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Submarine Question...

RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
edited April 2002 in General Discussion
I've always enjoyed watching those submarine movies...question: When depth charges are dropped in the movies they always appear to be exploding fairly close to the sub, yet the sub is hardly damaged.....how close do they really have to be to do the job? Does the shock wave from the explosion assist the deeper pressures in cracking a hull?
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Something I always wanted to know, those depth charges and other things that go boom underwater, do they bring fish to the top??
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    Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not a expert or a submarinerEverything being close is hollywood effectsThey work by over-pressuring the hull and the deeper the sub the better they work. There is also the concussion effect that loosens the joints and fittings causing leaks.Can you imagine sitting on the "throne" if the valves between you and the water let go ? That'll clean you out quick LOL
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    jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At the start of WWII, the USN had no adequate depth charge and adopted the British designed Mark 6 and fitted an American-designed hydrostatic fuze. During WW2, the USN concentrated on increasing the depth at which a submarine could be attacked and made design modifications to increase the sink rate of depth charges. A successful depth charge attack had to be extremely accurate to destroy a German submarine. The hydraulic "water hammer" effect created by a 300-pound depth charge would destroy the submarine if detonated within 10 yards of the hull, 30 yards away only damaged the hull. Later in the war the magnetic impulse detonator (Mark 8) was introduced, which triggered the depth charge when it was in close proximity to a submarine. American Destroyer Escorts carried about 100 depth charges on board.In 1943 the Mark 9 was introduced. Designed to sink fast and detonate at up to 1000 feet, the MK 9/14 was aerodynamically shaped, lead-weighted and finned. Although the explosive payload was reduced to only 200 pounds, the greater hull pressures at extreme depths rendered the submarines more fragile, thus reducing the need for large explosive payloads. The British chose the opposite path, equipping their DEs (actually Captain-class frigates) with two 3,000 pound Mark X depth charges in December 1944. The unique Mk X depth charges contained 2,000 pounds of explosive and were intended to combat the newest deep-diving German submarines.The use of rear drop racks was a useful strategy in WWI, but by WW2 submarine technology and acoustic sensors had progressed significantly. U-boats were was able to detect engine and cavitation noises of pursuer's propellers and the splashing of their depth charges. The early Mk 6 depth charges took between 50 and 75 seconds to sink to 600 feet (the maximum U-boat depth). The newer Mk 9/14 depth charges were designed to sink faster but still took between 26 and 41 seconds to sink the same depth. This lag time allowed the U-boat captain to navigate away from the danger area. During WW 2 Captain Johnnie Walker, RN developed a technique called "creeping". Recognizing electric powered DEs were much quieter than diesel-powered boats, especially when running below 6 knots when the propeller cavitation noises were greatly reduced, the DEs teamed up to kill U-boats. The "pusher" DE would churn around making noise and actively searching with sonar. A second DE would "creep" along quietly without sonar, receiving direction and depth instructions from the "pusher". When the creeper was properly positioned, it would drop depth charges, hoping the U-boat was paying more attention to the "pushers" position and noise. If the U-boat detected the splashing noises of the "creeper's" depth charges, he would assume they belonged to the "pusher" located several hundred yards away and representing no threat. The British used the creeper technique with great success with the lend-lease DEs, which they called "Captain's class Frigates".The United States abandoned depth charges after World War II, preferring torpedoes and ahead thrown proximity contact weapons.
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    BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Ahead thrown proximity contact weapons?So like a hedgehog?The idea if I recall correctly, was to launch 20 or 30 at once in the same area and cover a large area with contact charges. And they didnt blow up unless they hit something, so you'd know if the sub was there or not.
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    beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullseye...exactly!!! Well known photograph circa 1958 at Pearl Harbor parking lot when a hedgehog salvo was inadvertantly fired showed the damage they were capable of delivering!!!!! Lots of really messed up cars!!! And of course if you missed no BANG. Beach
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    Matt45Matt45 Member Posts: 3,185
    edited November -1
    Show us the photo Beach!!!!! Y'know the thousand words n' all!!!
    Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!
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    BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    See beach? I do know some things Not many things, but some things
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    Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DEPTH CHARGES ARE OBSOLETE NOW.THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS IF YOU GET CLOSE ENOUGH TO USE IT YOU ARE ALREADY FISH FOOD.
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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    LowriderLowrider Member Posts: 6,587
    edited November -1
    Is it true that those submarines have screen doors?
    Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
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    PelicanPelican Member Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Y'all wanna see sumpin neat. The govment auctioned this off: http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=29270
    The Almighty Himself Entrusted the Future of All Living Creatures to a Wooden Boat.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -"Audemus jura nostra defendere"
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullz:The question has never been what you know, son, it's what ya don't know. Now that little tidbit about the hedgehog, I'd not seen that before. That prompted a little looking and now I know something I didn't before, so thank you.I sincerely wished you had started off on a different foot. You are obviously well read and smart, you could have contributed a lot to any forum you chose. But you let something, and I don't know what it is and won't speculate, but something, get in the way of your common sense and you come across as a BSer. Now if there's one thing us old guys (and I'm not as old as ya think, I just have a lot of miles) can recognize, it's a BSer, for obvious reasons, we've seen it before, in every color, texture, and shape there is.I thought I might steer ya back but ya set yer teeth on the bit and bowed yer neck. And I find that sad, extremely so. We, yourself and everybody on this board, could have benefited so much more had ya come across straight. I wished ya had.Clouder..
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    FUBARFUBAR Member Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What can he do to redeem himself?
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    *:I'm not in the redeeming business. I was just pointing out a waste of talent.Every wadded up a sheet of paper and then tried to smooth out the wrinkles after you decided you needed the sheet. That's our friend's problem, hard not to see the wrinkles.Clouder..
