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Profiling

jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
edited May 2002 in General Discussion
To ensure we Americans never offend anyone - - - - particularly fanatics intent on killing us - airport screeners will not be allowed to profile people.

They will continue random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal Of Honor winning former Governors.

Let's pause a moment and take the following test.

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by:
(a)Olga Corbutt
(b)Sitting Bull
(c)Arnold Schwarzenegger
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a)Lost Norwegians
(b)Elvis
(c)A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a)John Dillinger
(b)The King of Sweden
(c)The Boy Scouts
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a)A pizza delivery boy
(b)Pee Wee Herman
(c)Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked,
and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a)The Smurfs
(b)Davy Jones
(c)US Military personnel, in uniform, with valid IDs, passport, & orders.
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver was murdered by:
(a)Captain Kidd
(b)Charles Lindberg
(c)Mother Teresa
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a)Scooby Doo
(b)The Tooth Fairy
(c)Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid who had a few sticks of dynamite left over from the train job.
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a)Richard Simmons
(b)Grandma Moses
(c)Michael Jordan
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a)Mr. Rogers
(b)Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c)The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain: "Mustapha the Merciless"
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands of people were killed by:
(a)Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b)The Supreme Court of Florida
(c)Mr. Bean
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a)Enron
(b)The Lutheran Church
(c)The NFL
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a)Bonny and Clyde
(b)Captain Kangaroo
(c)Billy Graham
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

Hmmm . . . nope, no patterns anywhere to justify profiling


I love freedom, cause a chained dog ain't happy. A southern born child living behind enemy lines in occupied territory
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Comments

  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A man boarded an airplane and took his seat. As he settled in, he glanced up and saw an unusually beautiful woman boarding the plane.

    He soon realized she was heading straight toward his seat. Lo and behold, she took the seat right beside his.

    Eager to strike up a conversation, he blurted out, "Business trip or vacation ?"

    She turned, smiled and said, "Business. The annual Sexual Education Convention in Chicago."

    He swallowed hard. Here was the most gorgeous woman he had ever seen, sitting next to him, and she was going to a meeting for sex education!

    Struggling to maintain his composure, he calmly asked, "What's your business role at this convention?"

    "Lecturer," she responded. "I use my experience to debunk some of the popular myths about sexuality."

    "Really," he said. "What myths are those?"

    "Well," she explained. "One popular myth is that African American men are the most well endowed, when in fact, it's the Native American Indian who is most likely to possess that trait."

    "Another popular myth is that French men are the best lovers, when actually it is the men of Jewish descent.

    We have, however, found that the best potential lover in all categories is the Southern Redneck."

    Suddenly, the woman became a little uncomfortable and blushed.

    "I'm sorry ", she said. "I shouldn't really be discussing this with you. I don't even know your name."

    "Tonto," the man said. " Tonto Goldstein. But my friends call me Bubba."
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And lets not forget who blew up the OK government building......young white male.

    And lets not forget who blew up mailboxes in a "smiley-face" pattern.....young white male.

    My point?

    It isn't that we should focus on Muslims, it is that we shouldn't focus on JUST THEM!

    Yes, young Muslim males are responsible for more bombings. So who do you think is going to do the next few bombings? It certainly won't be young Muslim males! It'll be who we least expect........85 year old grandmothers, etc.

    Think about it.

    Merc



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The truth about OK city was ....... oh never mind, there is none so blind like those who will not see.

    I love freedom, cause a chained dog ain't happy. A southern born child living behind enemy lines in occupied territory
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    jeeneyes,
    Oh.....I know about OKC...........but I'm going with the "official" version. :)

    Just wanted to add that our airline security STILL sucks.

    I flew recently (I fly quite a bit) and the idiots didn't even scan me with the hand wand when it went off as I walked through. I could have been carrying ANYTHING! They said "Ok, go ahead" thinking I'd already been scanned by someone else. The whole area was a mess.....no organization, no one in charge, etc.

    When I finally found the "supervisor" I chewed some *. :)

    Merc



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
  • jdb123jdb123 Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    so uh,........what exaclty happened in OKC bombing{sorry i was young then} i have only heard the "official" version myself.



    Edited by - jdb123 on 05/12/2002 15:57:00
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Saxon, Saxon, Saxon, such jests, you silly old thing. You know the gay troopers always, always wear pink helmets!
  • S&W ManS&W Man Member Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mercury - If you BELIEVE in the "Official" version of OK city, then I have some property that you need real bad and it is real cheap! If you are "going" with the "official" version, but DO understand the truth, then you are among the wise! Better to let them think they are doing something than to let them KNOW that they are not.

    jdb123 - If you want some of the TRUTH about OK City, contact me at 38spl@kconline.com and I will be glad to give you info and contacts as to where the truth CAN be learned.

