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Suspected BG Shot Dead on His Front Porch

smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
This happened in Richmond last friday, Im not up to 100% on exact details but I will do my best:

I think this man was wanted for a series of armed roberies. Nine Police Officers approached him on his own front porch with thier weapons drawn on him. One of the Officers went in the house to check it out. They ordered him to remove his hands from his pockets and when he did not remove his hands one of the Officers shot him in the chest and he died. The man was not armed but was suspected to have been armed. The Officer thought his life was in danger and fired his weapon to protect him and his fellow Officers.

I know it is hard to guess what and how it really went down but I try to look at it from as many views as possible. I feel that it is possible that they could have had the wrong guy and he got scared and froze and the next thing you know there is an innocent man dead.
It could also be possible that he could have had a pistol in a jacket pocket pointed at them.

On one hand I think "innocent til proven guilty", a man is shot for not removing his hands from his pockets. On the other hand I say great, there is another bad guy dead and gone. If he had robbed me at gunpoint and I had half a chance I would definetly blow him away in fear of my life.

The local radio talk show host talked about this on the air and was all for it. He said how dare anyone question the Officers actions. Most people that called in agredd with him. A few did not.

This is not a Cop bashing and please don't anyone on hear do any of that on this thread. I have the upmost respect for all Police Officers, especially those that are pro-gun here on Gunbroker.


BNRVA@aol.com

Comments

  • Jody CommanderJody Commander Member Posts: 855 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Odd isn't it, they teach so many things to prospective police officers in the classroom, and afterwards the FTOs teach even more, but at no time is any time spent on Psychic thought transference. You would think some citizens that do have the ability to know the future and never make a mistake would take time from their busy schedules to volunteer with the department and train these men and women to know when some dumb-* with his hands in his pockets becomes deaf to instructions to remove them from same, doesn't REALLY have a gun. I am not a cop,or violent criminal, (I do have some outstanding Library fees) but if I was the cop, and I am sent to a house where I am told a bad guy lives, and the purported bad guy does not do exactly as I say when I say I am going to be VERY tense, I have a family that would like to see me come home tonight, and bad guys too often prevent this happening.If I am a bad guy or suspected of being a bad guy, and lots of armed tense cops show up at My door, I am going to do everyting they tell me to do, because bad guys have familys too. If the suspected bad guy does not follow instructions, and some cop shoots him-I will understand, I do not approve or condone, but I understand, I see a dead bad guy and a cop with a unresolved shooting incident on his back, all because some fools testoterone peaked at a bad time, too bad.
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    A few years ago, when I lived in Bradenton Florida, the police were sent to the residence of a black man who was wanted for distribution of narcotics and attempted rape. They surrounded his house quietly and with a battering ram smashed, in his front door and entered. Imediately after entry they shot the suspect in the living room of his home. The man had stood up surprised as the officers entered the room. The officers seen the man had a gun in his hand and believing he was a threat, nuetralised him. The man died on the floor of own home, holding a stripped 1911 frame. It seems he was setting in his living room cleaning his handgun and it was completely disassembled. The man they were after had also aged and changed colors as he was now a 56 year old retired white veteran. After the dust settled the police officers discovered they were on the wrong street. You know what the realtors say, location, location, location...Everyone makes mistakes but some are just more serious than others...

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    Seems to me, the police need to change their tactics.
    I know if someone knocked my door down and began yelling all at one time, it would be hard to know who they are and what their intent is at that few seconds of confusion. The police need to know that the occupant is being put in a very tense moment, and without thought will use survival instincs to protect his/her property and life. It's a two way street- both sides don't want to be killed! These things don't have to happen. Why couldn't they stake the guy out and wait till he's in the open, then rush in?
    Too many mistakes and accidental deaths on both sides.
    I thank all the police officers who put their lives on the line and while we sleep are doing their best to protect property/lives ect..
    The officers do what they are taught, but some of this is too overboard. I've never been in a sittuation of confrontation (thank goodness) so I'm talking from my own thoughts.
    It's like a doctor once told me-"we can't make mistakes" But oh yes you do! seylavee!
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    When in training - years ago - for residence search. I and 3 other members of the search team were shot 4 times before we got it right. We never once had to shoot the perp/probationer, after that. But there were only 2 or 3 times I was ever in a real situation during the 5 years doing house checks on home arrests inmates (if you want to call them that). I do admire an officer who can go into a blind situation and keep the action to a minimum. Only once in my life did I have to tell someone to remove their hand from their pocket, luckily I had the biggest officer I have ever seen right beside me. The kid did have a knife and was very confused (known mental condition),but he complied without incident.