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    daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    Went to a Navy museum in Fredricksberg,Tx. and saw some depth charges. The one I was looking at had some type of adjustment knob on the top with #'s on it. It appeared that when you set the desired #, this would allow water to enter the device fast or slow. I would guess the amount of water that had entered the device would be equal to the depth of discharge????????
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    RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I call it spirit Clouder. He took everything the old farts had and came back fighting! Us old farts CAN learn from the young if we listen. You and I of all people know that we don't know it all.Rosie the tired old fart
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    Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SEE HOW DYNAMIC THIS BOARD IS?A TOPIC LIKE MILITARY HARDWARE HAS EVOLVED INTO A DEEP AND MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION ON THE COMPLEXITIES OF INTERPESONAL RELATIONSHIPS ON THE WORLD WIDE WEB.....UHHH I THINK
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clouder, have you ever noticed that his intelligence also comes with a big dose of arrogance. Thats why I get frustrated with him, you can't tell him anything and he takes the writings in some of those magazines he reads as gospel. I have learned alot on here and generaly don't speak up on subjects I know nothing about, I'm more content to stand back and learn but it seems whenever a subject comes up he runs to his books and starts quoting what he reads in them and tries to pass it off as knowledge on his behalf.
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    RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rosie,What's the age where one becomes an "old fart"?....My kids definetly think I'm already there, Mrs Rembrandt won't voice an opinion for fear of being implicated herself, and I think I've still got 20 years left.....
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    An 'old fart' does and offers no apology. I don't think it's an age thing.Rosie:Met very few poeple that, if I'm around them a while, can't teach me something.7MM:The problem with arrogance is, it's generally a substitute for confidence. And that has to be a complicated contradiction to live with.From submarines to life's lessons. Ain't it a wonderful place.Clouder..
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    218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Don`t most 18 year olds come off as know-it-alls?I think it was clouder who said it best:"that`s our friend's problem".Now that I`ve quoted clouder,and that can be as dangerous as playing with fire,I suppose it would be pushing it to quote Rodney King......218
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    DarkStar11DarkStar11 Member Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    whiteclouder,Not that this has anything to do with the thread, but as an aside, my Grandfather was apprenticed in Germany prior and during WWI as a furniture maker. His first lesson was wadding up newspaper and smoothing out the wrinkles continuously until it was soft enough for his master to wipe his * with.That's a true story. You're post just reminded me of this and I thought I'd share it with y'all. [This message has been edited by DarkStar11 (edited 04-01-2002).]
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    Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    aw c'mon guys this is a subject i know a little about and your gonna just let it die?? oh well back into obscurity
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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    beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Walt....out of respect for your service under the water I brought it out of obscurity one more time. Now tell us a fast attack story!! I'm tired of the boomer stories..."There we were tooling along at 3 knots the closest ship was 80 miles away..." Beach
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    cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,435 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys, Could we please get off this "age" thng?
    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
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    BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    The age thing isnt getting us anywhere.We're all Republican men here (as far as I know)!The sum of our common features is far greater than the differences in our personal faults.Try and decipher THAT, willya! Gordian knot time, baby!
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    Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    beach,id tell ya but id have to..........i was a boomer sailor but we used to go mod-alert and get to do some cool stuff.dont really know what to say except that the russians dont know how close they came to some serious dancing in the hurt locker.soviet submarine tracked for 4 days and they all of a sudden turn and flood their tubes,we were getting ready for a snapshot return salvo when a very astute sonar operator noticed it took a long time to flood and equalize their tubes,empty tubes take alot longer to flood and equalize. they were shooting "waterslugs" which we do all the time for preventive maint,or watchstander proficiency...close!sometime ill tell ya 'bout the time another boat did something really bad around a carnival cruise ship!
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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    Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok Walt, suspense is killing me, let's hear it!
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    Submariner .Submariner . Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    an unknown submarine in an unknown ocean was tracking an unknown cruise ship(last post said carnival out of an attempt to help identify with a party barge)coming out of an unknown port somewhere in intl waters.the modern submarine uses a simulator of the control computer of a torpedo to allow fire control tech's to input real firing solutions into a simulated weapon.this looks like a real torpedo to the fire contol tech and the f.c.computer but their is no torpedo in the tube.the officer of the deck wanted to do some on watch training for his f.c. watchstanders so he tracked the cruise ship and plotted several firing solutions into what he thought was the weapon SIMULATOR. in actuality he was feeding firing solutions into a mk 48 WARSHOT.the torpedomen had shifted weapons on an earlier watch and the OOD's tube status board had NOT been updated.the OOD decided to get the torpedoman of the watch involved and shoot some waterslugs at the "hostile" cruise ship.when the order came to flood and equalize the tube the tmow realized the tube had flooded WAY too fast and prior to reporting the tube ready in all respects reported this to the OOD the OOD had the tube drained and vented and had the tmow open the tube and they were about to send a whole lot of hurt at that cruise ship.the mk48 torpedo will blow a destroyer in HALF it actually sinks in 2 pieces,so what it would have done to the thin skinned cruise ship is horible to even contemplate
    Truck Driver,Submarine Veteran,Rusty Wallace fan,and piss poor typist E-MAIL WNUNLEY@USIT.NET
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    RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Submariner,My cousin has served on attack subs for some time and just recently took command of his own this last year. He was telling me about an incident where a new sailor was purging some sewage lines and somehow pressurized the wrong thing....sewage shot back through the lines and came out of the head in the Captains quarters, sprayed it everywhere....needless to say when the sub returned to base the individual was transfered off the sub.
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    OtomanOtoman Member Posts: 554 ✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Walt I have a buddy that was on a "Pig Boat" in the Early to mid 70's and he said if you ever went into Naples Italy you would have been under his control. What ever that means....
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