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Be careful who knows you hunt

chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
I need some advice / support. I'm sorry to rant, but here it goes. Be careful who knows you hunt / own a firearm. I was at work this afternoon working on some paperwork when the head of the department came up to me and asked me to speak with him for a minute. I followed him into the hallway and outside, where the head of maintenance, the employee rep from HR and my supervisor were waiting for me. I don't know why the maintnance man was there aside from the fact that he is a VERY large man and I'm only 5'3". They explained to me that someone had gone to the head of the department and accused me of having a gun in my car (untrue). I was searched, my car was searched and then these people interrogated me in the parking lot in full view of my coworkers.They wanted to know if I owned a gun? Was it legally owned? Why did I own it? Had I ever said that I had it in my car? Etc. I informed them that I did own a shotgun and that I enjoyed hunting deer, but I had never taken it into MA state, nor had I ever told anyone that I had it in my car because it was not true. (I live in NH and work just across the state line in MA.)The maintenance man informed me that I was going to be restrained if I so much as raised my voice while they were searching my vehicle. When they finished searching my car and failed to turn up anything, the head of the maintenance department (not my department head) informed me that I was being placed on administrative leave pending an investigation and that I would be called when I could return to work. In the meantime my ID badge was confiscated and told not to return until called or I would be arrested.I inquired about whom had accused me and they informed me that it was "common knowledge." A RUMOR!!!For the sake of background, my workplace is EXTREMELY liberal. It is common knowledge that I am relatively conservative and a hunter and that I am a firm believer in the right of the people to keep and bear arms, I have never said anything to even hint at having a gun on workplace property. I know that a lot of the liberals there are very sensitive about guns and tell me all the time that they should be banned so I make it a point not to allude to such things. It should also be known that they always initiate the conversation, not me. They come to me to try to pick an argument because I'm one of only two people there that I know of that believe in the second amendment. I've been suspended from a job that I dearly love and work very hard at, and I just got off the phone with one of my coworkers who informed me that rumors are flying. It's being rumored all over the company that they found a gun (untrue) and that I'm some psychopath that was planning something terrible. If anyone has any advice as to what recourse I have, please let me know either here or by email. I would especially like to hear from lawyers or anyone knowledgeable about the law and what my rights are in this situation. Even though I'm technically on "suspension pending an investigation," I can't go back. Everyone thinks I'm a psycho. People I once considered friends are afraid of me. Given that there was a massacre at a workplace here in MA last December, it's only a matter of time before people express their unfounded fear of me and I'm out of the best job I ever had, all because of a rumor that I had no control over.Thank you for reading my post and I'm sorry that it's such a rant, but it just happened this afternoon and I'm still in shock.P.S. I went through my employee handbook when I got home and there are no rules about having firearms in your car in it, so even if I did have my shotgun in my trunk, it would not have been against company policy.
New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"[This message has been edited by chappsyny (edited 10-25-2001).]
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Comments

  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Much as I hate to say this, the next action you should be taking is to contact an attorney.
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  • bfairbfair Member Posts: 250 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My reply to those A$$holes would have been.Want to search my car get a warrant.Do I own any guns? None of your business.Now I'm calling my Attorney.Take this job and shove it!
    Home of the Blue Angels, P'colaSemper Paratus
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  • Mark IIMark II Member Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My suggestion is to contact the NRA/ILA and see what their lawyers suggest.
    "To meet with ill fortune is to meet with good fortune. To meet with submission is to meet an enemy."
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  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did not have the right to refuse to allow them to search my car. Company policy is that if I didn't let them search, I would be immediatly terminated.Since I don't have to go to work tomorrow, I think I'm going to go visit some attorneys.
    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
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  • 44rugerfan44rugerfan Member Posts: 11 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Mark, get ahold of the NRA and maybe even the ACLU.
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  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    YIPES ... and I'm moving to the Boston area in a few months! I'm like you ... I enjoy the time in the woods deer hunting.And I've been known to use the firing range from time to time.New Brunswick has the highest ratio of gun owners and licensed hunters in the world. Sounds like MA could be kind of wierd!Bonne Chasse!