    The second admendment GUARANTEES the other nine and the Constitution!

    Edited by - S&W Man on 05/12/2002 18:03:41
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My answer to all of our violence and crime problems is simple. An armed society is a polite society.

    I just wish I had a dollar for every gun I wanted, then I'd be a rich man.
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let's say that you had a young daughter and decided to take her to the Mall of America. It is a huge mall and small children wander. I'll bet everyone here was lost at least once during their early years. If you were to talk to your daughter about what to do if she got lost you would probably tell her to go to the oldest sweetest-looking granny in the place and tell her that she was lost. Why? Sweet little ol' granny is probably the least likely person to kidnap her. This is profiling. It is a reasonable self-defense mechanism.

    SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
  • john wjohn w Member Posts: 4,104
    edited November -1
    Hope the * had some flavor or whats the point of chewing it anyway!
  • beantolebeantole Member Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Muslim terrorist will be the cause of world war III.
    As to Oklahoma city, I think Timothy McVeigh did it but I am not really positive. The government lies a lot in this country.

    Bruce
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes highjackers "could be" anyone. But to ignore the facts and history, is a terrible mistake.
    Yes there have been white male bombers, however that was citizens, and they would only have been stopped if acquaintances had become alarmed.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
    edited November -1
    There will always be those who believe operatives within our own government blew up the Federal Building in OKC just to give them an excuse to go after us right wing gun nuts.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just to make it clear, I'm NOT against profiling......

    But profiling ONLY certain people is not only stupid, but plain foolish!

    We need to be vigilant against ANYONE who may do harm. Doesn't matter what color, age, or religion they are.

    People are freaks, sadly.

    Merc

    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So, Merc, what you're saying then is you're against profiling, right? I mean, anyone MAY do harm . . . .

    I am very much against profiling. Profiling is not "a reasonable self-defense mechanism". It is paranoia and xenophobia. If you feel frightened by all people foreign to you, you might need some prescription medication. I understand they have some real dandy ones on the market right now.

    Ids, weren't you recently "profiled" during a traffic stop by a redneck cop in OK, and all bent out of shape about it? I seem to remember you ranting about it here awhile back.

    DarkStar11
    "...But Mona Lisa musta had the highway bluesYou can tell by the way she smiles..."
  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Darkstar,
    No, I'm not against profiling when it comes to an airplane I'm about to board. :)

    If it is someone driving down the road, and they are stopped because they are brown or whatever, that is a different matter to me.

    I'm certainly not xenophobic.....I've probably traveled more than most people here.

    I also have many Muslim friends, which I doubt very few people here can say.

    It sucks to be them right now. :(

    My friend Saqib flew to Washington DC recently, and had no problems, or major hassles, thankfully. His dad Anwar, (who happens to look JUST LIKE Saddam Hussein, unfortunately!!!) flew recently, and was hassled constantly.

    HOWEVER, Anwar wasn't complaining about it!!!!!

    He told me "If I have to get searched many times to make people feel safe, then it is ok with me"

    He handled it far better than I would have, I think......


    Funny thing about my Muslim friends........they have more "patriotism" than most of my white friends! (Most have moved here in the last 15 years.)

    Merc



    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Merc, I agree with you. But what you are saying here --

    quote:...profiling ONLY certain people is not only stupid, but plain foolish!

    We need to be vigilant against ANYONE who may do harm. Doesn't matter what color, age, or religion they are.

    People are freaks, sadly.

    -- is that anyone ought to be subject to the same amount of screening as the next guy, as ANYONE may do harm. I agree. All people are equally dangerous. Regardless of skin color, religion, etc., or driving down a road or boarding an airplane or a bus.

    The second half of my reply was directed towards Idsman75, especially since he has been a recent subject of profiling; in his own words:
    from http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14567
    quote: I haven't found out how many county or Hi-Po's there are in that area but I do know that Oklahoma has executed 15 people (including 3 women) in the last 9 months. I figure nobody is going to get the benefit of the doubt in that state. I'm sure my experience resulted from the out-of-state east-coast license plates that were on the vehicle and my 7-day * hair growth complemented by my perfectly shaven head.

    Now is that profiling, or paranoia of profiling? Either way, he seems to think he was profiled.



    DarkStar11
    "...But Mona Lisa musta had the highway bluesYou can tell by the way she smiles..."


