ALONE SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. LESS THAN 60 YEARS AGO THIER FAMLIES WERE BEING PASSIVELY ROUNDED UP AND GASSED ALMOST TO THE POINT OF NO RETURN ARE THESE THE SAME PEOPLE? YES BUT THEY NOW SAY "NO MORE". THE PALESTINES HAD A GRAND CHANCE AT PEACE AND THERE OWN HOMELAND , BUT THEY THREW IT AWAY. THE JEWS SHOULD REALIZE "LAND FOR PEACE WILL NEVER WORK".ESPECIALLY SINCE THEY(YOUR NEIGHBORS) JUST WANT YOUR BLOOD. IF U WANT TO READ HOW THE JEWS READ THE MEDIA SPIN GO TO WWW.JWR.COM
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gordian! That was a great article!!
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  • skipjackoneskipjackone Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why can't we all just get along?
    Let's bust some caps boys!
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Forget about outraging the entire Muslim world. I'm sick to death of walking on eggshells around clearly moral vs. immoral issues for fear of offending the tender sensibilities of these backward savages.

    Personally, I think a Ranger company should have taken the Dome of the Rock the minute we heard that the Palestinians had taken the Church of the Nativity.

    Give the Arab gunmen one day to leave ours, and tell the Israelis to let them leave, or else we'll burn yours down and piss on the ashes.

    I'm so sick of everything the Arabs do getting whitewashed and sugar-coated in the media. They could probably send a hundred suicide bombers into Tel Aviv and the Liberal media would still back them up.

    Screw Yasir Arafat, screw Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia, and screw Colin Powell for meeting with them.

    The time is rapidly approaching when people, both in this country and especially in the Middle East, are going to have to stop riding the fence and just pick sides and pick up your guns.

    If we tolerate extremism there, we'll soon be back to tolerating it here.

    Side Note: I remember reading somewhere that al-Jazeera is offered as a premium channel in some parts of the US, and something like 12,000 people subscribe. You want to find your terrorists? Get the subscription records and send a SWAT team door to door.

    Edited by - Bullzeye on 04/18/2002 19:13:10
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good post Bullzeye.

    PC=BS
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  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want to read about the innocent victims of Jenin, try this article from a non-US, non-Israeli source, it will be well worth your while:

    http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2002/582/6inv2.htm

    Edited by - Gordian Blade on 04/18/2002 20:52:08
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    The Palestinians fight like vipers, hanging from the trees, and are applauded.

    The Israelis fight like bee-stung bears and are castigated.

    As far as I'm concerned, let the march to the sea begin. It's clear that nothing short of a re-inactment of Sherman's March will stop the suicide bombings.
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  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Did....

    Did sombody say somethin` about bees?
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Bees, eh?

    Here's an idea for you: A man-portable 3-barrel chaingun system that fires a very small, but very fast round, like the .218 or the .22 Hornet.

    One press of the trigger fires like 20 rounds or something. Even with a little bitty round, that should be enough to kill anyone.

    Now if only the M-16 could manage that...

    A fine cigar gladdens the soul."Remember, there are only two: The Quick, and the Dead"
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,078 ******
    edited November -1
    I watched a taped interview last night. Pat Robertson was interviewing a former Arab Muslim turned Christian and college professor. He verified what I have believed for a long time. There is no PEACE in Islam. Not until the world is eradicated of the infidels. Well, I am an infidel, and I ain't going easy.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Hey Nunn: those are what you consider "respectful" sources to accept? Geez.

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
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  • CAndres35CAndres35 Member Posts: 453 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well here goes nothing! i heard today that the U>S> has agreed to pay for the rebuilding of the infrastructure for the palastiniens when the fighting is over. that really pi##ed me off. the jews spent 40 yrs roaming the desert to find the only place in the area that didnt have oil. the promised land was given to them by god and by god i dont believe anyone should take it away from them. if the musilims try to i think we should back them 100%. the jewish people have done everthing reasonable to try to gain peace and the musilims have not and will not be satisfied until everyone of them is dead. look into history and see what has happened to every country that has prosecuted the jews and see what has happened to them[overthrown, defeated, anhilated,no longer exist.] the jews are still god chosen people and until the end time they will have a chance to repent and accept jesus as there savior. until then nothing is going to destroy them. i think this has been the strength and salvation of the U>S>, that we are one of the only nations that have not persecuted the jewish people and nation.
    sorry for the long dissertation but i have very strong feelings about this subject and could go on and on. CARL
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://slate.msn.com/?id=2064500
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,623 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I see this passionate and emotional support for Israel it makes me think that America is in a lot of trouble. Why should we give so much military aid to this country? They are dragging us toward Armageddon. Jewish people really do control a lot of the media here, and they have been very effective in getting their message out. What Mao did in China was a lot worse that what Hitler did with the Jews, but since Steven Spielburg is not Chinese, we get Schindler's List. When did Hollywood make a big movie about the Chinese Holocaust, or Stalin's murders of what, 13 million, in the Ukraine. Israel doesn't really care about the US, as demonstrated when they shot up that US spy ship in the 1967 war. Many, many American fatalaties. Great God, does that incident get swept under the rug by the Israel apologists. I hate Usama bin Laden for what he did to my countrymen and I would kill him personally if I had the chance, but make no mistake, the only reason these Muslim psychos are after us is because of our support of Israel. If these guys just hated and were envious of the West as a place of godless hedonism and materialism, as is put forth by many, including the President, they would have bombed Oslo. Norway is just as prosperous as we are, 95% of the populace does not go to church, and 45% of births are out of wedlock. No, the difference is Norway has too small a GNP and too much sense to go half the way around the world butting into arguments that are not their business.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The whole article, but note paragraph 6

    http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/020429/opinion/29john.htm
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