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Education

thebutcherthebutcher Member Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
edited January 2002 in General Discussion
As students return to schools all across the country, perhaps a discussion about education would be appropriate. From a capitalist point of view, some would argue that the purpose of public education is to provide training to enter the work force. The basics of reading, writing and arithmetic are taught to provide a foundation of which to build on once a person graduates to on-the-job training. However, the democratic argument suggests that the purpose is to promote an informed citizenry. Therefore, an exposure to history, sociology etc benefits society as a whole because people learn about their roles and responsibilities. Obviously, both arguments merit equal consideration and should continue to be pursued. Further, no one can dispute that each and every child in this country should receive the educational services provided by the public. The most pressing question today, however, is how does government ensure the quality of educational services?

The public school system today continues to fail at educating our children both in terms of job training and citizen awareness. The most powerful country to ever exist on planet earth continues to lag behind other countries when it comes the very basics expected of this institution. The reason for this is because of the bureaucratic non-incentives consistent with government waste. Teachers are not held accountable as a unit manager would be held accountable for their unit achieving objectives in a private corporation. They are also not rewarded financially for the success of their students when it comes to test results. And the biggest benefactor of all, private enterprise is not required to reinvest in an educational system that provides free training to future employees. The time for privatization of public education is long overdue. We as a country need to finally get serious about training and educating our future citizens. It is time to use corporate property tax along with personal property tax as a means of funding schools. Educational facilities from pre-schools to colleges and universities need to be converted to entities of private enterprise whereby an education is crafted as the finest product available to United States citizens. Along with this transition would be the disciplinary environment so desperately needed in our schools today. If a co-worker or boss were struck by an employee, they would be fired and possibly jailed. The same code needs to exist in schools today. Furthermore, a greater effort needs to be made in determining where one fits in the skills and abilities matrix. Spending more time and attention to the criss-cross of what one enjoys doing with what one is good at doing would make a profound difference on our society. Education is a public good no less or important than national defense, environmental quality etc but it is the means of providing that good that most importantly needs to change.