    Edited by - DarkStar11 on 05/13/2002 01:41:45
  • austin247austin247 Member Posts: 375
    edited November -1
    What's funny is that on September 1, 2001, it became a criminal offense in the State of Texas for a LEO to use racial profiling. Then, after September 11, we were basically told to profile those of middle eastern descent.
  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just curious, how's that going to play out when someone of middle eastern descent is arrested in TX and they cry "racial profiling" caused the traffic stop that lead to arrest?

    DarkStar11
    "...But Mona Lisa musta had the highway bluesYou can tell by the way she smiles..."
  • austin247austin247 Member Posts: 375
    edited November -1
    My way of figuring is, that since they haven't repealed the law, I'm gonna make sure I have probable cause to stop or detain them in the first place. If the law is on the books, I'm not going down because someone told me to do otherwise. The way the law is written, race can be used as a factor IF there are other circumstances, i.e., we are looking for an assault suspect who happens to be a minority, and near the scene of the assault we see a minority matching the description. Otherwise, I'm ok as long as I stick to the probable cause/reasonable suspicion circumstances they drilled into my head in the academy. If someone cries "racial profiling!", that makes them the victim and the LEO the defendant, and the burden of proof then rests on whomever is doing the prosecuting.
  • DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good deal, glad to see y'all aren't left hanging.

    DarkStar11
    "...But Mona Lisa musta had the highway bluesYou can tell by the way she smiles..."
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dismissing the concept of profiling is ignoring the laws of probability. Police have arrived at where to look empirically.
    It's more productive to pursue a population with a history
    of a problem than one without. For example it's more likely to find a higher level of violent criminality in the Black community than the white or the Chinese or the Korean or the Japanese or the Filipino or the Vietnamese or the Polish........etc or any of the other minority groups in America. That fact can be resented but not denied. The way out of the group stigmatism is to change behavior not to try to ignore or supress data. The term profiling is a Liberal coined term, a name calling technique and we have bought into it.
    Respect and acceptance is earned not bestowed.
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    About four years ago I was profiled and pulled over by a member of our township's new regional centurion force. When I asked why I was pulled over 200' out of my lane the young centurion said there had been a series of breakins in the area and I did not fit the profile of a local resident. He was right as I was driving a 15 yearold car and not a new BMW, I was wearing old farm type work clothes and not the latest in LL Bean casual wear, and my wrist watch was a Timex and not a Roulex. Well, he was doing the bidding of the city/suburban transplants on the Township supervisor board who want to keep the low income types out of their new neighborhood. I had a nice talk with the young officer about the profile stop and let him know that other longtime residents would not be so understanding and to lose the aggresive attitude and reflector sunglasses. I don't have a prblem of profiling as a security method but it was the implementation of the method that bothered me. If this young officer would have stopped my neighbor, a longtime farm owner and law abiding citizen, in the same manner as he did me there would have been an unneccessary altercation with an officer down.

    Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
  • concealedG36concealedG36 Member Posts: 3,566 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Profiling is good, as long as it is applied fairly (in other words, if white guys that look like me start flying planes into buildings I will expect to be checked more carefully before getting on a plane).

    As stated above, it wasn't the white guy who commited the single largest act of foreign terrorism on the U.S. It was a Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40. Sorry.

    I don't care who is offended.

    PC=BS.



    Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To try and quote on officer friend of mine," profiling when used the right way is an effective tool, but when profiling is used for other agendas it then becomes the target of lawyers and politicians who need to make a name for themselves."

    There are hundreds of examples of profiling that works, there are just as many bad examples, then there are the ones who was arrested and charged with a crime who use "profiling" to escape prosicution.

    I have been "profiled" before and yes it was agitating at the time it happened but to think about now, I don't blame the officer and the sales clerk for doing that. I have tattoos and had long hair, looked like a punk, got profiled at a gun store while looking at a handgun, then made the clerk eat his words when I produced a carry permit. Got profiled for having a rifle hanging in the window of my pickup, cop saw tinted windows and the gun and pulled me over, saw the hair and tattoos and you know what happened from there.

    I feel if I had been in thier shoes I would be suspicous also and I hold no grudge.
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Profiling works! Beach
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Profiling works fine.

    It's just the target of the profiling that people are squealing about.

    I guarantee you if Caucasians were being racially profiled and stopped/questioned/searched more, no one would shed a tear for us.

    We've got it coming for all the evil the white race is responsible for, after all....

    It's just a plain and simple excuse for people to grouse. It has nothing to do with the act of profiling itself.

