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Questions prompted by Josey/"5 rules of conceal an

daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
edited June 2002 in General Discussion
Question-1. You witness a man with a gun standing outside a vehicle shooting the occupants inside the vehicle and they are all most likely dead. The actor starts walking away from the scene, can you--
A. shoot him on the spot?
B. confront him first to stop and drop his weapon and only shoot him if he threatens you with his gun?
2. If he has dropped his gun after the act, and is walking away,can you--
A. Shoot him?
B. Confront first, and then use only force or deadly force to prevent him from getting away?
________________________________________________________________________

Question-2. Someone has sprayed you in the face with mace, can you--
A. pull your gun and use deadly force (since you are incapacitated)?
B. wait till they show an act of deadly force against you afterwords, then use deadly force.(this is a scarey option!)
*Note- the act was not an accident and the actor is a stranger.
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Comments

  • Fep1990Fep1990 Member Posts: 632 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my personal opinion: question 1: call 911. If the guys points the gun at you. shoot him. other than that Get what info you can and let the police handle it. if he is leaving the scene.go help the victims. part 2 of #1. same answer. Question #2: Are you in Fear of your life? It boils down to that. can you see good enough not to shoot an innocent person? Each state and county will view this in a different way. In Washington and Oregon, you must be in immediate fear of your life or another's life to use deadly force. A Question that was posed to us in our CCW class in Oregon: You see someone with a gun or knife, How close do you let them get to you before you would fear for your life and shoot them. Most ansered 15-50 feet. We had one lady say 300 feet. She was so fearful abouth all situations posed to her, that she did not pass the class, due to the fear of her panicing and shooting some innocent person.
    just my rambling and my .02 worth
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Question #1 Part 1.
    I have no way of knowing if this is a killer or cop who stopped some bad guys. I would observe as much detail as possiable and call the Police.

    Question #1 Part 2.
    Make Citizens Arrest with the will to Kill.

    Question #2 "Someone has sprayed you in the face with mace, can you--
    A. pull your gun and use deadly force (since you are incapacitated)"?

    Could I or Would I? You bet your * I'd shoot him.

    I'm not trying to answer these questions legally correct, this is just the way I would handle the situation.


    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well you next place of residence will include a roommate by the name of Bubba.
    If you are going to carry, you have to educate yourself on the legal aspects of deadly force, and not go by "what you think".
    Otherwise you will place youself in a cell with Bubba.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • nunnnunn Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,083 ******
    edited November -1
    In #1 I would cover and challenge. Any failure on the part of the assailant to do as told would get him full of holes.

    #2 I had already decided this one after being sprayed with pepper in training. I found that I have about 5 seconds before my eyes clamp shut and stay shut for over an hour. A bad guy can do mean things to a blind man in an hour. During that 5 seconds I will be finding my attacker and doing everything in my power to kill him.

    And in neither case will I ever get to meet Bubba.

    SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I am assuming you are posing this question to non-LEO types. Does a lawfully-armed non-LEO have the right to stop a fleeing killer? That one would be hot in court. I will not use deadly force to protect anyone other than myself and those that I love deeply. I would pick up the cell phone, dial 911 with a description of the killer and his vehicle.

    #2 I would go down to my knees protecting my vitals and place one hand on my gun and try to prevent it from being drawn by anyone but me while I dial 911 on my cell phone. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I accidentally shot an innocent while I was blinded by OC spray. That is how I was trained as an MP. Drop, put your hand on your gun and call for assistance on the radio.
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  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Alpine;

    I've already been in Jail with Bubba twice. Bubba is afraid of me.

    I also still have my CCW and right to buy guns, FBI gave me a little trouble two months ago, but I got to pick up my AK47 legally.

    I don't have much of a reason to Live.
    That makes me a Very Dangerous Person.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you have been down that road twice, I would move to a state that doesn't have a three strikes law. Cause the third time will take away you freedoms for life. I don't think the Bubbas' that I have seen would be afraid, and if you enjoy shooting and guns then you do have a reason to live.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • n4thethrilln4thethrill Member Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    idsman75

    that all sounds good man but i can see that you've never been sprayed with mace no matter how much training you've had in about five seconds you'll forget you ever had a gun so forget about procedure and shoot the sucker.

    you can be king or street sweeper but everyone is going to dance with the reaper
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Actually I have used it on intoxicated and violent individuals and have been sprayed with it--a few times. I've had a few classes on its use and its effects and was sprayed after class. I know exactly what I would do and have practiced doing it AFTER being sprayed with it.

    Edited by - idsman75 on 06/30/2002 02:58:41
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  • n4thethrilln4thethrill Member Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well you must be one tough man i volentered to let the local police department squirt me with the stuff in a training camp and i can tell you that after about 5 seconds a gun would have been the last thing on my mind. even then isn't wasn't ovet it burned just as bad when i went home and took a shower, i am around 240 lbs now but at the time i was sprayed i was 320lbs and it put me on my knees a 140 lb cop handcuffed me i guess that you were just born with the bark on ( and i wasn't talking about them rubbing some on the bottom of my eye) they sprayed me with the bottle -guess i'm just not tough enough to be on your force-you guys must have teethed on a superblackhawk

    you can be king or street sweeper but everyone is going to dance with the reaper
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  • AlpineAlpine Member Posts: 15,092 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have been sprayed with that stuff several times. Enough to cause me to stop carrying the old stuff a long time ago. The new spray is more effective, but it is still possible to get semi used to it.

    "If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
    ?The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.?
    Margaret Thatcher

    "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
    Mark Twain
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  • idsman75idsman75 Member Posts: 13,398 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    n4thethrill--If you want to call me a liar, then come out and call me a liar. Then I will give you the correct phone number for the Fort Lewis, WA Provost Marshall's office and you can ask them. At least have the te$t!cul@r fortitude to call "BS" if you think I'm BS'ing.

    Side note: There are people who are genetically prone to be affected less by chemical deterrent aerosols. I had a red-headed female on my team who could stand there and be literally hosed with the stuff and still stay on her feet. I know what it feels like and I know exactly what you mean. Maybe the old adage rings true: The bigger you are the harder you fall? I think that's the one I was looking for.
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  • MercuryMercury Member Posts: 7,836 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ids is right, everyone reacts differently to it.

    A friend of mine who got sprayed wasn't really bothered. But the fallout from him being sprayed made me sicker than a dog!

    Merc

    NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!

    ****************************************

    "Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
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  • daddodaddo Member Posts: 3,408
    edited November -1
    O.K people- I'm looking for a legal answere.
    Thanks for the input- but no fartin around- whats the legal action we could take!!!!
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