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Airlines Accused Of Pressuring Bush Administration

Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
Airlines Accused Of Pressuring Bush Administration To Keep Pilots Unarmed
By Jim Burns
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
May 21, 2002

(CNSNews.com) - The chairman of the House Aviation Subcommittee accused major American air carriers Tuesday of pressuring the Bush administration into keeping pilots unarmed during flights.

Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.) also vowed to keep pushing legislation to arm pilots, because he said they need every means of defense necessary against terrorists and other threats.

Undersecretary of Transportation John Magaw told the Senate Commerce Committee Tuesday that pilots will not be allowed to carry guns, but failed to give a reason why.

"I think there has been pretty heavy pressure from the airlines, and I think the airlines are making a big mistake," said Mica in an interview with CNSNews.com.

"If the airlines want folks to fly, they should have every measure in place that protects the aircraft, the pilots, the passengers and the crew. I think they have grossly erred in advising the administration on this," he said.

When asked to clarify his position that airlines are pressuring the administration, Mica said, "I'm not sure where else the pressure could come from to oppose this."

"I think it's a misguided decision and I think that given the information that we have, with a potential of threats and with the ability of terrorists to be trained to takeover an aircraft by lethal or non-lethal weapons, we need every protection in place possible," he said.

Sen. Ernest Hollings (D-S.C.), chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, said during Tuesday's hearing that guns are not needed as long as cockpit doors remain locked while the plane is in flight.

Mica doesn't agree.

"I think that takes a fantasy view. We've seen the cockpit doors and some of the improvements that have been put in place can be thwarted by even one deranged passenger," he said.

Mica cited a recent flight from Argentina to Miami when the pilots had to hit an intruder with an ax in order to protect themselves.

"This doesn't give me great confidence," Mica said. He predicted it would be several years before the airline industry completely secures cockpit doors, but "a trained terrorist can still find a way to penetrate the cockpit."

Mica along with House Transportation Committee Don Young (R-Alaska) has introduced legislation to allow pilots to be armed. He expects it to pass in committees this week and see House floor action soon.

Similar legislation has been introduced on the Senate side. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200205\NAT20020521e.html

"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878

Comments

  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most Major Air Carriers Against Arming Pilots In Cockpits
    By Jim Burns
    CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
    May 22, 2002

    (1st Add: Includes comments by the Air Transport Association.)

    (CNSNews.com) - A spokeswoman for Delta Air Lines Wednesday said the company agrees with the U.S. Department of Transportation's decision to prevent the arming of pilots in cockpits. However, she did not respond to an accusation by a House subcommittee chairman, that America's major airlines had pressured the Bush administration to keep the pilots unarmed.

    Undersecretary of Transportion John Magaw told the Senate Commerce Committee Tuesday that pilots will not be allowed to carry guns, but did not elaborate about the reasons.

    Katie Connell, a spokeswoman for Delta, told CNSNews.com, "Delta supports the decision that was made. We do not support the introduction of lethal or non-lethal weapons inside the aircraft, except by federal air marshals or other currently authorized law enforcement officials.

    "We have implemented numerous security enhancements since September 11 to protect our flight deck crews. Those include cockpit door security bars, new cockpit exit and entry procedures and introduction of federal sky marshals on board the aircraft," Connell said.

    Connell did not want to discuss the accusation made by House Aviation Subcommittee Chairman John Mica (R-Fla.), that the airlines had pressured the Bush administration. "I wouldn't have a comment beyond what I just stated to you on our position," she said.

    Mesa Airlines, based in Phoenix, Ariz., favors a limited arming of the pilots, according to spokeswoman Benet Wilson.

    "We feel strongly that pilots should be armed in the cockpit. But we feel they should carry tasers and not any other type of lethal weapon," Wilson told CNSNews.com. Wilson declined comment on Mica's accusation as well.

    Taser weapons, are also known as "stun guns."

    The weapons fire an electronic charge that instantly disables an attacker, allowing time for them to be restrained. A weapons expert told CNSNews.com the stun guns are useful in situations where an attacker is in close proximity to the victim.

    U-S Airways had no comment, according to a spokesman and referred calls to the Air Transport Association. The Air Transport Association said they would not respond directly to Mica's accusations but did say they are against arming pilots, according to spokesperson Michael Wascom.

    Southwest Airlines, in a statement, said it opposes the arming of pilots in the cockpits.