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  • royc38royc38 Member Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Make sure your place of employment has signs posted about their firearms policy. If they don't have it posted there is nothing they can do to you legally. As a Security consultant we have work rules in place and lucky for us the General manager is a lifetime NRA member. You were right about the right to search your vehicle on company grounds. They CAN legally fire you for that. But they also should have given you a valid reason for doing so. I am betting that someone is out to get you there. Think about it, did you recently get promoted over someone lately? Or did you embarrass someone in front of the boss. This smells of someone slighted. Do a little investigating, maybe some friends have heard something. "Rumors" travel both ways. Good Luck. PS: Don't do anything silly in the mean time to paint a bad picture of yourself until this is resolved, Such as losing your temper or threatening anybody, or saying you will get even. These situations take time but I can assure you your accuser will be KNOWN shortly.
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  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Immediately get the best lawyer you can afford and sue! Your civil rights were violated and enough legal noise will probably get a nice settlement.
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Please keep us up to date on how this whole thing turns out. I'm sure none of us thought something that baseless could happen at work. You're experiences could be helpful to the rest of us if it looks like something like this is going to happen again.
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  • Matt45Matt45 Member Posts: 3,185
    edited November -1
    Yet another in a long list of reasons why I refuse to live East of the Missippi River. My stongest feeling is that you need to contact an attorney IMMEDIATLY. Without having knowledge of the specific type of company you work for or the nature of your industry I have the following thoughts:At the least you seem to have a case for defamation of character "I've been suspended from a job that I dearly love and work very hard at, and I just got off the phone with one of my coworkers who informed me that rumors are flying."As well as being physically intimidated apparently by the orders of your management," I don't know why the maintnance man was there aside from the fact that he is a VERY large man and I'm only 5'3"."And your civil rights may have been violated. In your employee handbook is there a provision that the company has the right to search for and sieze contraband? Is there a definition of contraband? Is there a specific mention of what the employer must tell you in regards to the search? Was your vehicle on company property?The central issue seems to search and siezure.This entire incident really P*&^%$# me off, and I hope that Nunn and some of the other LEO's around here "wiegh in".
    Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!![This message has been edited by Matt45 (edited 10-25-2001).]
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  • ED PED P Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Chappsyny,Before spending dough, I strongly suggest you contact GOAL, Gun Owners Action League. They are a Massachusetts Pro Gun Organization that are extremely familiar with Massachusetts gun laws.I am a member and have called them on several occassions with gun law questions. I suggest you cut and paste your post here, as it is well worded, and send it to them, or call them.As a fellow Gun owner in Mass who sits next to a new officemate who doesn't even think police should have guns I have made one or two jokes on the phone with fellow pro-gun friends about guns but have spent much time backpedaling and doing damage control as I was afraid he would complain to human resources and I'd lose a job I love. Ironic as he works on a missile system capable of shooting down dozens of planes at once, that he should turn his nose up at me for being a target shooter.Contact these guys, and give an honest and complete account of these events, I'm sure they will be very interested as they take a very active role in fighting for peoples gun rights in the crummy state of Massachusetts. www.goal.org [This message has been edited by ED P (edited 10-25-2001).]
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  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks everyone for the advice and support. I'm going to start calling around for attorneys tomorrow morning. I'll keep you all updated as the situation continues to develop. I don't want to give out their name because it's inevitable they'd find out, but the company I work for is a an extremely large biotech company with absolutly no firearms policy whatsoever. My guess is that they'll probably adopt one soon. Even if they had a firearms policy, I would not have violated it because I did not have a gun. The whole thing is just absurd.
    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
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  • ED PED P Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I just re-read your post, and it makes me angrier.This is as much a violation of your rights as if they singled you out because you were black, assumed because of this that you were more likely to be involved in employee theft, that they searched your car for stolen items, and even after finding none, put you on leave for suspicion of theft.contact www.goal.org
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  • njretcopnjretcop Member Posts: 7,975
    edited November -1
    While I cannot give you legal advise on another state's laws, I certainly can and do give you my support in this matter. It is outrageous and I agree with the others who advised you to contact the NRA and GOA for legal help. I believe you have a good case. We will all be watching this one closely, I'm sure. Best to you!
    Guns don't kill people, it's the bullets, stupidI am the NRA, the KABA, NJ Area Rep for the 2ampd, and the AARP :(Spadesfalcon@aol.com
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,078 ******
    edited November -1
    1. Start a journal. Write down everything, who was there, who did what, who said what. Avoid emotion.2. Get a good lawyer. Specialist in employment issues.3. Keep your head high. Go back to work if/when you are allowed to. I have been there and I went back into a hostile environment after 5 months of suspension. I was done wrong and I was not going to let the bastards win.Good luck.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This sounds like a case of "Profileing", not a real popular concept in a politically correct society....I'd make sure you use that word when seeking legal advice.