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
  • michael minarikmichael minarik Member Posts: 478 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wonder who would pay the price if the officers had been killed in the "wrong" home and the home owner believing it was a home invasion by thugs...what if the downed man's wife had a gun and killed the 'invaders' after all it was the wrong home? I am not sure but the scenerio of more than one person have a gun pointed at me and ready to end my life would not justfy me even blinking....his hands in his pockets with a pocket pistol ready to take out 9 officer's: he must be one damn helluva shot and quicker than Spider man...with these tactic's no one is safe!
  • gskyhawkgskyhawk Member Posts: 4,773
    edited November -1
    first off let me say I'm not in any way bashing any officer,, having said that there is something about the story that doesn't make sense to me, he wrote nine officers approached him on his own front porch with weapons drawn and one of the officers went in the house to check it out ,, did this officer have to pass the wanted man? and if so why would he do that before the guy was under control? how and why would one officer think it was ok to leave the guy on the porch and the next officer shoot the guy down for not taking his hands out of his pockets? can some one help me understand this? thanks
  • smokinggunsmokinggun Member Posts: 590 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.timesdispatch.com/frontpage/MGB6FIQJ22D.html

    Police officer indicted
    City detective faces charge in slaying

    BY MARK HOLMBERG
    TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER Jun 05, 2002



    Detective David Melvin

    For the first time in recent history, a Richmond police officer will stand trial for killing a suspect in the line of duty.

    Detective David Melvin has been indicted on a charge of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the May 17 shooting of Verlon M. Johnson, who was unarmed.

    "We appreciate that the police have a sensitive job to do," Richmond Commonwealth's Attorney David M. Hicks said yesterday. "Our job is to make sure justice is done. Everyone is under the same standard."

    Melvin allegedly fired one shot into the chest of Johnson, an alleged robbery suspect, while Melvin and eight other officers were trying to arrest him for firearm violations. Johnson was inside brushing his teeth when police arrived at the front door of his South Richmond home that night, according to reports.

    Johnson died shirtless, with a toothbrush apparently still in his mouth, on his front porch while his wife and children listened inside.

    His family, some of them in tears, listened to the surprise announcement yesterday outside of the John Marshall Courts building.

    "I'm not enjoying anybody's calamity," said V. Johnson, Verlon Johnson's father. "I just want justice served."

    The involuntary manslaughter charge indicates Melvin shot accidentally, "contrary to [his] intentions," Hicks said.

    If Melvin indeed fired accidentally, that would contradict statements made by police officials after the 10:40 p.m. shooting outside of 3424 Deerwood Road.

    Johnson initially came out of his house with his hands up, then thrust them into his pockets as if going for a gun, police officials said.

    "Detective Melvin challenged Johnson several times to raise his hands," according to the official police version. "When he didn't comply with the officer's instructions, Detective Melvin, believing the suspect was armed, fired one shot from his service weapon."

    Lawyer Steve Benjamin, who is representing the Johnson family's interests in the trial and an expected civil suit, lashed out at police officials for the spin they put on the case.

    "Everything the police department has done to avoid accepting responsibility has hurt the family," Benjamin said. "They've treated the entire affair as nothing more than a public relations problem."

    Police officials are standing firmly by Melvin.

    "Normally, the Richmond Police Department does not comment on the outcome of a grand jury proceeding," said acting police chief Teresa * in a prepared statement. "But in this instance we are compelled to make a statement. . . . Every day we ask Richmond police officers to respond to the most troubling, complex and dangerous situations in our city. Every day these officers are placed in harm's way. Such was the case with Detective Melvin on the night in question.

    "The Richmond Police Department supports Detective Melvin now and will continue to support him during this investigation."

    Melvin, who has been on administrative leave since the shooting, appeared before Circuit Judge Walter W. Stout III. He was released on his own recognizance pending a preliminary court hearing July 1. It was unclear last night whether he would remain on paid leave.

    Johnson was the fourth person shot and killed by Richmond police since last June. The other three were armed.

    King Salim Khalfani, executive director of the Virginia State Conference of the NAACP, believes the police department used a "blue wall of silence" and a "smokescreen" after the Johnson shooting, and previous ones.

    He said that's why a citizen's review panel is necessary to watch over the police.

    With the NAACP's backing, City Councilman Sa'ad El-Amin has proposed that the council appoint a five-member Citizen Police Review Board.