    "Southwest believes that the potential risks to passengers and flight crews from the introduction of weapons, lethal or otherwise, into the aircraft environment far outweigh any speculative benefits of such weapons," the statement said.

    "Weapons in aircraft cockpits would create additional uncertainty and yet another variable for flight crews to contend with in emergency situations," according to the Southwest statement.

    Northwest and Continental Airlines had no comment. American, and United Airlines did not return calls seeking comment.

    However, last November, United announced it would be the first major American airline to install advanced Taser weapons in every cockpit.

    The weapons, which will be installed in electronically coded lock boxes on each United aircraft, will be available to pilots in case of a hijacking so the cockpit can be defended. In addition, all United Airlines flight attendants will undergo a special training program.

    "United and its pilots believe Tasers are an important addition to enhanced cockpit security. Tasers will incapacitate an attacker without endangering the airplane," said Andrew Studdert, United's chief operating officer and executive vice president. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200205\NAT20020522c.html



    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thousands Signed Petition Calling For Guns in Cockpits
    By Matt Pyeatt
    CNSNews.com Staff Writer
    May 22, 2002

    (CNSNews.com) - Tens of thousands of people had signed a petition urging Congress to create a program to train and arm U.S. airline pilots before the Bush administration Tuesday announced it would continue its ban on guns in the cockpits.

    The petition, circulated and delivered by the Airline Pilots' Security Alliance (APSA), was delivered to U.S. Rep. John Mica (R-Fla.), who chairs the House Aviation Subcommittee.

    The petition drew 53,417 signatures, according to APSA's website.

    APSA Chairman Capt. Tracy W. Price authored the petition.

    "Airline pilots across this country are dumfounded," Price said. "Al Qaeda is surely laughing at our lack of moral certainty and strength and terrorist organizations all over the world have been sent the clear message that it is still open season on airliners and large buildings. On one hand, the administration is telling us that more attacks are imminent, but on the other hand, they refuse to allow us to defend our passengers and crew against the promised attacks."

    Price said it is essential to the safety of all aboard commercial airlines that pilots be armed. "We are stunned that they are willing to compromise the safety of air travelers to further their interests in this power struggle [the airlines] have initiated with their pilots," he said.

    According to the APSA petition, "Common sense and logic dictate that the men and women we trust each day with our lives when we board an airliner can and should be trusted with firearms in order to provide the critical last line of defense."

    APSA is not the only pilot organization supporting the arming of pilots. The Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) agrees that firearm-equipped pilots could serve as the last line of defense in a terrorist hijacking.

    "The government already has told us that if terrorists take control of one of our cockpits, they will send military aircraft to shoot down the airliner and all its crew and passengers," Capt. Duane Woerth, president of ALPA, said.

    "In the face of such choices, we do not understand why these same government officials refuse to give pilots a last chance to prevent such a tragedy," Woerth added. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200205\NAT20020522d.html



    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Congress' Help Sought on Armed Pilots
    Associated Press
    Last Updated: May 23, 2002 at 10:59:41 p.m.
    WASHINGTON - Supporters of arming commercial airline pilots are asking Congress to overturn the Bush administration's decision against allowing firearms in the cockpits.

    The House Transportation aviation subcommittee is to consider legislation Thursday to allow trained pilots to carry guns, and a bipartisan group of senators is moving ahead with a separate bill.

    ``While I'm disappointed with the Department of Transportation's decision, I will redouble my efforts to pass this measure,'' said Sen. Conrad Burns, R-Mont. ``It's imperative that we provide pilots with this crucial option.''

    House Transportation Committee chairman Don Young, R-Alaska, said he plans to have his panel consider the bill next month.

    But in the Senate, Commerce Committee chairman Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., remains opposed to armed pilots.

    ``Pilots are supposed to fly,'' said Hollings, whose panel oversees the airline industry in the Senate. ``They're not supposed to shoot.''

    Transportation Undersecretary John Magaw, who heads the new Transportation Security Administration, said Tuesday he would not allow pilots to carry guns. Reinforced cockpits and armed air marshals provide enough protection against terrorists who try to take over an airplane, Magaw said.

    ``The responsibility of the pilot is to control the aircraft,'' Magaw said. ``The use of firearms aboard a U.S. aircraft must be limited to those thoroughly trained members of law enforcement. Our position is make that cockpit as safe as we can, control that plane and get it on the ground.''

    Magaw said he had not decided whether to allow nonlethal weapons, such as stun guns.