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  • stanmanstanman Member Posts: 3,052
    edited November -1
    44rugerfan,aclu?.... aclu?....ACLU???Cut it out man, you're killin' me here!!ACLU...... now THAT!... is funny.
    My wife?.........Sure!My dog?..........Maybe!MY GUNS??........NEVER!!!
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  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I gotta' agree with Stanman. Leave the ACLU out of this. Get an attorney. One that will work on a percentage of any settlement. If he thinks you've got a winable case, he'll take you on, if not he won't. IMHO (not being a lawyer, you understand) you've got a great case against the company. Of course if you win a settlement, you can pretty much kiss your job goodbye. They won't fire you immediately but they'll find a way to get rid of you AND cover their arses. Their's a certain amount of S--T we all have to put up to get through life, but that ain't some of it! Mudge
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,078 ******
    edited November -1
    IF these jerks do not apologize, you MUST express to the meanest lawyer you can find the HORRIBLE MENTAL ANGUISH you have endured as a result of this outrage.
    Certified SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of the General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the premier gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net Jesus is Lord!
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The aclu is the last organization that would defend a gun owner. They do not believe in the second amendment, and they do not believe you should own guns.
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Stanman, Salzo and Mudge. I agree. If it doesn't agree with their communist beliefs the aclu is out. They're a bunch of communists who are trying to use our very freedoms to destroy them.
    So many guns to buy. So little money.
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  • usmc2498215usmc2498215 Member Posts: 82 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Does the phrase "hostile working enviorment" ring a bell? You should find out how many other employees were subjected to that treatment, otherwise they are selectively enforcing their policy, which is no good. If iI were in the situation, I would get everyones name that was present during the interrogation, and search, then go out and find the absolute "Prince of Darkness" labor law attorneys. File suit against every individual present and who participated, the company, AND their shareholders!!! Contact the NRA/ILA, plus if you have a local news service that has a conservative philosophy, GO TO THE PRESS.
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  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hmmmm...Defamation, slander, outrage, breach of contract, punitive damages, etc. You will win this one. They had no policy on firearmsand the employee handbook is binding on the company. Do go to an attorney familiar with employment law. Good luck!!
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  • cowboy62cowboy62 Member Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I personally would never hire a psycho gun toting maniac like you!!!!See how they swayed my opinion.Really, sock it to these @$$holesGood luckCowboy
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  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Why in the heck would you allow ANYONE except a LEO with a warrent, search your vechicle?
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey fellow Granite Stater . . . I'll try not to let my intense personal animosity toward most everything associated w/ the People's Republik of kennedy affect this reply. The suggestions about GOAL & the NRA are apt. For attorneys, I would suggest you see if you can locate Al Rubega - he was the President of GO-NH for several years and is a former NRA board member. If he's still practicing in NH / PRk, he'd be a good start. You have all kinds of great points - physical intimidation, threats, etc. - which will make the company lawyers s$$t bricks when they start seeing affadavits. Unless the other parties lie (never happens, of course). So, you need to *very* calmly sit down **right now** and write out every detail while it is fresh in your mind. Where these people were in relationship to you when you were in the office and how close they were. What they were wearing for clothes, every word, every motion, every single detail you can. Because if you do go to court, a defense attorney will attempt to trip you up on such small details in order to discredit your recollection of the major issues. Make notes of everyone who was within view, within hearing, who saw any part of this. Also document everything you hear from co-workers. Ask those who are friends to do what you are doing - keep meticulous records . . . what they saw / heard at the time, what they see / hear in the future and in what contexts. Be sure to document, especially if it requires any medication / consultations, the emotional anguish you are suffering. If any former supervisors are likely to be supportive, try to speak to them in front of witnesses about your job performance, attitude, behavior at work (all potential points of attack) - personnel records sometimes get 'lost.' Record any negative comments made to you by third parties not present in the actual event (even better if they are not part of the company, from your legal viewpoint) which would demonstrate that this was not handled in a confidential manner. And absolutely, positively, be calm, be rational (think about how nice it will be to have their cojones - figuratively - to decorate your Christmas tree for years to come). The point about someone starting this for ulterior motives may well be the case, altho it may not be work related, but merely, as you originally hypothesized, a PC individual wishing to 'purify' the workplace. Whatever the cause, these people did almost everything they could wrong. It sounds like a script from an HR training film. I did 20+ years in manufacturing management and went to law school (although I am not a member of the NH and am not in practice). With a good attorney, you will own a big chunk of the company's assets.andersk - JFYI, MA is the westernmost county of Kalifornia. Same type of scumbag politicians and laws. There are a few good ppl there, but definitely a minority group. [This message has been edited by Iconoclast (edited 10-26-2001).]