    And, like has been said before, when Caucasian men start blowing up buildings in the name of Allah, and when Caucasian men become responsible for the majority of the violent crime in the US, then I'll just have to accept some profiling and deal with it.

    This isnt an esoteric excuse for cops to hassle people. The hard evidence speaks for itself.

    PS- You forgot one, Jeenyes.

    A commercial airliner was nearly blown out of the sky when _______ attempted to detonate plastic explosives smuggled in his shoes:
    a)Mahatma Ghandi
    b)a disgruntled circus clown
    c)a lifetime member of the NRA
    d)a Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,495 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is a necessary evil we will all have to live with....
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The mere fact that the people who object to the profiling can do so publicly, vociferously and without fear of retribution keeps our civil statutes reasonably fair and equitable. Who, other than the anti-abortion faction makes more noise about rights than we 2nd amendment proponents?

    So, profile away, because as beach said, it works. But don't tell those being profiled to shut up about it. We need their dissent.

    Clouder...
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    "...it's more likely to find a higher level of violent criminality in the Black community..."

    huh?!
    PUH-LEASE! Any moron knows you're more likely to find a higher level of violent criminality in 'POOR' communities.

    "And, like has been said before, when Caucasian men start blowing up buildings in the name of Allah, and when Caucasian men become responsible for the majority of the violent crime in the US, then I'll just have to accept some profiling and deal with it."

    Nearly all Serial Killers are well educated, white males between the ages of 20 and 40. That covers well over half the members on this forum. Now do you want to be pulled over, questioned, and insulted every time you go out just because you fit that description?

    Pass the sheets, grab the rope and light some fires let's kill them violent n*ggers!


    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.

    Edited by - thesupermonkey on 05/13/2002 16:00:08
  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,495 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good points Monkey, I agree with what you are saying but you might want to tone it down a tad....Not trying to give you a hard time but the N word really needs to be changed....JMHO....
  • joeaf1911a1joeaf1911a1 Member Posts: 2,962 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree that "profiling" works. It is made up on statistics of
    occurances by groups. It is not 100 percent but what is? We
    all "profile" in everyday life. It is why one steers clear of high
    crime areas, high priced gun stores, and reads "feedback" when buying
    on Gun Broker. Simply statistics.
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I didn't use it to be offensive. It was said to make a point. You're right though, swearing is definitely not suitable so I altered the previous post. It just bothers me that some members, for whatever reason, bare animosity toward people they've never been exposed to. A lot of good white/black/hispanic/asian(and other) soldiers have fought for and died under our flag. It's aggravating to hear these men mocked and likened to the criminals.

    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.

    Edited by - thesupermonkey on 05/13/2002 16:27:00
  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Super: You are right about serial killers and the profile you just alluded to works. You just made a case against your argument. A profile along with intelligent implementation is a great tool.
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got stopped four times the other day and searched before flying.
    First stop because I was wearing a Smith Wesson tee-shirt. Second stop due to my camo bandanna. Third stop due to me having a large ball of twine in one hand and finally the wooden sticks wound up in bright colored paper. Sheeesh! And I was just headed out to fly a kite. Just jok'n.

    How bout the profiling that's going on in this forum. You know big bro's reading our post and putting each of us in micro chip marked
    "hazardous to a polite society". We own guns, therefore we must be a threat. We are grounded in firm moral beliefs [most of us] so we are a threat. We disagree with folks but can still live peacefully with them so we're a threat. We express our ideas because something in our history tells us we can but when we do we're labled homophobes, racist, people full of hate, and so on. So we must be a threat and the profiling continues.

    "Join the Baby Fur Seal Club and take a swing at life"
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    96harley....very nice posting! You just might have hit on something. Beach
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How many of you ever ben to a strange place and had a bad feeling? How many of you ever been to a big city, go lost and wound up somewhere you just didnt think you should be? How many times have you been somewhere and seen a group of blacks or mexicans standing on a corner late at night then reached over and locked the door? How many times have you seen somebody wearing in style "gang clothes" and had thoughts that wasnt nice? How many times have you avoided someone on the street or not gone into a store because you saw someone you didnt think was nice?

    If you answered to any of those saying "yes I have seen or done that", you my friend have profiled someone. Every dang single one of us has profiled someone because of how they look or race. Then some of us sit here and condemn profiling when those persons cannot honestly say they never done it.
  • thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Stereotyping and profiling are two different things. Just because I keep my hand on my knife while walking past some hispanic guy who looks like a thug doesn't mean I label all hispanics as thugs. Get me?

    Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
  • blazeblaze Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I cant freakin believe this, I agree 110% with Bullz, very well said.
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