    If Congress passed a law arming pilots, however, Magaw said he would follow it. ``I think it's a mistake, but I'll do whatever you legislate,'' he said.

    Airline pilots' unions plan to push for the legislation. They have organized petition drives and face-to-face meetings with lawmakers.

    ``At this point, our only recourse is to call on Congress to reassert its wishes regarding firearms in the cockpit,'' said Capt. Duane Woerth, president of the Air Line Pilots Association, which has given $1.5 million to federal candidates since January 1999.

    Young said the Air Force now is authorized to shoot down a commercial airliner commandeered by hijackers. ``I strongly believe that under these new circumstances, we must allow trained and qualified pilots to serve as the last line of defense against such a potential disaster,'' he said.

    Air Travelers Association President David Stempler also endorsed guns in the cockpit.

    ``If hijackers are able to force themselves into the cockpit, all that pilots have to prevent the plane from being turned into a cruise missile is a crash ax, a flashlight and a flight manual,'' he said.

    On the other side, the airline industry backed Magaw's decision. The Air Transport Association, trade group for the major airlines, cited the ``unintended consequences of arming pilots with firearms and the potential dangers posed to innocent passengers and other crew members.''

    Also backing Magaw was the Association of Flight Attendants. ``Guns in the cockpit offer a false sense of security because it doesn't do anything to protect the people in the back of the cabin that are left to die if there's an attacker on board,'' spokeswoman Dawn Deeks said.

    The liberal Americans for Democratic Action also weighed in on the side of the Bush administration.

    ``The introduction of guns into the cockpit will only diminish security,'' the group said in a statement. ``The presence of additional loaded firearms in a potentially chaotic situation is a chilling thought.''http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/ap/may02/ap-cockpit-guns052302.asp



    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like politicians, pilots need protection

    The Department of Transportation announced Tuesday that it will not allow U.S. airline pilots to carry guns into cockpits (''Security chief says no to guns in cockpit,'' News, Wednesday).

    Why is there a different standard of protection for our elected officials than for everyday citizens? When Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta flew to Chicago on United Airlines shortly after 9/11, he had armed agents with him.

    As an airline captain, I did not see an air marshal on any of my flights until last April. It's disturbing that the administration and elected officials can have protection when they fly, yet most other citizens occasionally have air marshals on their flights.

    I also don't understand why our leaders would deny flight crews the ability to defend the cockpit; an innocent person might be killed or injured during a hijack attempt. They don't want passengers injured, yet our so-called leaders are willing to shoot down a 747 and kill hundreds of people on board, if they need to. Something is wrong with this picture.

    The claim that a stray bullet would either depressurize an aircraft or somehow bring it down is a red herring.

    There already is a hole the size of a suitcase in every airliner that allows the aircraft to be pressurized or depressurized. Several small bullet holes would not make much difference.

    There also are bullets that would not penetrate the skin of an aircraft.

    Every day, somewhere in our country, pilots must make decisions that affect the safety of their passengers and aircraft. Why not give our pilots the ability to defend the cockpit? Doing so could save the passengers, aircraft and possibly thousands on the ground.

    Half-measures favored by politicians are not the answer.

    Norman Nielsen

    Henderson, Nev. http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20020523/4134773s.htm



    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pilots angered by decision denying them firearms

    By RICHARD SIMON
    Los Angeles Times
    5/22/2002


    WASHINGTON - The Bush administration Tuesday denied airline pilots permission to carry guns in the cockpit, angering pilots who had sought that authority and setting up a fight with Congress over the issue.
    In announcing his decision at a Senate hearing on aviation security, transportation security chief John W. Magaw said that armed sky marshals were better suited to defend against would-be hijackers and that pilots "really need to be in control of that aircraft."

    Pilots accused the administration of caving in to pressure from the airlines, which oppose arming pilots. Congressional Republican leaders vowed to press ahead with legislation that would allow pilots to carry weapons.

    "The battle up on the Hill has really just begun," said Sam Mayer, speaking for the Allied Pilots Association, which represents pilots for American Airlines. A House committee later this week is expected to approve a bill permitting pilots to carry guns. A similar bill has been introduced in the Senate.

    The administration is still considering whether to allow pilots to carry nonlethal weapons, such as stun guns. United Airlines has already ordered 1,300 Tasers.

    Magaw told the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee that air marshals would do "whatever they have to, to the point of giving up their own life, to make sure" the cockpit remains protected.

