In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

anyone with experience with lots of different guns

Walt NunleyWalt Nunley Member Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
edited November 2001 in General Discussion
First I will start with some background.I went shooting today.I shot a Bersa .380,it shot real good only one jam and after i cleaned it (the guy it belonged to had never cleaned it)it performed flawlessly for 100 rds not a hiccup.Why does Bersa have a bad rep?Shot a p-89 ruger 9mm.was very impressed with it,it was a real easy shooter.What are the differences in a ruger and say a sig or an hk that justify a $250 difference in price.Shot a glock model 23 and could not hit the broad side of a barn with it and the thing jumped in my hand like a wildcat.Not trying to offend any of you "Glockies" out there (thats a new word isnt it-"Glockies")but i was more accurate with the bersa than i was with the glock was i aiming wrong??My sig 226 wore them all out as far as accuracy and easy shooting.Finally any input as to the reliability of Kel-Tec firearms,thanks for sifting through my jumbled thoughts Walt
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • OrphanedcowboyOrphanedcowboy Member Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whoops dang.......Get up, plug keyboard back in, rub aloe on elbows for rug burns, Did I read what I think I just read, A Bersa outshot a Glock..........I feel dizzy
    Orphanedcowboy@msn.comMember ~Secret Select Society of Sauve Stylish Smoking Jackets~
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First of all, I'm not going to even dive into the Bersa Vs. Glock Vs. H&K Vs. Sig issue. My hip waders are still on order.As far as Kel-Tec reliability is concerned I can only draw from what I have read and from what I have shot. SWAT magazine did a story on the Kel-Tec P-11 about 12 - 18 months ago. They praised it for reliability right out of the box. It isn't pretty and it isn't a freight train (no +P loads) and it isn't going to last a million rounds. However, most backup guns are shot minimally at the range and carried for that moment of truth for when they are needed. I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot your back up but I think you get my drift. I bought a Kel-Tec for a friend and for a family member. I shot the hell out of them and they ate all ammo that I fed them. I fed them Winchester SXT's, Silvertips, Remington Golden Saber, UMC pinking ammo and some other cheap stuff. It all came off without a hitch and without a flaw. Kel Tec makes a decent gun for the price and it's reliable from what I've experienced.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • timberbeasttimberbeast Member Posts: 1,738 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a P-89, which I love, but that's because I'm so used to it. Very reliable, but not a super accurate handgun. For defense within 30 yds, I know I wont miss the torso....I had the opportunity to shoot a friend's 1911 last August, had a trigger job, and I could not believe how well I shot! Fired a Glock once, several magazines, it was, if I remember right, a .40 SW, and it was okay, but didn't feel right in my hand. Have fired many Walther P-38's and loved them. Fired a couple of old Lugers, and I couldn't hit a mountain from 6 feet! Just my two cents.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    Walt,I've had experiences with all of the guns you spoke of except the Kel-Tec. You really need to have Judge Colt weight in on them. The only experience I've had with Kel-Tec's were through a friend, And that really doesn't count. The price difference between the Ruger and the others is mainly due to the Ruger being a full production gun. The parts are manufactured and then assembled. Very little "fitting" is done during assembly. The truth, very little is needed. They hold the tolerances close enough that they function well as assembled.The Bersa is a simular situation, but they do a little more fitting. The newer Bersa's have corrected their heat treat problems and increased the quality of their cast parts. They are a good gun overall.Sig's and HK's are well built guns. Just as any other manufacture, some models are better than others, but for the most part, they are high end guns. Do they justify the price difference? That's a personal call. I lean towards higher end weapons, but the price doesn't always reflect quality.I think the Ruger's are better guns than the price reflects. I think the new Colt's are nowhere near the quality that the price would imply. I think Glock's are junk waiting for a kb to happen, and even without the quality issues (of which there are many more than just kb's) I don't like them.If you looking for a good lower price gun, I would go with Ruger first, and the Bersa next. Higher end guns, I prefer the Sig, S&W, Beretta, Kimber, or others along those lines. These were not in order, of course.My suggestion, try them all and choose what fits you and doesn't malfunction. You on the right track.
