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FeedBack Etiqutte. How is positive feedback "earned"

salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
I recently purchased something non gun related on another very popular auction site.Its been ten days since I sent payment(which was sent the day auction closed). I sent an inquiry to the seller asking about the status of my merchandise. He sends an e-mail saying it was sent out today via priority mail, and his e-mail also had the message, "POSITIVE FEEDBACK EARNS POSITIVE FEEDBACK."I would think that the fact that I sent payment so quickly, and that I kept him informed on the status of our transaction via e-mails through out the transaction would "earn" positive feedback. The fact that I leave him, the seller, feedback is a requirement in order for me, the buyer to get feedback, seems a bit ridiculous. I would think that he should leave feedback first, being that my end of the transaction(buying, paying)was handled first.Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, but I am thinking of sending him an e-mail back stating that I "earned" positive feedbak by paying him as quickly as I did, and sent him e-mails so he knew I was in on this transaction, and not some deadbeat. And that me leaving positive feedback for him should not be necessary for me to "earn" positive feedback. What do yall think.I usually do not get all worked up about this, and leave feedback for the other party, regardless of whether he was the buyer or seller, or who should leave feedback first. I just leave feedback, and if they do not leave feedback after a certain time, I send them a friendly reminder. But this business of me having to "earn" feedback by posting feedback for him is really rubbing me the wrong way.
Happiness is a warm gun
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Comments

  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm with you all the way on this issue.
    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
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  • William81William81 Member Posts: 25,352 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo, I understand your frustration. When I sell an item, I always leave feedback on the day I ship the package or within a day or so. There is usually feedback posted for a buyer before they even receive their package.If the buyer has sent the payment within a reasonable time frame and answered emails, then he has possitive feedback coming. I have been lucky and have only been stiffed once in several hundred auctions I have had here and elsewhere. I agree with you that feedback should not earn feedback...It should be given when the deal is completed. Both sides should take the time to end the deal that way. JMHO
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So am I Salzo, it really kind of looks like "Scratch my back or yours doesn't get scratched." I had to go to a seller and remind him to post feed back for me. It was positive, but without the reminder, he would not have bothered. Let him know how you feel, before posting any feed back on him.
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  • wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,105 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I send my confirmation e-mail I just state that I leave feed back. I don't specify good or bad. I try to be prompt and courteous to sellers and have had good luck with one exception. I had top bid on an item and the seller e-mailed me the shipping and price figures within one hour after the auction closed. It all went well and I gave her timely positive feedback. I waited about two weeks and e-mailed her and politely asked her if I had done something to upset her because I hadn't received any feed back? You should have seen the list of excuses, I'm working two jobs, my husband is sick, Iv'e got kids in school etc. I thought it was kind of strange that she could find time to send the bill within the first hour after auction close.I had positive feed back within an hour after my e-mail.
    "It's great to be great, but it's greater to be human." Will Rogers
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  • RancheroPaulRancheroPaul Member Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    On the "Big Auction" site, I have a feedback rating of 347 as of a moment ago. Curiously, I have left over 800 feedbacks for others. It seems if you are counting on feedback for being the Buyer and sending prompt payment, you have to wait until you post feedback first. If you post feedback for getting payment from a Buyer who is prompt, they don't seem to find time to post for you. It's become a joke. With the feedback count I now have on the Top Two Gun Auction sites and the "Big Auction" site, I no longer care whether I get any or not. I have became one who won't post any feedback until I am given some.....sorry, but the "bad apples" cannot mess up my Cheerios anymore with this approach. If done right, the system works, but if you want anything broken, screwed up, misplaced or just plain s--t on, give it to a human to do.......I like Dogs and Kids BEST!!
    If You Can't Buy a Pair, Get a Spare!
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have encountered a very few sellers who don't post feedback until I, as the buyer, have done so. I don't know why this is. I suspect in some cases it is because they want to be sure I'm happy and aren't going to take potshots at them. In other cases, I think they believe it is purely quid pro quo . . . and it is not, salzo is 100% correct (or should I say "right?" ). There are other cases, and as a seller I have been guilty of this, when in a flurry of auctions, it is overlooked until much later. When this happens, I post the feedback if I can and send a note of apology to the buyer. As a seller, I find I get roughly 60% of the feedbacks I "earn." Some can't be bothered, some post one feedback when they buy 15 lots, some forget. I try reminding folks once, politely, then forget it. Finally, there are a few who simply refuse to post feedback. *Those* I remember. And if they are sellers, I've been known to send an eml later on stating that while I'm interested in lot #X I also remember their gratitude for my past business and figure someone else may appreciate it better.