    "The cockpit in the aircraft is for the pilots to maintain positive control of that aircraft," said Magaw, a former Secret Service director. "And the positive control to them . . . is get it on the ground as quickly as you can, regardless of what's happening back there."

    New rules provide for reinforced cockpit doors to prevent would-be hijackers from reaching the airplane's controls, and officials are exploring the use of cameras so that pilots can monitor the passenger cabin.

    Duane Woerth, a Northwest Airlines captain and president of the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents pilots for 42 airlines, said: "The government already has told us that if terrorists take control of one of our cockpits, they will send military aircraft to shoot down the airliner and all its crew and passengers. In the face of such choices, we do not understand why these same government officials refuse to give pilots a last chance to prevent such a tragedy."

    Mayer, an American Airlines captain, also challenged Magaw's thinking, noting that there are two pilots in the cockpit - one of whom could remain at the controls while the other used a gun as a last line of defense.

    "We'll never have enough air marshals to protect us," said Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., chairman of the House Transportation and Infrastructure aviation subcommittee and a sponsor of the legislation to let pilots carry guns.

    The number of air marshals is a secret. But Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta told the committee, "We continue working aggressively to put in place a robust federal air marshal program and will remain exactly on track with the targets" provided to Congress in a closed meeting.

    Mineta had previously expressed opposition to arming pilots, but no official announcement was made until Tuesday.

    On another matter, Mineta warned the senators that air passengers would face longer lines and flight delays unless Congress approved the administration's request for $4.4 billion to further increase airport security.

    http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20020522/1006042.asp





    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association Supports the Efforts of
    Congress to Train and Arm Pilots
    To: National Desk
    Contact: Captain Wayne Stamps of the Southwest Airline Pilots'
    Association, 800-969-7972

    WASHINGTON, May 22 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Responding to the
    announcement made by Transportation Security Administration
    Undersecretary (TSA) John Magaw, that "I will not permit firearms
    in the cockpit", Captain Jon Weaks, President of The Southwest
    Airline Pilots' Association (SWAPA), called on the Members of
    Congress to support H.R. 4636, introduced by Chairman Young and
    Subcommittee Chairman Mica. Requesting congressional support,
    Captain Weaks stated that "Efforts must continue to pass a law for
    a voluntary program to train and arm pilots. I urge all Members of
    Congress to support H.R. 4636 and the companion bill in the Senate
    introduced by Senators Smith, Miller, Murkowski and Burns".

    The Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association (SWAPA), represents
    the 4,090 pilots of Southwest Airlines. Formed in 1978, SWAPA is
    the third-largest pilot union in the United States. Currently the
    pilots of Southwest Airlines operate more than 2,750 flights per
    day to 58 cities across the continental United States.

    Captain Weaks stated "Our pilots have been through rigorous
    background checks, are constantly evaluated for flight performance,
    and are always the very last line of defense in any airborne
    situation. Armed pilots are a deterrent to terrorism. If Members
    of Congress want to keep the passengers and flight crew safe, we
    must have armed pilots to supplement the Air Marshal program which
    will take years to be fully operational".

    Undersecretary Magaw indicated that training pilots was a major
    concern. "We reiterate the SWAPA pilots willingness to undergo any
    firearms training that Undersecretary Magaw's agency may require".
    In conjunction with The Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations
    (CAPA), SWAPA urged all Members of Congress to immediately develop
    and institute a program by which pilot volunteers can be trained
    and authorized to carry lethal-force weapons.

    http://www.usnewswire.com
    -0-
    /U.S. Newswire 202-347-2770/
    05/22 15:38

    Copyright 2002, U.S. Newswire http://www.usnewswire.com/topnews/first/0522-140.html


    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Terrorist-friendly skies:
    Pilots should be
    armed immediately



    AIRLINE PILOTS may not carry firearms, the Department of Transportation has ruled. The reason? "Pilots need to concentrate on flying the plane," said Transportation Undersecretary John Magaw.

    That concentration will come in handy when terrorists are giving the pilots directions on where to crash.

    Immediately after Sept. 11, pilots began demanding the right to arm themselves. Eight months later, the only additional on-board protection the Transportation Department has allowed is reinforced cockpit doors and the occasional federal sky marshal.