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JustCJustC Member Posts: 16,056 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think anyone you talk to, who has owned one, will agree that the Ruger product is well worth the money and probably more than you pay. I have 4 and they are all well made. I do also have an HK and Sig, and can tell you undoubtedly that they will outperform all but match pistols which are of course in a different arena. However, if you buy an HK or SIG competition pistol, there is no need for any other. The bersa pistols have become a better product and can resemble a berreta design. logic would dictate that if you use many of the features of a top end product, you will end up with quality yourself. As for the Glocks, I have heard of several incidences of them firing without being handled, one was a police officer in my local police station. I DON"T TRUST EM. Give me the SIG, HK, or Beretta long before the Glock. I would rather have the Ruger also. Kel-tec has also come a long way in the past decade.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TED GARTED GAR Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I KNOW MANY A POLICE OFFICER THAT USED THE BERSA AS A BACKUP GUN. IT IS A-OK, BUT IT IS A BACKUP GUN.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • JudgeColtJudgeColt Member Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I see my reputation as a Kel-Tec lover preceeds me! The Kel-Tecs are inexpensive, not cheap. I have many guns and choose a Kel-Tec as my carry gun for the size categories in which they fit. After the Mini-Revolvers comes the P-32, then the P-11. Nothing in their size categories comes close for the combination of weight, size and magazine capacity. Mine are reliable and I trust them with my life. Some need work out of the box, so thoroughly break in any new pistol (Kel-Tec or others). The KTOG owners group has great information on the pistols.Comparing a Kel-Tec P-11 to a SIG P-226 or Ruger seems almost like apples and oranges to me. In my opinion, the pistols are so different in size and weight that they are not directly comparable. If you want a service pistol, buy a SIG if you are comfortable with no safety. I agree Glocks are difficult to shoot for some people, and they too have no safety.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • PelicanPelican Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Smith and Weson Model 10, five screw. They work - every time. The guy that gets shot don't know the difference.Cost - I have to agree that as a rule you get what you pay for you will reach a point where you start to buy name.Some "junk" guns work just fine. Some 30 years ago a couple of models of RG's passed the H. P. White lag tests while none of the Colts did.When it comes to customer service and standing behind a product, Ruger is hard to beat.If my behind was on the line - I'd just soon have an issue 1911A1 as anything else.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    "Glocks are junk?" No way. Please justify that statement.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    lowrider,Had a Glock 19. Went back for factory repairs three times in 16 months. As far as I'm concerned, that will qualify any gun as "JUNK" to me. That's not even speaking to the kb's.If you've got one you like, I'm happy for you. I will NEVER own another one!
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • smooth_operatorsmooth_operator Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been in the shooting sports for over a decade and by no means am I an expert however you might want to think about the following.FIT: Each gun is made with a distinctive design and ergonomics. No firearm has a universal fit, each model will better fit a specific shooter.ACCURACY: Well...an experienced shooter will shoot better than a rookie even with gun of lesser quality. It all comes down to your abilities. The tests printed on magazines are made on a ransom rest most of the time and is used as a general comparison.PRICE: Not that there are "cheap" firearms out there...there are some which are poorly made. You get what you pay for (except for Rugers which I think is a freak of the nature because of their reliability and affordability) If the firearm you have does not feel right in your hands, it will hamper your accuracy; and if you bought a firearm because it costs less,well... just what did you expect?BTW, For the love of god, don't compare a .380/9mm/40sw against each other...thats like comparing a Honda, a Ferrari, and a Hummer. no dice.
    Life is the leading cause of death.Everything else is just a contributing factor.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    dheffley: I'm not sure I'd condemn the entire company based on one lemon of a pistol.I bought a new model 17 in 1989 and have shot the hell out of it without so much as a hiccup. Very accurate, very reliable, very well built. I have friends who also swear by them and know cops whose law-enforcement agencies use nothing but Glocks.I'd think if they were actually "junk", the word would've gotten out by now.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gunnutgunnut Member Posts: 724 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will ad some fuel to the fire, I have owned several glocks, and have never had any problems with them at all. I have however had one colt 1991 that was purchased new that had to be sent back, one s&w 686 that had to be sent back, and the point being that EVERY gun manufacturer produces a lemon once in a while. Is this to say that I think the colt or the smith's are a piece of junk absolutly NOT. Yes their are manufactures that are known to have little quality control, and others that seem to have a great reputation however most of them are just a model away from producing a failure. That being said, if you produce so many fine weapons "glocks" than a bad one is bound to get out every now and then. Just ask a friend of mine that has sent his SIG back twice for the same problem...