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  • bhayes420bhayes420 Member Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I won an auction here a couple months ago. Tried for over a week to contact the seller. Never heard from him. Finally, posted very negative feedback. Well guess what. I got an e-mail reply that afternoon. Said he was sorry, death in the family, horse ran off, etc, etc. And since I had now heard from him would I PLEASE remove the negative feedback. Wrote him back and said, "Sure, I'll be glad to remove it as soon as the gun gets here." He had a fit. Wrote back and said that as long as I felt that way, he just wouldn't feel right doing business with me. After stewing over it a while, I did remove it (it was a gun I REALLY wanted), and he shipped the gun. NEver posted any feedback when I received the gun. But it did ruin my "belief" in the rating system. WAY too much manipulation of it to be really accurate. After being here for for several months, I only deal with a few dealers that I have personally found to be reputable, ratings be danged.
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  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Having not yet tried to sell anything at auction, I have only posted feedback on sellers. I see that sellers seem to rely on positive feedback, and when I have honestly left negative feedback, they just slam me in their responce..trying to turn everything around, as if it is my fault that I didn't get what I paid for...Frankly I could care less what someone has to say against me as a buyer..If a seller wants my money after I win a bid, I don't think he will be too concerned about a small percentage of neg. feedback. After all, no matter what, you just can't please them all. What really tiks me off is when a seller can't wait more than 24 hours after the close of the auction to get his money...I bid because I want something...not because I just want to string some guy along and watch him squirm!!! The rules here allow a five day contact period right?And as far as etiquette...Is it acceptable for a waitress to stand over your shoulder after dinner with her hand out for a tip? If it is well earned, then it is granted...
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~[This message has been edited by travelor (edited 03-22-2002).]
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Feedback is optional. Therefore, it gets misused by sellers who want to assure they don't get "negged." You are right. A buyer has fulfilled his end when his money is in the seller's hands. At that point, the seller still has possession of an item belonging to the buyer. But some sellers are slow shippers, or don't package well, or don't e-mail -- or if they do they use a robot that doesn't answer your inquiries properly. They still don't want to be negged. Some sellers have gotten the idea that because they get to write policy statements in every auction they can make up the rules. In fact, some of them have so many rules they forget to describe their item adequately. Usually, a seller withholds feedback in hopes that the buyer will go first. If the buyer "negs" that seller, the buyer will get a neg in return even if he did everything right. Because of this, I seldom if ever feedback to a seller until he has given me my feedback for receiving my good money in a timely fashion. This means I don't have as many feedbacks as I would otherwise, but neither do those sellers. Feel free to tell the sellers you've earned yours first. Some of them will agree, some will quote policy. REMIND THEM SELLERS AND BUYERS ARE EQUALS on any auction site and that you have a BUYER's policy, which is that you feedback to sellers by referring to your own buyer's feedback list. If they're not on it for acknowledging receipt of your money, you figure they don't care about feedback. Anyway, that's what I do. And my buyer's policy is clearly laid out on my ME page on eBay. When we get them here, I'll do the same. See, eBay was originally a real auction site, one buyer & one seller, both individuals, often exchanging money for a collectible or antique. When people started acting like merchants and direct marketers they started taking liberties that they're really not entitled to.
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The feedback policy has been in debate since its inception. I am not siding either way, but I see most posts here say seller should leave feedback when payment arrives. Isn't the auction still going on? The buyer has to receive the merchandise and be satisfied with it. If not, he should contact the seller and worked it out. When the buyer is satified, then the auction is over. Feedback can then be decided on the (TOTAL) auction experience. Then who leaves feedback first can be decided. I too as a seller on the (BIG) auction site have given more than received. As a buyer I leave feedback when I receive the merchandise, it does not matter if the seller has left me any or not, if not, I do send one kind reminder, if none then, I blow it off.
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  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with previous posts.If I leave + feedback and see none form them, I write them with "Just wanted to let you know I left positive feeback for you on item #123345656"If they put some for you great, if not, let the them go. If you really want to let them have it, tell them you will not bid in the future unless feedback is recieved. Just a thought...PS. Shoot! That reminds me... I forgot to leave some for some stuff I just got myself... Oops!
    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com[This message has been edited by niklasal (edited 03-24-2002).]