Comments

  • thebutcherthebutcher Member Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So I couldn't find the thread about education that was going...I was talking to my "little brother" last night. He's a freshman in high school and he is doing really poorly. He told me that he is doing sixth grade math. Really distraught about it. He asked me why he would be allowed to go to the next grade if he couldn't cut it, and be put in "retard classes" as he called them. It was the first time I really understood how important these accountability tests are, and that passing kids if they can't cut it doesn't do them any favors...
    The definition of an "expert":An "X" is an unknown quantity and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.
  • edharoldedharold Member Posts: 465 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If they pass over a kid before he has mastered one level he will probably never have the chance to make it up and you will have a limited functioning adult. Its just too bad that they look on it as "retard class". Everyone has to learn at their own rate, as it is now they usually have to try to teach the average student and who is average. I too was weak in math. I was a "older student" when I entered college and had to take a bunch of remedial math tutoring before entry. And I really feel for the kids that come out of high school not being able to read. I did some volunteer adult reading tutoring for a while. I found hardly anyone who was incapable of learning to read. In some cases one teacher had not done their job and the system let them down.I'm not sure standardize testing and "teaching to the test" Are a great answer either, but I don't know one.
    "They that would give up liberty to obtain safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"Benj. Franklin, 1759
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    How 'bout Mommies and Daddies spending time teaching their kids, reading to their kids, making sure their kids' homework is completed satifactorily, checking the progress being made at school, giving a damn.
  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well said Dr. Pig. The English classes where they tried to teach me to parse a sentence and all that kind of stuff never made a bit of sense to me. Neither does the qwerty keyboard. On the other hand I can solve math problems in my head. Time/distance problems?I can start a 500 mile trip and tell you when I leave my time of arrival within 15 minutes. Nothing special, I just can do it.
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mrs. Mudge is a Special Ed. teacher. Her Bachelors is in elementary education and her masters is in speech communication. She has taught Special Ed. at almost every grade level through 8th grade.Some of the stories she tells are enough to make you want to cry for the kids. Some try so hard but just don't have the capacity to learn some things. For those kids, she will bust her butt to help them. The others, (those who have the ability but not the desire to learn) are simply a waste of her time and talent. Right now she has 1 (yes, one) student. The kid has Downs Syndrome, is in 7th grade, has an IQ of 45 and 3rd grade skills. He has reached his potential insofar as education goes. Every Special Ed. teacher in the administration knows this. This kid should be in a maintenance and life skills program. His mother, however, is in denial and insists that he remain in a regular classroom. The mother is a very powerful advocate in the county and everyone is afraid of her. Therefor, Mrs. Mudge is stuck, babysitting this kid, when she could be applying her skills in a classrom of kids who can improve themselves. The payscale in the county is outstanding so it's easy enough for her to rationalize what she's doing. It would be far more satisfying for her if she were actually teaching.BBB...I too have always been able to do math in my head. Add, subtract, multiply, divide, that is. Algebra.....forget it.Mudge the circumscribed
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS![This message has been edited by mudge (edited 01-16-2002).][This message has been edited by mudge (edited 01-16-2002).]
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hated arithmatic, but when I got to algebra that all changed. I enjoyed working the problems just like working a crossword puzzle. The higher I went the more interesting it became & I like that there is not just one way to solve a problem. Anyway that works is correct. I detest learning by rote, but when I can figure things out thenlearning becomes fun.I also hated history when it was just learing names & dates. Then I got a teacherthat taught us about the people & it turnedeverything around. Too many teachers don't really love the subject they teach. When you find one that does it makes a world of difference.
  • thebutcherthebutcher Member Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guys, I really appreciate your sentiments on this subject. It was really hard to hear him talk like this. I never had a hard time in school and I have trouble understanding what he is going through. I have been helping his sister study for the SAT. She is so dyslexic that she can't read a passage in a half-hour.By the way, their father is not in the picture, he got into some legal trouble, started drinking, and then started beating the kids up. Their mother does her best but she's got eight to worry about. Some of us guys help out where we can. See their oldest brother is my best friend from growing up and he is stationed down in Bragg- just got back from Kosovo- and I figure if he's getting his a** shot at on my account I can tutor his brothers and sisters, you know? Do you have any other ideas for helping him out? Any particular study plans that work or how to get him a tutor through school?And Mudge- Please thank Mrs. Mudge from me for the work that she does. We need more like her.
    The definition of an "expert":An "X" is an unknown quantity and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.[This message has been edited by thebutcher (edited 01-16-2002).]
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Butcher.....Believe me, your support goes a long way toward helping this kid. I hate to keep spouting off about Mrs. Mudge but she's said that when a kid knows that someone is taking an interest, they'll try harder. She's found that a little praise goes a long way. Even if it's only to let the kid know that you're aware that, even though they haven't succeeded, they're doing their best.I salute you for your efforts. Teachers are our most important people. Even those who don't have credentials.Mudge the admiring
    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • turboturbo Member Posts: 820 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Teaching should focus on the basics, when the kids have mastered these, then they can perhaps teach them some of the other nonsense, they teach in schools today.Why is it most kids today don't have a clue who, the frist president of the uS was?, or what that capitol of Montana is?Bilingual edcuation is fine if you live in another coutry, and plan to go live in an english speaking country. Same with ebonics.Experience dictates that those who are from another language speaking country, never really lose their ability to communicate in their own language, just because they were educated here.And whoever said it, is right, parents need to get involved to insure children are doing their homework.
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    Butcher,Way to go. We definetly need more like you.
  • ndbillyndbilly Member Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mudge - You don't look Jewish.
  • thebutcherthebutcher Member Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SaxonPig- I passed your message along to my friend. It really made him feel a lot better about himself. Thanks.I am so proud of this kid. He walked into his SPED teacher's office and said he was tired of making excuses for himself and that he wanted to do better and he needed her help. He signed up for tutoring after school, plus the tutoring that we are giving him at night and is going to go to summer school.Thanks to all for your posts.
    The definition of an "expert":An "X" is an unknown quantity and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure.
  • 223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Good points, turbo, but you forgot about all those morons who can't use commas correctly.
  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ndbilly -ROFLMFAO! Good 'un!
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    Did somebody,say,somethin,about not using comas correctly?.218
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am another who could not do algebra. It described a completely imaginary world to me, though with a lot of study and taking the "retard" class (2hr. per day) in summer school I got through and was prouder of that C than most of the A's I got. Geometry was different, it described the real world and made pefect sense to me so I did not have to work hard for the A.If you live in New Mexcio Spanish makes perfect sense Turbo, depends upon where you are.Butcher, keep up the good work. If you have a college or Jr. College near by, you can likely find a tutor among the undergrads majoring in math, English or whatever. May cost a little, but then again they may have a volunteer program.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am another who could not do algebra. It described a completely imaginary world to me, though with a lot of study and taking the "retard" class (2hr. per day) in summer school I got through and was prouder of that C than most of the A's I got. Geometry was different, it described the real world and made pefect sense to me so I did not have to work hard for the A.If you live in New Mexico Spanish makes perfect sense Turbo, depends upon where you are.Butcher, keep up the good work. If you have a college or Jr. College near by, you can likely find a tutor among the undergrads majoring in math, English or whatever. May cost a little, but then again they may have a volunteer program.
  • thebutcherthebutcher Member Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    He Dog, that is a great idea. I bet I could get him a tutor for less than $10 an hour and we have nothing but Colleges in Boston. Thanks!
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