    Many are thanking U.S. Sen. Bob Smith for his role in pushing the issue, but Smith's action left a lot to be desired. His amendment to the aviation security bill was hardly a strong one. It could have been written to allow pilots to be armed, end of discussion. Instead, that decision was left to the Federal Aviation Administration, which has all along been cold to the idea.

    In October we warned that Sen. Smith's amendment ran the risk of amounting to a whole lot of nothing because everyone in Washington knew that the FAA and its bosses in the Transportation Department were not likely to allow pilots to be armed.

    Now, half a year later, as the FBI, the secretary of state and the secretary of defense are warning that new attacks on U.S. soil are "inevitable" and pilots are still not allowed to carry guns, Smith is finally introducing a new bill that would allow pilots to carry firearms no matter what the transportation department thinks.

    Bullets that disintegrate on impact would reduce if not eliminate the risk of puncturing the cabin in a firefight. This being the case, there is no reason whatsoever that pilots should not be armed with guns. Pilots are responsible, professional adults whom Americans trust with their lives every day. Many are also former military pilots or current reservists who have extensive experience handling complex weaponry. If we can trust them to fly fighters and bombers and to transport millions of us through the air, we surely can trust them to use handguns to defend their planes against armed terrorists.

    http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_show.html?article=11340



    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Josey1Josey1 Member Posts: 9,598 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Law Enforcement Outraged by "No Guns in Cockpit" policy
    Will anti-gun hysteria mean more innocent lives lost?


    May 23rd 2002



    Washington DC - Law Enforcement Alliance of America staff joined Senators and representatives of the nations' airline pilots union and airline flight attendants union to condemn the recent decision barring pilots from carrying guns in the cockpit and introduce new legislation mandating an armed pilot program.

    Transportation Security Administration Director John Magaw told Congress Tuesday that pilots may not carry firearms as a last ditch means of defense against a terrorist attack.. LEAA Executive Director James Fotis said of the decision, "Undersecretary Magaw and Transportation Secretary Mineta need to put aside their anti-gun hysteria and listen to reason - any security policy that culminates in allowing a military fighter jet to shoot down a jetliner full of innocent Americans certainly has room for a trained pilot armed with a handgun as an alternative."

    Said Fotis, "Magaw himself has conceded in Senate testimony that armed pilots may have made a difference on September 11th, but that things are different today - Mr. Magaw is right, today we know the threat to the cockpit is real and there is no excuse to keep our pilots defenseless in such a dire emergency."

    LEAA has supported the armed pilot program since the idea was first floated by representatives of the airline pilot unions. In addition to arming pilots, LEAA promotes a variety of public safety legislation at the state and federal level including legislation that would arm qualified off duty and retired police officers nationwide.

    While officials from the Transportation Security Administration tout the use of sky marshals and supposedly reinforced cockpit doors, LEAA representatives noted that all of the major federal law enforcement agencies combined don't have enough personnel to put a sky marshal on every flight, let alone the two marshals needed for each flight.

    LEAA Executive Director Jim Fotis, who testified before the Committee for the Advancement of Federal Law Enforcement, expressed concern over a government security policy that provides an air marshal for every flight in and out of the nation's capitol but leaves the rest of the nation's flights and airline passengers to chance. Said Fotis, "we don't trust cockpit doors or security screeners for flights in and out of the capitol - each one has a sky marshal on board, so how is it that the rest of America is supposed to trust just those measures for the flights they take?"

    To schedule an interview with Mr. Fotis, please call (703) 847-2677

    With over 65,000 members and supporters nation-wide, the Law Enforcement Alliance of America (LEAA) is the nation's largest coalition of law enforcement professionals, crime victims, and concerned citizens dedicated to making America safer. Visit our web site at www.LEAA.org
    http://www.leaa.org/pressreleases/2002/020523pr.html



    "If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Better to be sued by survivors of an "unavoidable(?)" hijacking (which can be blamed on a break down in government intelligence work / security) than to risk having a firearm on board. Same pilots were / are in the cockpits of the military aircraft carrying nuclear weapons, but they aren't to be trusted with a 9mm? When was the last time an El Al plane was hijacked? This is beyond stupid. If there were an IQ test for voting, would there be more than 5% liberals in office? Think not.
  • woodsrunnerwoodsrunner Member Posts: 5,378 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a feeling the insurance companies are behind this also.
    I crashed a computer once with a static electric charge. I wonder what a taser could do to all those electronics. I'll take the risk of a stray bullet.

    Woods

    How big a boy are ya?
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