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    Lowrider and gunnut,Look guys, I agree that any manufacturer can produce a lemon. I do however, think there are lots of bad press out on Glocks. I am not the only one who has had problems. I do not want to belate the subject, but three times to the factory gunsmiths, and they couldn't fix it. I had a S&W sent back for a cylinder alignment problem, and it was fixed first time. I sent a Ruger P90 back because it kept dropping mags. They called the dealer and he issued me a new gun at no charge. Glock would not even tell me what was wrong with the gun. The only way I found out anything was because the dealer let me look at the paperwork he received each time they sent it back. He wouldn't let me have a copy of it, saying he would loose his dealer status if he did. It has also been well documented that Glock will not release information on their malfunctions. It has also been well documented that they will fire without being in battery. Then, of course, there's the kb's. I don't trust the gun or the company. If you do, that is your business. I just make it a practice not to deal with a company that is not what I consider above board with its customers. I also won't purchase a weapon that has had that many chances to be made whole and wasn't. I want to give you your right to your opinion, but I want the right to mine. It looks like you either love or hate Glocks. I hate them! I've been shooting guns for 47 years. The Glock was absolutly the worst gun I've ever had.
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    You won't get any argument from me about everybody's freedom of choice. It's your money, buy what you want.I like Glocks. I own two of them, models 17 & 26, and I'm planning to buy a compact .45 in the next few weeks.My brother is a Beretta fanatic. Now there's a sorry-assed pistol.Lowrider, waiting for the flamethrowers to start.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    Low, we have to find some common ground here. I own 4 Beretta's, and they are one of the best guns in my collection. I also love my S&W's. Never had a malfunction. They fit my hand like a glove, and I can hit better with them than I can with any other automatic in my collection. Oh well, I know there must be something we can agree on!I like women! How's that?
    Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Nah. I'm gay.KIDDING. I'M KIDDING.I like Ruger single-action revolvers.I like Taylor guitars.I like Harley Davidsons.I like chicken-fried steaks.Do we have anything yet?
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dheffleydheffley Member Posts: 25,000 ✭
    edited November -1
    We hit it off on everything except the guitar. I'm a Gibson/Martin man. But I like Taylor's.I feel much better now.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Walt NunleyWalt Nunley Member Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    how come all the real good guitar players play FENDER STATOCASTER
    Submarine Sailor,Truck Driver,and very bad typist.GO RUSTY #2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    I had a Strat up 'till last month. I wasn't cut out to play electric.However...Some "real good" players (Hendrix, SRV) played a Stratocaster, but the real, real good guitarists play instruments like Benedetto, D'Aquisto, D'Angelico...You know, those fifty thousand dollar guitars.
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • YankeeClipperYankeeClipper Member Posts: 669 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have taken more Antelope with more different calibers than anyone else. Send me your list and we will compair.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • 7mm_ultra_mag_is_king7mm_ultra_mag_is_king Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A fellow by the name of Massad Ayoob (who is smarter than all of us put together lol) will tell you it is not the accuracy at 30 yards that counts in close combat( as he has already proven most gun fights with handguns take place at less than 12 yards) if it goes bang when it is supposed to and delivers a respectable projectile to it's target at 12 yards it will work. my preference of respectable projectiles is winchester silvertips in .40 sw. If you can conceal it comfortably and shoot it well it is the best gun you can carry. I tried a Ruger p89 and p90 and came to the conclusion that it is just to dang big!! I'm a little fellow at 5'11" 185#s and a ruger p90 in .45acp looks like I have a shotgun in my belt! I carry a cheap little Lama .40sw, it cost $200 new and I can hit what I need to hit with it at close range. If I need a $1000+ plus gun to shoot a 1" group at 30 yards I will just have to shoot whatever it is I am going to shoot with my trusty little 7mm.
    when all else fails........................
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.