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  • john wjohn w Member Posts: 4,104
    edited November -1
    Once you found out what was going on you should have called your lawyer and had him meet you there and start documenting every thing that was said AND THEN SUE THE SHI* OUT OF THEM
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would agree with Nunn. Keep a journal but be VERY careful how you word things in that journal. If rumors about your journal leak, they can subpoena that journal in court.
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  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The damage was done at the point you gave consent to the search, at the moment yourresponse must have to ask for a lawyer andpolice officers to be present if a forced search was to be enforced , the bad thing iswith the new anty-terror laws your rightsare worth the toilet paper they are written on , but as NOTHING was found you can suetheir "BUTTS" off...
    I judge Thee!, Not for what you are , but for what you say !
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  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ***UPDATE*** I just got off the phone with a coworker and was informed that the head of my department called an emergency meeting with all of the personell present and told them that things (me) were "under control." He also described the discplinary procedures that have been taken against me in response to the alegations. Based upon what my coworker told me, apparently the rumors surrounding the incident had grown so wild and psychotic that people were terrified, prompting this violoation of my right to privacy.On a possitive note, I have received a great referral to a local attorney so I can get that part of this whole mess rolling.
    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
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  • HerbyJrHerbyJr Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Goodluck...keep us posted.H.
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  • M.OpaliskiM.Opaliski Member Posts: 244 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Indeed, good luck with the situation. I'm sorry to hear of the mess in the first place, seems a shame when you or anyone for that matter is violated due to popular opinion.I am involved in something similar with the town that I live in but to your situation it hardly compares. Good luck pal ... stick with it and hold your chin up.Feel free to contact me privately if you would ever care to discuss the issue in depth. May have some advise, may not, an ear is there anytime though.*Edited for spelling
    Support your RKBA ... MatthewNRA Life MemberTalk Radio Junkie opaliski@hotmail.com TheFirearmsEnthusiast[This message has been edited by M.Opaliski (edited 10-30-2001).]
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  • Free N TXFree N TX Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Glad to see that you are getting a lawyer. (damn, did I say that????)I hope you are able to nail their butts to the wall and teach them a leason in what America stands for... FREEDOM!!!Talk to your lawyer about having a clause put in the settlement about job security for life. I worked at a major Fortune 500 company and there were several people that had their rights violated (all were different instances) and part of the settlement was that they had a job for life, meaning that there was virtually no way the company could ever fire them... They would have to either quit or retire. I know of two that were there untill they decided to retire.
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  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I only read some of the responses above and jumped down to reply. I hope you receive this one and don't already have enough info to not read this one. I agree that a lawyer is the first response, however, I would go for a HIGH PROFILE attorney in you area. You want someone scary to the company, second, I would not let even your friends at the company or your nieghbors know that you have done this because you never know what will get back to the company, you don't want them to know you are pursuing this. Second, contact a reporter on your local news station who does the "defending the little guy" features. Your first strike with media coverage can very easily embarass the company publicly as well as turn the tables to your favor. BEFORE any of this takes place, contact the NRA. They will provide legal help in these cases, it is your benefit for being a member (hope you are). If not, join, they will probably still help to further the preservation of the second ammendment and they love to crucify those who are non-supporters of the freedoms our forefathers fought and died for. If you can coordinate this strike to be simultaneous with all facets occuring at the same time, you may be suprised at how things turn out. Also WHEN, WHEN you get your settlement/retribution, insist on an apology by all those persons present that day, including the "garbage man". (thats not a dig at janitorial employees, just something to piss off the meathead) Insist it be part of the settlement and in front of all employees or you will be forced to file another suit for defamation of character.let me know what you think and if I can help in any way. JustinCollis@pobox.com
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