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  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    As a seller on three sites Ive found that if you post positive feedback when you get paid, most of the time you wont get any feedback in return. This is especially true on gun auction sites. From now on I post it after I recieve it.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I send my money, I generally say, 'I'll feed back on receipt, assuming you do.' Of course the auction is still in progress when the seller's been paid -- the seller's half. I've often thought it would be funny to say to sellers, 'I'll send you money but insurance on the envelope is optional and I cannot be responsible for it unless you buy insurance.' An auction is a gentleman's agreement. We've probably all been burned to some degree, but I don't think that's a reason for me to become unreasonable. When I sell, I still feed back as soon as I know the money's good. Of course feedback carries an element of risk -- it's supposed to. It's based on the veracity of the information in the auction and on the good faith performance of both parties in getting things wrapped up quickly after auction close. There is no way a seller can achieve all the feedback he is entitled to if he holds out for the buyer to go first. Too many reasonable people will be offended by that idea. Once the buyer has paid up, he is powerless to do anything but wait and trust that HIS property will be delivered without undue delay and well enough packaged not to arrive broken. If a seller has delay problems, all he has to do is e-mail and explain why there will be a delay. Again, the only reason to hold feedback hostage is to try to guarantee that a dissatisfied buyer won't neg. I have frankly considered negging sellers who hold feedback hostage, and I have seen it done. Is it fair to have a poor seller with no negs because he operates this way? By the way, I've seen sellers booted off eBay with 3000 positive feedbacks because they got 20 or 30 negs, so eBay is not entirely on the big feedback's side. Sellers who count on this can become rude, but once a few dissatisfied buyers have reported to eBay chances are the seller will be suspended, then put on probation, and blown away if business practices do not improve. I know, as a seller, that sellers have a big job in customer satisfaction. It has always been my recommendation that if you're selling too much to attain 100% positive feedback, cut back on your business until you can reliably achieve 100% satisfied customers. But hey, I used to work for Disney, and the customer was God over there. Say what you like about them, they really knew how to run a service. And I've been infected with that kind of passion for superior performance. (Which is one reason I'm currently unemployed - it can be tough to fit in some workplaces when you're principled).
    "The 2nd Amendment is about defense, not hunting. Long live the gun shows, and reasonable access to FFLs. Join the NRA -- I'm a Life Member."
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I apologize for the duplicate posts and the typos that appear in them. The server was acting up and it appeared these messages did not get through. Please excuse, with respect.
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Offerer, you can go back into one of them and delete it if you want.
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  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To clarify my position, a lot of buyers seem to forget about feedback once they get their goods. Im not holding good feedback hostage. Im holding a reply hostage. Half the time I dont even know if the items arrived except that the buyer isnt e-mailing me like crazy asking where it is. Holding feedback to me means the seller will take the time to give me some feedback.
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  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    As someone who is primarily a buyer on online auctions, I am kind of suprised about all the sellers complaining that feedback is not being left for them. I, as a buyer, am constantly e-mailing sellers friendly "reminders" about leaving feedback on our transaction. "Perhaps you forgot about our transaction, but if you would be so kind and leave me feedback..."
    Happiness is a warm gun
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  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Me too Salzo, I have not bought a lot, but when I have the sellers have lost all interest when they have put the item in the mail. I just figured I was lucky they didn't lose all interest when they got the check. It has always required a friendly reminder to get them to post.If they were all like offerer we would have it made. Maybe solve his employment problem too!
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You know, I appreciate the fact that everyone is concerned about it. Maybe we can do a better job than those on eBay of doing feedback when it's earned. After all, as participants on Gunbroker we have a chance to develop something here that works in a more friendly fashion and benefit's from eBayers' mistakes. One thing I'd like to see go away is the tendency to allow auction items to remain on sale in the shop. Auction items should be held for the week of the auction (in my humble opinion). On eBay, I think that's in the contract.
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  • martzkj@msn.commartzkj@msn.com Member Posts: 582 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    HI, What burns me up is when I sell something, I leave feedback as soon as I get the money. Then the buyer gets his goods e-mails me with how happy they are and never give me feedback.
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  • IconoclastIconoclast Member Posts: 10,515 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Reading salzo's last post in which he indicates he's usually the buyer and has received fewer feedback posts than he has made - and similar comments from others here and in past threads - leads me to offer this postulate:"Regardless of which side of the transaction where one is normally found, a party who is conscientious in posting feedback will almost certainly receive fewer positive feedbacks than he will himself post."Human nature, I suppose. As Casey Stengel put it: "Nice guys finish last." I'm not going to change my behaviors to descend to the level of those who cannot be bothered, whether I am the buyer or seller.
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  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Icono --I do believe you've hit it on the head.
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  • Big TimberBig Timber Member Posts: 103 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    LIKTOSHOOT, My thoughts exactly, I've been buying and selling for years on an auction site and this feedback deal is bull$hit. I've sold brand new items to buyers, given them pos feedback the day I received the money, and then never received feedback from them. BRAND NEW ITEM, shipped it the day after receiving the money. If that doesn't deserve feedback then I must have the wrong interpretation of the system. And if you give neg feedback, follow-up with the auction site and let them know of the problem.BT
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