    The panel would consist of city residents and investigate complaints about the police. As part of its investigations, the board would be able to interview witnesses and hold closed-door meetings

    The council is scheduled to vote on the matter Monday. Councilman G. Manoli Loupassi opposes the measure, saying it would politicize the police department and damage its morale. He noted that the department has an internal affairs division that investigates complaints about officers.




    BNRVA@aol.com



    www.vcdl.org


    Edited by - smokinggun on 06/05/2002 17:10:46
  • Big Sky RedneckBig Sky Redneck Member Posts: 19,752 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    First off I have nothing but respect and even some admiration for LEOs but there is a couple "policies" that bug me. If I shoot somebody because I was scared he may do something, I go to the ringer if that person was unarmed. Even if that person is in my home unarmed and I shoot him I'm up the creek. Now in a situation such as this, will the officer recieve the same treatment as a civilian? Probably not, he may get suspended or even lose his job, but maybe not much more, it will most likely called "in the line of duty". We have drug problems here and I praise the efforts they use to get rid of them, I even smile when a doper gets "dispatched", but why can LEOs get away with or suffer less of a punishment than the rest of us? The people around here call the arrest teams execution squads because they have shot a few people on raids, now we never had a raid on the wrong house before in this area but I know of some in other areas. Here is another thing that bugs me, if I'm at home in bed and I'm awaken by noise downstairs, I jump up grap the shotgun and get in the hallway to make sure whoever is there does not make it to the kids rooms and find some Bad * looking dude dressed in a black ninja outfit with a gun, I shoot him or attempt to shoot him I will either be blown away instantly or arrested for protecting my family. Now the cops get a lecture for going to the wrong home, maybe get some inhouse punishment and thats it. but if I shoot "ninja man" and live thru the ordeal, I'm placed in prison for shooting a cop.

    How is this all justified? LEOs wonder why some of us get scared around them, this is why. A cop with an itchy trigger finger may ruin your day and not end up in prison, but if I protect myself or family it's time to make friends with bubba. God forbid I ever protect myself from a cop who mistook me for someone else and drew on me and scared the bejesus out of me. I feel if a cop comes to my home and makes a mistake, he is fair game just like a burglar. Also if a cop shoots his gun he should be held to the same laws a civilian is.

    Now I know sometimes prior knowledge of a known suspect warrants certain actions but does that mean that they treat everybody like a target?

    As far as not listening to the cops, I had a deal with a Customs officer in Detroit MI at the Embassador(sp?) bridge. In 1993 I crossed back into the USA at that bridge, it was the first time for me to do this and I was nervous. I had also been given bad info by my dispatcher at Perfetti Trucking and did not have the proper paperwork. When I got to the booth the Customs guy got an attitude real fast, I had long hair and my Tattoos was showing. He told me to pull off to the side, walked up to my truck and drew his gun on me, ordered me out of the truck and drilled me with a million questions and had the gun on me the whole time. Needless to say I needed fresh underwear and I forgot my name. While he was yelling at me it got worse, the more he yelled the more I got into major tunnel vision and loss of hearing. All I could see was the gun and did not hear half of what he was saying. I was scared! Now, if I twitched the wrong way and did not respond in a timely fashion while he was freaking me out, was that a good excuse to shoot me? To them it would be! Two more agents came over, one cuffed me while the other two TORE my truck apart, when they was done they uncuffed me and sent me on my way, not even an "we are sorry" from them. I remember that day well and it still comes to mind sometimes when dealing with the Police, Driving truck has it's moments with the law. Now you see how I reacted to one gun, how about a whole bunch of them pointing at me with all the ciops screaming at the same time?? Since they are authorized to shoot, I would be dead. Cops create mass confusion and a very threatening atmosphere when they get together like theat. Watch cops sometime, I don't know if they are showing off for the cameras but watch how they act when a group of them makes an arrest, it's maddening! Does it take 10 cops with guns drawn to arrest somebody? Do they all have to yell and scream like that? They wonder why some people try to run or do not listen to orders, IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE SCARING THE * OUT OF THEM!!
  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ditto 7mm

    I love freedom, cause a chained dog ain't happy. A southern born child living behind enemy lines in occupied territory
  • groundhog devastationgroundhog devastation Member Posts: 4,495
    edited November -1
    If the gov't wants to take my guns, then take them away from the gov't first!!! If you and I have no way to defend ourselves then we are not free anymore. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely!! I don't know who said it but he was right!! GHD
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